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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 3:38:12 PM   
MistressJude


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

This situation is probably going to get much worse. Many people in new york don't drive. At all. So they aren't mobile. Many had their homes flooded or otherwise destroyed. So it's cold and many don't have clothes anymore. No shelter. And not many options for getting to somewhere they can find them. Other that walking or a bike. (depending on how fast they can get the transit system back to normal).

And the big thing. The northeast is closely packed. Hard to get tractor trailers in to deliver. And finding parking for all the supplies coming in from all over the country is going to be a nightmare. Add to that most businesses only keep 3 days of inventory to keep their taxes down. After 3 days you are fucked if you don't have trucks on the way.

It will all come down to logistics.

As far as them being prepared, they did have enough time to prepare but the northeast doesn't get hit by storms the way Florida does. Many of hem wouldn't even know how to prepare. It would be like telling people in southern California to prepare for a blizzard. They don't really have he experience.


A lot of the mass trans in the Long Island/NYC is operational again. However, a friend was taking the bus from New Hyde Park to Queens (normally 20 mins maybe?) and she left at 8am and didn't get there til 3pm! Some of my family have gone back to work, some using the rail so that's getting started again, no word on the subways in the city yet though especially the ones closer to the shore portion of the island.

Any standard rule of preparedness is 3 days minimum! Minimum! And that's just basic survival gear. Besides having an emergency kit people should have bugout bags so if the kits are lost or evac is immediate you still have things.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 4:24:58 PM   
PunisherNOLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressJude


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

This situation is probably going to get much worse. Many people in new york don't drive. At all. So they aren't mobile. Many had their homes flooded or otherwise destroyed. So it's cold and many don't have clothes anymore. No shelter. And not many options for getting to somewhere they can find them. Other that walking or a bike. (depending on how fast they can get the transit system back to normal).

And the big thing. The northeast is closely packed. Hard to get tractor trailers in to deliver. And finding parking for all the supplies coming in from all over the country is going to be a nightmare. Add to that most businesses only keep 3 days of inventory to keep their taxes down. After 3 days you are fucked if you don't have trucks on the way.

It will all come down to logistics.

As far as them being prepared, they did have enough time to prepare but the northeast doesn't get hit by storms the way Florida does. Many of hem wouldn't even know how to prepare. It would be like telling people in southern California to prepare for a blizzard. They don't really have he experience.


A lot of the mass trans in the Long Island/NYC is operational again. However, a friend was taking the bus from New Hyde Park to Queens (normally 20 mins maybe?) and she left at 8am and didn't get there til 3pm! Some of my family have gone back to work, some using the rail so that's getting started again, no word on the subways in the city yet though especially the ones closer to the shore portion of the island.

Any standard rule of preparedness is 3 days minimum! Minimum! And that's just basic survival gear. Besides having an emergency kit people should have bugout bags so if the kits are lost or evac is immediate you still have things.


In Louisiana they tell us to be prepared to be without essesntial services for 10 days. Little tricks such as filling your bathtub with water can help with the water problem in the event the water system is contaminated or unavailable. But then again, in areas such as Southern Louisiana hurricane preparation is a year long happening.

I've heard mentioned that after being told to get ready for so many years that the warnings tend to start falling on deaf ears. That's very true as before Katrina, the last storm to hit Southern Louisiana was Betsy in 1965, and a very near miss from Camille in 1969. Many of the people who stayed behind when Katrina approached did so because of the complacent feeling of not being hit with the big one in 40 years. Or in many cases, weren't around the last time it happened. The local governments are always preparing for the worst case scenario, and they should.

To the OP, yes I think that hurricane preparedness DOES fall on the individual in a large part. While the local government cannot make you leave your house when they declare a "mandatory evacuation," they will also tell you right up front that if the worst happens and you stay behind to ride it out, no one is going to be able to get to you right away after the storm passes. Your city ceases to exist as it did before the storm, and it takes time to get the essential functions back up and running.

I've seen on the news the talk of having to wait on line three hours to get those MREs and water, as well as waiting in long lines for gasoline. I'm sorry to say that from first hand experience, it's par for the course. Actually, in a city the size the New York, those standing in three hour lines should consider themselves lucky it's not longer.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 5:08:10 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The loss of life and the destruction of property from Hurricane Sandy is lamentable. But the images of long lines of cars approaching gasoline pumps and the voices of people on TV complaining they need food and water, raises the question of individual responsibility. It's not like they didn't have sufficient advanced warning. So, what's going on here? Was the lack of individual preparedness because they haven't experienced storms in a long time in NJ/NY/CT? They have had a nor'easter now and again. Are they just oblivious? Or does the blame lie with the surprising magnitude of the storm? What do you think? What's your experience?


You may not have noticed this but....THERE'S NO FUCKING ELECTRICITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See, gasoline (and diesel) pumps....run on electricity.

It's that same thingie that makes your TV make all those moving images.....

Electricity....little electrons and shit.

Remember all those wires and shit that run next to the freeway? I'm sure you've seen them before....those are the wires that carry all those electrons and shit.

See...they make shit run....like gas pumps and shit.

I'm available for discernment, 6 - 5 pm, Pacific.


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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 5:18:47 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Lookie get a grip ffs. Vincents point was exactly that, should people have been prepared PRIOR to the storm hitting.

I know logic is hardly your strong suit but even so.

Vincent, lets not forget many cars were submerged and most supermarkets, at least in the UK, rely on a daily delivery service. Even the emergency response people had supplies flooded out. No doubt people could have made some preparation but in the worst hit areas, you needed to live above the flood level and have plenty of tins of food that you didnt need to cook at hand.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 5:25:06 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

See, gasoline (and diesel) pumps....run on electricity.

It's that same thingie that makes your TV make all those moving images.....

Electricity....little electrons and shit.

Gee, Lookie. Like you are telling me something I don't know.
Of course there is no electricity to run the gas pumps.
That's why we prepare in advance.
Gas fill up before the storm. FFS!

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 5:38:35 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Vincent, lets not forget many cars were submerged and most supermarkets, at least in the UK, rely on a daily delivery service. Even the emergency response people had supplies flooded out. No doubt people could have made some preparation but in the worst hit areas, you needed to live above the flood level and have plenty of tins of food that you didnt need to cook at hand.

That was pretty much my point, Polite. Preparedness.
There was plenty of warning. We go through this every June in Florida, getting ready.
Of course, if your car is submerged you will not be in line for gas (petrol) Well, Lookie might be And of course, if the roof blows off your house you have a serious problem. So many rooves were blown away during Andrew that new construction standards were developed to change their configuration.
In a flood plain? Go to a shelter when the storm approaches.
You guys have your groceries delivered? Jeez. And Americans are accused of being lazy and spoiled. I'm jealous. Actually, the market in my neighborhood tried that but failed. We are too cheap maybe.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 5:43:09 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Although we can have groceries delivered, I dont, I preefer to see what I am buying.

Our stores have a high turnover and i meant "they" have their gorceries delivered daily, for the most part.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 5:44:43 PM   
vincentML


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I can't imagine how you guys and gals in the mid-west prepare for tornadoes. Would love to hear from you.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 5:44:47 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lookie get a grip ffs. Vincents point was exactly that, should people have been prepared PRIOR to the storm hitting.

I know logic is hardly your strong suit but even so.

Vincent, lets not forget many cars were submerged and most supermarkets, at least in the UK, rely on a daily delivery service. Even the emergency response people had supplies flooded out. No doubt people could have made some preparation but in the worst hit areas, you needed to live above the flood level and have plenty of tins of food that you didnt need to cook at hand.


Okay...I can accept that....coulda been the.....(not allowed to say).....

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 5:46:35 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Although we can have groceries delivered, I dont, I preefer to see what I am buying.

Our stores have a high turnover and i meant "they" have their gorceries delivered daily, for the most part.

sorry, I misunderstood. I do know someone in the Midlands who has her groceries delivered to her home by the store.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 6:15:13 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Although we can have groceries delivered, I dont, I preefer to see what I am buying.

Our stores have a high turnover and i meant "they" have their gorceries delivered daily, for the most part.

sorry, I misunderstood. I do know someone in the Midlands who has her groceries delivered to her home by the store.



In california we have major chain markets who deliver...you order what you want on line and in a few hours it is at your front door. We also have some grocery stores who have a bus that will pick you up and take you home after you have finished shopping. There is of course a minimum purchase I think it is about fifty dollars. No they will not come pick me up . I live about thirty miles from town and the last two miles are dirt.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 6:36:19 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Are they just oblivious? Or does the blame lie with the surprising magnitude of the storm? What do you think? What's your experience?


Imo,.. its like using condoms, people dont think they will get knocked up, that it wont happen to them.. its only when the news tells them there is a hurricane coming that they finally wake up and might go to the store and buy a few things... but many people find empty shelves by then..

Imo, there are few places on earth that are disaster free.. 100 year floods.. droughts.. tornados.. tropical storms,.. etc. There are areas of prairie that have had disasters (& will again someday),.. Quebec had a very bad ice storm with people having no power for 3 or more weeks.. and at least with storms, there is usually some amount of warning.. you dont get warnings in earthquake country..

People arent prepared, they are playing a form of russian roulette.. but that goes for nearly everyone cuz few people have bombshelters and such.. when you buy your house, do you actually know if it can last thru a hurricane? if so, what category? your home might be ok with 75 hour winds but not 150hour winds.. how many people buy or rent in flood zones? People dont think in those terms, they think in terms of how big are the rooms and how purdy the house looks.. how many public buildings cant withstand a bad earthquake? that goes for schools where yer kids spend thier days at, do you know if its been upgraded and to what level? if you live in an apartment (like much of NY), how strong is the building? does it have a back-up generator?.. How many people have those pills that can make sure stored water is safe to drink? even if you have extra food, you need water (a filled swimming pool can be handy)..

And really, how many people even know what to do if their apartment or house catches fire? few people have an escape plan for a fire or teach their kids about what to do or what not to do..

Part of the problem too is that it costs money to be prepared.. how many people have a generator or any back up if the power goes out? a generator costs money.. hurricane windows cost money.. buying a hurricane proof house costs money.. even if you try to buy or build a better house, is it enough? how far do you have to go above the building code? so a person's or family's economic reality comes into play also, a great deal of it is that, imo..

I saw that Alec Baldwin on tv, his wife and him went to a safe hotel (cuz he's rich and has the money & can afford that) and his wife and him were bringing groceries to people that live in their apartment building (which i think had no power), those people that couldnt afford to find better shelter.. so money is a huge factor in why many people arent prepared.. If you dont have the money are you going to spend your life worrying about something that might not ever happen to you?

It is something that concerns me (I have gone to eartquake seminars & done some research, etc) but what a person does to be prepared depends on their geography (& those disaster possibilities) and personal finances and of course, thier priorities.. So, imo, a lot of reasons why people arent prepared..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 11/2/2012 6:38:25 PM >

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 7:30:39 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

It is something that concerns me (I have gone to eartquake seminars & done some research, etc) but what a person does to be prepared depends on their geography (& those disaster possibilities) and personal finances and of course, thier priorities.. So, imo, a lot of reasons why people arent prepared..

Much wisdom in what you say. And you can never know if your roof will withstand the wind. Florida rooves (roofs?) were tied down with steel bands embedded in poured concrete . . . and that was not enough.

My point in the OP however was addressed to the most minimal preps . . full tank of gas for the car, potable water, and non-perishable food. I find the long gas lines baffling.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 11/2/2012 7:31:07 PM >

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 8:05:32 PM   
graceadieu


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From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I don't think people on the coast expected it to be as bad as it was. And also a lot of people in NYC live in a small apartment and have no car and rely on public transit, so it's going to be a little hard for them to prepare adequately for a hurricane. I mean, they can lug home a few gallons of water, some granola bars, and a flashlight on the bus and tape their windows... but stocking up on 2 weeks worth of water and non-perishable food and picking up a generator, fuel and a camp stove is probably going to be a little tough. And now the subway is shut down, so they can't even leave or go very far for supplies.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 8:14:28 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

It is something that concerns me (I have gone to eartquake seminars & done some research, etc) but what a person does to be prepared depends on their geography (& those disaster possibilities) and personal finances and of course, thier priorities.. So, imo, a lot of reasons why people arent prepared..

Much wisdom in what you say. And you can never know if your roof will withstand the wind. Florida rooves (roofs?) were tied down with steel bands embedded in poured concrete . . . and that was not enough.

My point in the OP however was addressed to the most minimal preps . . full tank of gas for the car, potable water, and non-perishable food. I find the long gas lines baffling.

well,.. each person has their own idea of what "being prepared" means.. especially if they have had no real experience with being in a disaster before.. How many people were prepared for this depression/financial disaster (the last one was in the dirty 30s) and most people werent even born then.. I have never been in a bad nature caused disaster.. I have felt the earth below my feet shake in a fairly big earthquake (the damage was in Seattle so not that close to me) and i have been in some tropical storms but thats it, never more than losing power for a few hours.. The earthquake made me realize how unprepared I was tho..

but i think the news said something like 30 people died in this hurricane (I could be off on the number as i dont read or watch the news).. i dont know if any deaths could have been prevented or prepared for tho.. sometimes people are in the wrong place at the wrong time, circumstances beyond anyone's control..

and too, there is the ever growing expectation that the govt will step in and "fix it" all, almost instantly, and other such unrealistic expectations.. be it nature disaster or nearly anything else that people can look to the govt to regulate and "fix'..


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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 8:29:55 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

but i think the news said something like 30 people died in this hurricane


http://www.examiner.com/article/more-bodies-found-staten-island-hurricane-sandy-death-toll-rises-to-102

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 9:04:38 PM   
FMRFGOPGAL


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The loss of life and the destruction of property from Hurricane Sandy is lamentable. But the images of long lines of cars approaching gasoline pumps and the voices of people on TV complaining they need food and water, raises the question of individual responsibility. It's not like they didn't have sufficient advanced warning. So, what's going on here? Was the lack of individual preparedness because they haven't experienced storms in a long time in NJ/NY/CT? They have had a nor'easter now and again. Are they just oblivious? Or does the blame lie with the surprising magnitude of the storm? What do you think? What's your experience?


A  Nor'easter or two? Vincent you clearly aren't a New Englander. Most of us don't even pull our dinghies out for 'nor'easter' and this wasn't a 'nor'easter'.
  But that aside, I saw plenty of evidence on the news that people were boarding up and to a large extent evacuating pretty much everywhere the storm tracked. Could municipalities have have hardened the edge of the flood plane? Very doubtful considering the shear size of this storm. You are aware that Sandy broke the records for lowest barometric pressure on record and largest surface area, right?
   Tell me what the acceptable amount of time for all communities on the east coast from say Northern South Carolina to say the Merrimack River to get dug in and sand bagged? Because when there was more than 3 days, that was the potential landfall scope. And I SERIOUSLY doubt the Jersey Shore could have done SQUAT. go online and look at the crushed and overturned houses. I think everyone is astonished that a storm with the kind of wind speeds Sandy had to do so much damage. The thing was (and mind you I was on an outer arm of the storm) this storm moved more water than most of the hurricanes I have lived through.
And it's been our family tradition that anytime a big storm darkens the the Narraganset, Dad and I  meet up at the house, do what we have to to the boats, and close the cast iron shutters.
I think I have road out at least 8 hurricanes and at least as many serious tropical depressions.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 9:10:40 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Although we can have groceries delivered, I dont, I preefer to see what I am buying.



You should give it a whirl. I'm going to - people I know who buy online and get it delivered save a ton of money.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 9:36:24 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Hurricane Hugo caused 34 fatalities (most by electrocution or drowning) in the Caribbean and 27 in South Carolina,[2] left nearly 100,000 homeless, and resulted in $10 billion (1989 USD) in damage overall, making it the most damaging hurricane ever recorded at the time.

At least 1,833 people died in the hurricane (Katrina) and subsequent floods, making it the deadliest U.S. hurricane since the 1928 Okeechobee hurricane; total property damage was estimated at $81 billion (2005 USD),[3] nearly triple the damage brought by Hurricane Andrew in 1992

Overall, Andrew caused 65 fatalities and $26 billion (1992 USD) in damage, and it is currently the third costliest hurricane in U.S. history, behind only Hurricane Katrina in 2005 and Hurricane Ike in 2008. Due to the destruction, the name was retired in the spring of 1993.

Costliest Hurricanes Atlantic

$108.0 Hurricane Katrina[1] 2005
$50.0 Hurricane Sandy[2] 2012
$37.6 Hurricane Ike[3][4] 2008
$29.2 Hurricane Wilma[5][6][7][8] 2005
$26.5 Hurricane Andrew[9] 1992
$18.6 Hurricane Charley[10][11] 2004
$18.1 Hurricane Ivan[12][13] 2004
$16.6 Hurricane Irene[14] 2011
$15.2 Hurricane Agnes[15] 1972
$14.1 Hurricane Hugo[16][17] 1989

And, guess what folks... Sandy was a category 1

We never left Myrtle Beach, Sandy Hook or Cape May for a Cat 1. Its considered a rain event with wind. Who the hell thought this would become the second most expensive hurricane in history,

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 10:02:06 PM   
FMRFGOPGAL


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And, guess what folks... Sandy was a category 1

We never left Myrtle Beach, Sandy Hook or Cape May for a Cat 1. Its considered a rain event with wind. Who the hell thought this would become the second most expensive hurricane in history,


I couldn't agree more with the "WTF????" reaction to Sandy. Cat1s are entertainment up here, and when the cove in front of my house started exploding and a 20' vertical column of water was blasting straight up into the air for as long as a minute at times off the "Swimmin Rock" (middle of the cove, that's what we called it growing up. It's just a 5' oval shaped rock that sticks about a foot out of the water at high tide... Dad actually was worried something would happen to us. And nothing scares him.
  I can't imagine what this looked like in Tea Neck and A.C.

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