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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 10:05:56 PM   
DomMeinCT


Posts: 2355
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		General reply...
I'm an experienced camper and have lots of equipment (coolers, lanterns water containers, etc.), filled the cars, filled the bathtubs for flushing toilets, stocked up on drinking water and food easily cooked on grills/gas stovetops, etc. Three days without electricity this time wasn't bad, considering the last two storms totalled 14 days without power/water/heat.

When you hear that people are running out of water, it's not that they didn't stock up, but they most likely didn't anticipate how much water they needed, particularly for flushing toilets when there is no water pressure in buildings served by city water. Or they thought about drinking water, but didn't calculate the additional gallons to boil water for washing or making pasta (if they had a gas stove).

And in some cases, there just wasn't enough food to stock up on, even a couple of days before the storm. Here's the bread aisle in my town of 20,000 grocery store 2 days before the storm (there were no deliveries to restock the entire weekend, as there normally would have been). In some places, there may not have been enough food or water for people to stock up on more than they were able. The local warehouse store still doesn't have a single case of water in stock.

I am NOT making excuses for folks who were unprepared, but there is a disjoint with people understanding how much they really needed as well as an understanding by others how much might not have been available even days before the storm.

(ETA: drats, pic won't load....CM tells me it's too large.)

< Message edited by DomMeinCT -- 11/2/2012 10:09:59 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/2/2012 10:15:53 PM   
FMRFGOPGAL


Posts: 763
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomMeinCT

General reply...
I'm an experienced camper and have lots of equipment (coolers, lanterns water containers, etc.), filled the cars, filled the bathtubs for flushing toilets, stocked up on drinking water and food easily cooked on grills/gas stovetops, etc. Three days without electricity this time wasn't bad, considering the last two storms totalled 14 days without power/water/heat.



Each storm got you 14 days in the grid's penalty box or both together?
Either way That Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.
Glad  you caught a break this time.

(in reply to DomMeinCT)
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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 12:07:18 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

You may not have noticed this but....THERE'S NO FUCKING ELECTRICITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See, gasoline (and diesel) pumps....run on electricity.

It's that same thingie that makes your TV make all those moving images.....

Electricity....little electrons and shit.

Remember all those wires and shit that run next to the freeway? I'm sure you've seen them before....those are the wires that carry all those electrons and shit.

See...they make shit run....like gas pumps and shit.

I'm available for discernment, 6 - 5 pm, Pacific.



Oh, you just now, after innumerable instances of natural catastrophia, that have besot other regions on a semi-regular basis, through decades, I mean, just now, noticed that power outage is an immediate and natural consequence.

I congratulate you on your keen powers of observation, sharp discernment, and laser perception of that aspect of large natural disruptions.

I was with out power for 6 weeks after hurricane Hugo, my sister, with three kids, for four.

A large ice storm some 8 years later left 2 million in NC with out power ("electricity") for 2-4 weeks in the middle of winter.

Natural disaster 101: no power: first thing to go. Count weeks till it's restored.


You're welcome, Mr. Large-Red-Caps-Stating-The-Obvious.


PS

In nearly every instance, the gas pumps and grocery stores had power 1-2 days after the worst, however many weeks it might have taken for every household to obtain that.

Elsewise, people might have starved. There's a reason for the order in which things are restored. We needed grocery stores and gas pumps and traffic lights to get our supplies and get them to each other.

Sorry, but the North Easterners are the biggest weenies I've ever seen, on this one.

I can see, also, that Calis are even more clueless.



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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 12:22:18 AM   
absolutchocolat


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Status: offline 		never mind, trying not to be a meanie today.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 12:57:44 AM   
Edwynn


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That's OK, I'll say it for you; you think I'm an A-hole, uncaring, etc.

I was merely responding to a poster that thought he was a hero for pointing out an obvious manifestation of a large natural event.

I certainly do feel terrible about the 80-100 homes that were fire-blasted away by the storm, but if we think about it, the people's houses that were completely flooded suffered essentially the same consequence.


What I was referring to was the response to, not the effect of, the storm.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 11/3/2012 1:00:02 AM >

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 6:31:57 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

~FS
I can't imagine how you guys and gals in the mid-west prepare for tornadoes. Would love to hear from you.


Shelves are cleaned off, and there is a big run on toilet paper, believe me.  Check the batteries in the radio, flashlights, stock up on them.

We pick up the yard, and get in the basement. Preferably with a flagon of wine.


_____________________________

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 6:34:15 AM   
ElChupa


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Status: offline 		The "new normal" is everybody sits around with their thumbs up their asses waiting for Dear Leader to give them something. You know, dependent slaves. And they like it. Pretty pathetic.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 6:56:38 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		It is been pervasive in the media as of late the craven corporate capitulists that have co-opted the republican party from lowest to highest are the ones doing that, and only for corporations.



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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 6:58:07 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

To the OP, yes I think that hurricane preparedness DOES fall on the individual in a large part. While the local government cannot make you leave your house when they declare a "mandatory evacuation," they will also tell you right up front that if the worst happens and you stay behind to ride it out, no one is going to be able to get to you right away after the storm passes. Your city ceases to exist as it did before the storm, and it takes time to get the essential functions back up and running.

Punisher . . . that's really the basic point that people are hard pressed to learn even after the images from Katrina.

quote:

And also a lot of people in NYC live in a small apartment and have no car and rely on public transit, so it's going to be a little hard for them to prepare adequately for a hurricane.

Graceadieu . . . excellent point. It must be hell in the Projects with no water or electricity. I saw accounts this morniing of people defecating in the hallways.

quote:

A Nor'easter or two? Vincent you clearly aren't a New Englander. Most of us don't even pull our dinghies out for 'nor'easter' and this wasn't a 'nor'easter'.
[SNIP]
Tell me what the acceptable amount of time for all communities on the east coast from say Northern South Carolina to say the Merrimack River to get dug in and sand bagged? Because when there was more than 3 days, that was the potential landfall scope. And I SERIOUSLY doubt the Jersey Shore could have done SQUAT. go online and look at the crushed and overturned houses. I think everyone is astonished that a storm with the kind of wind speeds Sandy had to do so much damage. The thing was (and mind you I was on an outer arm of the storm) this storm moved more water than most of the hurricanes I have lived through.

FGG . . . actually, I am a Jersey boy. I lived the first half of my life through a number of blizzards and hurricanes up there. I mourn the destruction of the Jersey Shore. Fond memories of youth. I have no brief with what the communities did. I understand the uniqueness of this storm. What gnawed at me were the images of long lines at the gas pumps and the folks on Staten Island crying just two or three days past the storm that they were not getting water and food. I presume these folks still had a home else they would have been in a shelter. Maybe I'm wrong but they didn't appear to be camped out in the debree. As Punisher said: "Your city ceases to exist as it did before the storm."

It's all pretty freakin sad and humbling.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 7:05:39 AM   
vincentML


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Status: offline 		NM . . . I misunderstood your post, Edwynn.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 11/3/2012 7:13:36 AM >

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 7:11:16 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElChupa

The "new normal" is everybody sits around with their thumbs up their asses waiting for Dear Leader to give them something. You know, dependent slaves. And they like it. Pretty pathetic.

Ah yes, a not unexpected politicalization of tragedy from the woeful Right . . . as feeble as collecting cans of food purchased earlier by Romney's campaign staff.

Do feel free to post when you have something significant to contribute . . . no, no . . before hell freezes over if possible.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 7:15:01 AM   
Toysinbabeland


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Joined: 3/4/2012
From: the other end of Cx's leash
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quote:




You're welcome, Mr. Large-Red-Caps-Stating-The-Obvious.




” REAL AMERICAN HERO......”

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*Smitten fox* that's all you need.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 8:05:09 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

and there is a big run on toilet paper, believe me

sorry I missed the meaning of this comment the first read thru

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 8:20:59 AM   
Edwynn


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Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

~FS
I can't imagine how you guys and gals in the mid-west prepare for tornadoes. Would love to hear from you.


Shelves are cleaned off, and there is a big run on toilet paper, believe me.  Check the batteries in the radio, flashlights, stock up on them.

We pick up the yard, and get in the basement. Preferably with a flagon of wine.



That's exactly what used to be done in the South, upon the weatherman predicting 1/2 inch of snow tomorrow.

Granted, it would be ridiculous and highly cost ineffective to purchase and maintain snow removal equipment for an event that used to happen once every three years, but nobody figured out that 2 days, at most, of bad road conditions did not materially change things from people's normal 2-3 day routine of grocery shopping to begin with.

In my former life as an audio persona techishia, I remember a performance of a 'rogue' comedy version of The Nutcracker Ballet, by the wonderful, innovative, and very talented NC Dance Theatre whereupon after the fake snow started to lightly fall on the stage, a ballerina appeared from stage left pushing a grocery cart full of milk and bread slowly across the stage, en pointe.

In any case, we used to have a 'real' snow (5 or more inches) once every few years, occasionally twice in a year . Now it's once every 20 years, but we get these whomping ice storms every 8 years instead.

No climate change here, boss.



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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 8:46:15 AM   
kalikshama


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Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Costliest Hurricanes Atlantic

$108.0 Hurricane Katrina[1] 2005
$50.0 Hurricane Sandy[2] 2012
$37.6 Hurricane Ike[3][4] 2008
$29.2 Hurricane Wilma[5][6][7][8] 2005
$26.5 Hurricane Andrew[9] 1992
$18.6 Hurricane Charley[10][11] 2004
$18.1 Hurricane Ivan[12][13] 2004
$16.6 Hurricane Irene[14] 2011
$15.2 Hurricane Agnes[15] 1972
$14.1 Hurricane Hugo[16][17] 1989

And, guess what folks... Sandy was a category 1

We never left Myrtle Beach, Sandy Hook or Cape May for a Cat 1. Its considered a rain event with wind. Who the hell thought this would become the second most expensive hurricane in history,


Wilma was a Cat 1 storm too - but the tornadoes she spawned did a lot of damage. I was out of power for 5 days and water for part of one day. (Not sure how I got water without power.) The no water was the most inconvenient part.

I think I was on the grid of either the hospital to the west or the police station to the north, so got my power back relatively quickly. My boss had no power for three weeks, but he had two generators (one of which was stolen from his yard in a nice neighborhood) and had filled up his gas cans.

I lived in an apartment complex and several of us pooled our resources so we had stoves and light and coolers and food and water and radio.

I had filled up my gas tank ahead of time and the only reason I didn't make through the time of gas lines was because we went to the beach every day, mostly for pleasure, but we also collected a few friends from their high rise condos.

I did have a car charger for my phone, but the cell towers went down for a few days too. I think Comcast was the slowest utility to get back up.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 9:15:50 AM   
kalikshama


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Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

When you hear that people are running out of water, it's not that they didn't stock up, but they most likely didn't anticipate how much water they needed, particularly for flushing toilets when there is no water pressure in buildings served by city water. Or they thought about drinking water, but didn't calculate the additional gallons to boil water for washing or making pasta (if they had a gas stove).


This was all clearly available on The Weather Channel and I'm sure every news station had a link as well.

But I think people who have not lived through it cannot conceptualize it.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 9:20:14 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

But I think people who have not lived through it cannot conceptualize it.


I agree. Also, just because someone has lived through one kind of storm, that doesnt make them an expert on all storms.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 9:25:30 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		My motto is to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 9:38:22 AM   
absolutchocolat


Posts: 1392
Status: offline 		i don't think you're a jerk, i just didn't appreciate the generalities. i live in california. in my lifetime, there have been extreme flooding, a huge earthquake (like freeways collapsing, building crumbling huge), mudslides that destroy homes, brush fires in folks' backyards' and so on. so we're not "clueless" about natural disasters...we just have different ones and the huge one we worry about isn't seasonal. we're all on pins and needles waiting for an '89 style earthquake.

yes, we should all prepare for emergencies. i think this disaster can be a huge learning experience for everyone -- those of us in the midst of it and those of us on the sidelines. rather than roasting the regions you think have it so easy, it may be more fruitful to offer tips and advice on surviving. just my two cents.

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RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/3/2012 9:45:45 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		The blame lies with the fact that no one can "prepare" for devastation of this magnitude.  I'm really getting more and more disgusted with the idea that people should have "prepared" for this.

Why are people waiting on line for gas?
Because there's a gas shortage.

Why didn't people prepare before the storm?
They DID prepare.  You can't "stock up" on gas.  You can fill your tank, maybe a few containers, and that's it.

Why are they using gas when they know there's a shortage?
Because they have no choice.  There's STILL over a million people without power, and if they're running a generator, they need about five gallons of gas a day.  Or maybe they have a job.  The only way for them to get to their job is to drive.

Why can't they take public transportation?
In many places there is no public transportation.  In many places public transportation has been shut down too.

Unless you've been out here to see the damage yourself, you can't imagine what these people are going through.  So fill up on a few facts before you start blaming people for their own misfortune.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The loss of life and the destruction of property from Hurricane Sandy is lamentable. But the images of long lines of cars approaching gasoline pumps and the voices of people on TV complaining they need food and water, raises the question of individual responsibility. It's not like they didn't have sufficient advanced warning. So, what's going on here? Was the lack of individual preparedness because they haven't experienced storms in a long time in NJ/NY/CT? They have had a nor'easter now and again. Are they just oblivious? Or does the blame lie with the surprising magnitude of the storm? What do you think? What's your experience?

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