RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/4/2012 9:51:28 PM

nameonhold

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Congratulations, but I assume you realize that, say, the tens of millions of people who live in apartment buildings cannot prepare in this manner?

Or is your deeper point that you just don't give a fuck about them?

I would agree that many apartment dwellers could not prepare to the extent I've described. But I honestly can't buy into the notion that anyone is bitching "no food" after less than a week. One week's worth of groceries is not a lot of groceries.

Now I can't imagine how you might have gleaned from my epistle that I "don't give a fuck about other people." Although, I will note that if I were less prepared, that wouldn't help other people. It would actually add to their burden of having to share limited resources with a larger number of unprepared individuals. I'm reasonably certain that doesn't make sense.

If you re-read my post, I was more than generous in pointing my fingers at the crappy utility companies who couldn't keep the lights turned on in a lot of parts of this country if their life depended on it. My friend, they folded the tent at the Rural Electrification Administration some 20 years ago. But sometimes, service is so unreliable it might as well be back in the days when the Rural Electrification Project was just started back in 1935. Electrical service in rural areas sucked back then. It still sucks now. In many rural areas in this country, you learn to be self-reliant or you live without. Self-reliance is NOT the same as saying "fuck everyone else."

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 101

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/4/2012 10:10:14 PM

Kaliko

Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: nameonhold
In my area, 100% of everyone is on a private well. If you have a backup generator, you can power your well pump. Me, in addition, I had a hand pump installed. At my house, you could get 210 gallons of water PER DAY if you want to.

From my experience, I dont trust wells.. (I dont trust city water either but i trust it more than well water).. so much stuff, toxins, animal fecal matter, etc can get into well water.. I think thats part of the controversy over fracking, factory farms, pesticides, etc.. I grew up on a farm in the middle of no where and there was apparently bacteria or something that the water needed to be treated for..

..just outta curiousity, do you get your well water tested regularly and if so, how often and what does it get tested for? do you treat or filter your water in any way?

My town is entirely on well water and I don't trust it. It was tested two years ago and it's not up to par, but I don't use it for cooking and drinking. I use bottled water. It's time for a test again, at any rate. I believe it should be tested every six months.

My neighbor (who shares the same well as me) even has one of those new-fangled electronic zapper thingies to clean her water before it reaches her tap, and she still won't use it.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 102

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/4/2012 10:12:01 PM

nameonhold

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

From my experience, I dont trust wells.. (I dont trust city water either but i trust it more than well water).. so much stuff, toxins, animal fecal matter, etc can get into well water.. I think thats part of the controversy over fracking, factory farms, pesticides, etc.. I grew up on a farm in the middle of no where and there was apparently bacteria or something that the water needed to be treated for..

..just outta curiousity, do you get your well water tested regularly and if so, how often and what does it get tested for? do you treat or filter your water in any way?

I appreciate that not all wells are good wells. But in some parts of the country, it's well water or do without. There are NO alternatives.

Undoubtedly, many wells are polluted for the multitude of reasons you've cited, and some more besides. But generally, the deeper your well, the better off you are. If you have a dug well of say 100 feet, no doubt, you're going to have a problem at some point. Even road salt will pollute a well that shallow. At very least, those folks will suck up sand that is just going to send their dishwashers to a very early grave.

On the other hand, drilled wells of more than 1,000 feet, don't frequently have problems. All the "crud" you're talking about just really has a tough, tough time leaching through that many feet of soil.

Me, I do NOT filter or treat my water in any manner. I've had it tested several times over the 20+ years I've been here and I always get the same answer, "You've got three things down in your well Sir. Two H's. One O. H2O." It's not even hard. Extremely low levels of every damn thing they test for. Of course, my well is drilled to about 1,200+ feet. And as you pointed out, if you treat the land properly, you don't end up with a polluted well.

Drives me crazy when I have a drink with ice cubes in it when I'm in the big city. I can literally smell the chlorine in the melting ice cubes. It smells disgusting to my "well water nose."

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 103

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/4/2012 10:13:04 PM

Kaliko

Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nameonhold

quote:

So for 2 weeks we'd have needed 210 gallons of water. Wow. No wonder people weren't prepared - there's no way we could have stockpiled that much, even with filling the bathtub.

In many areas it isn't hard being completely prepared. In my area, 100% of everyone is on a private well. If you have a backup generator, you can power your well pump. Me, in addition, I had a hand pump installed. At my house, you could get 210 gallons of water PER DAY if you want to.

Thank you! I have wanted to install a hand pump and people think I'm an alarmist. (Not for drinking - see my post above - but in a pinch, sure...I'd drink it if I had to. It's just a little arsenic.)

I think your preparations are admirable. I've long wanted to be prepared in that manner. To date, I don't even have a reliable heat source. The ice storm was awful. (I'm in New Hampshire. When the shit hits the fan, I'm headed over to your place.)

(in reply to nameonhold)

Post #: 104

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/4/2012 10:27:59 PM

nameonhold

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL

PLEASE Post some links... Before Election Day.
Thanks in advance.

This link is directly to the LDS website: http://www.lds.org/topics/food-storage They urge all Mormons to build a 3 month food supply and to keep it rotated. They also go on to discuss "Longer-Term Food Supplies" including some foods which can be stored for 30 years or more.

And here is a link to a site which discusses many different techniques for food storage put forward by the LDS Church. http://familysurvivors.com/lds-food-storage.htm

If you want to go as far as reading some of these "Survivalist" websites, they are pretty extreme in some cases, but you can find them at: survivalist.info, offgridsurvival.com, neosurvivalist.net, radicalsurvivalism.com and many others.

(in reply to FMRFGOPGAL)

Post #: 105

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/4/2012 10:36:36 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nameonhold

Drives me crazy when I have a drink with ice cubes in it when I'm in the big city. I can literally smell the chlorine in the melting ice cubes. It smells disgusting to my "well water nose."

I know, when i was a kid i had a hard time drinking city water.. well water does taste entirely different.. I lived in Anaheim, CA for a short while and they must dump 3 times the chlorine as other cities do cuz after i would take a shower, it would smell like I had a swimming pool in my bedroom from all the chlorine just from having the shower.. it was gross, not to mention how dry it made my skin and what it was doing to my hair.. ugh!

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to nameonhold)

Post #: 106

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/4/2012 10:41:23 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

also, about your solar power system.. how much help do you think it would it be in a storm like with a hurricane or bad tropical storm & the aftermath?

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 107

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/4/2012 10:44:40 PM

FMRFGOPGAL

Posts: 763
Joined: 9/1/2012
Status: offline

quote:

Just my humble opinion...
Why have so many people lost what are grandparents or great grandparents have taught us....prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Granted a major storm is hard to prepare for but there was ample warning. I currently live in the southeast and every cable news station talked about this storm and they talked about the worst case scenario. This included the scenario of high tide, full moon and 20-30 ft waves. This was talked about 3 days atleast before Sandy hit. So if people decided to prepare for the least and hope the worst don't happen than the chaos you have now is what happens when you gamble. I for one always prepare for the worst and maintain it. I also pay attention to what's happening in the world through varies methods. Maybe folks are just a little to busy with life activities to do so but they dang sure cant blame nobody.

Ummmmm ... please don't misread what I said. I was in NO WAY implying the people in New York and New Jersey were ANYTHING. I was recounting my own experience. The thing is though, my "American ancestry goes all the way to a well before the civil war and there's a long history of members living on and at the sea.
There's a distinct difference between my upbringing and those living in a very urban area like Manhattan.

(in reply to DomCplsc)

Post #: 108

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/4/2012 10:48:09 PM

FMRFGOPGAL

Posts: 763
Joined: 9/1/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nameonhold

quote:

ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL

PLEASE Post some links... Before Election Day.
Thanks in advance.

This link is directly to the LDS website: http://www.lds.org/topics/food-storage They urge all Mormons to build a 3 month food supply and to keep it rotated. They also go on to discuss "Longer-Term Food Supplies" including some foods which can be stored for 30 years or more.

And here is a link to a site which discusses many different techniques for food storage put forward by the LDS Church. http://familysurvivors.com/lds-food-storage.htm

If you want to go as far as reading some of these "Survivalist" websites, they are pretty extreme in some cases, but you can find them at: survivalist.info, offgridsurvival.com, neosurvivalist.net, radicalsurvivalism.com and many others.

Are those latter sites LDS related?
You mentioned cultural aspects of LDS that I haven't read much about. THAT is the part I am interested in.

(in reply to nameonhold)

Post #: 109

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/4/2012 10:59:26 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

It is something that concerns me (I have gone to eartquake seminars & done some research, etc) but what a person does to be prepared depends on their geography (& those disaster possibilities) and personal finances and of course, thier priorities.. So, imo, a lot of reasons why people arent prepared..

Much wisdom in what you say. And you can never know if your roof will withstand the wind. Florida rooves (roofs?) were tied down with steel bands embedded in poured concrete . . . and that was not enough.

My point in the OP however was addressed to the most minimal preps . . full tank of gas for the car, potable water, and non-perishable food. I find the long gas lines baffling.

How odd that you find the long gas line baffling. I live in NNJ and I got my tank filled before the storm as did others I know. But, those people also have to drive to work and guess what? Their gas needed to be refilled. 30% of the gas stations in NNJ are not availabe. So what is so baffling about that?

As far as preparedness, I believe we were as prepared as you could be. That is why a few days before the storm there were already no batteries, generators, food, etc. Because people did try and prepare.

As far as people who have lost their homes due to flooding; people who have chosen to live by the water know the risks and they do the best they can. They evacuated and are now trying to rebuild their lives.

Why someone could ask such a stupid question in the wake of such a catastrophe is beyond my ability to understand.

There is word called compassion; google it.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 110

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/5/2012 12:02:36 AM

focalss

Posts: 164
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I read things were bad closer to NYC but I didn't know 30% of the gas stations are shut. The news from NYC isn't encouraging but I know they will come back. I did take a risk based on looking at the forecasts but I felt I was prepared.

I wasn't prepared for how the state reacted and hearing people complain that the people who are affected didn't prepare or they somehow deserve what happened or should have known better. So based on that people have been prevented from leaving the affected areas making things even worse to punish them for not leaving.

These locations are not like some places that literally get hit every year or every other year. People who are in a place that gets damaged every year probably shouldn't rebuild.

When you see the water keep coming up and not stopping, and see the destruction it causes people I have to agree some people are lacking in compassion when they criticize others.

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 111

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/5/2012 4:50:20 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

If you didn't mean your OP to sound the way it did, perhaps you shouldn't have written it the way you did. Quite frankly, you are the one who sounds oblivious.

The OP quite clearly referred to the people who were in gas lines only three days after the storm . . . not to all victims. Hopefully, your pharmacy will reopen soon and you will feel calmer.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 11/5/2012 4:51:20 AM >

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

Post #: 112

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/5/2012 5:12:42 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

How odd that you find the long gas line baffling. I live in NNJ and I got my tank filled before the storm as did others I know. But, those people also have to drive to work and guess what? Their gas needed to be refilled. 30% of the gas stations in NNJ are not availabe. So what is so baffling about that?

I was told by family members in NJ that many of the cars in gas lines were carrying red plastic cans to get generator fuel. We have been discussing generator fuel throughout this thread. Video of the lines also showed many pedestrians with fuel containers to be filled. all of this on the third day after the storm hit. So, basically the first business day after the storm. And you are suggesting that people were replenishing their gas tanks because they drove to work. That does not compute.

quote:

As far as preparedness, I believe we were as prepared as you could be. That is why a few days before the storm there were already no batteries, generators, food, etc. Because people did try and prepare.

Of course, many people tried to prepare, and many were successful. The gasoline driven home generator does not seem to be a suitable model for preparedness. Not if you have to return to the gas lines to refill repeatedly. And not if many gas stations were unavailable. As I said earlier, it may be that people ran their generators excessively and failed to distinguish between creature comforts and survival needs.

quote:

As far as people who have lost their homes due to flooding; people who have chosen to live by the water know the risks and they do the best they can. They evacuated and are now trying to rebuild their lives.

My point was that people who lost their homes would be in shelters by the third day, not in front of TV cameras whining about being neglected.

quote:

Why someone could ask such a stupid question in the wake of such a catastrophe is beyond my ability to understand.
There is word called compassion; google it.

A cheap and arrogant shot

Many other posters made thoughtful and helpful replies.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 11/5/2012 5:26:04 AM >

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 113

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/5/2012 5:22:12 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

If you didn't mean your OP to sound the way it did, perhaps you shouldn't have written it the way you did. Quite frankly, you are the one who sounds oblivious.

The OP quite clearly referred to the people who were in gas lines only three days after the storm . . . not to all victims. Hopefully, your pharmacy will reopen soon and you will feel calmer.

The personal attack is completely unwarranted. You are oblivious (look up the word) to not understand the storm situation here. To have posted what you did even three days after shows a certain ignorance about both storm preparedness, and the nature of this particular storm as it affected this particular region (that is not typically prone to hurricanes). I am trying to discuss the issues you raised in your post. You asked for people's thoughts and experiences - you seem to be upset that I and my family and friends were all well prepared. Three days of gasoline is nothing in this area. Do you actually drive? People can easily use a full tank of gasoline in three days. And let us be reminded that first responders have first priority for gasoline. And yes, the first responders are using a lot of gasoline because they were operating even during the storm. Again, I just don't really feel your OP made much sense.

And then you fall back on ad hominem attack because you no longer have anything legitimate to draw upon to support your initial position. If you can't discuss the topic that you, yourself, raised, then maybe you should think twice about raising it next time. If your only recourse is ad hominem attack, then don't post here. I thought the boards were actually for ideas. If you lack them, that is not really my issue, is it?

We have people without homes up here, and we are heading into winter,and you are on here griping about people being in gas lines? Step back and think about this for a moment. Clearly something else is going on for you psychologically that you feel the need to attack in this manner. I, too, believe in individual responsibility. But your attempt to paint all victims of gasoline shortage as lacking individual responsibility is lame given the context of the shortages (that is related to power outages and the supply chain). Are you saying that as individuals they should have a greater impact on how quickly power issues are resolved, or how quickly gasoline can be transported to a disaster zone? Is that what you are trying to say? How exactly do I influence, as an individual, my power company to get the power on more quickly? How do I, as an individual, get the military to deliver the gasoline faster? Am I missing something here? I feel like everyone is doing their utmost - whether they are victims, employees of the power company, or the military.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 11/5/2012 5:25:33 AM >

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 114

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/5/2012 5:38:15 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

My, how you go on, ftp.
You said you resented the notion that most of you were not prepared.
i was not making a blanket statement, as you insist in my OP.
Read it anyway you like, whatever your motives are.
Enjoy your rant.
*shrugs*

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

Post #: 115

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/5/2012 5:39:01 AM

nameonhold

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Of course, many people tried to prepare, and many were successful. The gasoline driven home generator does not seem to be a suitable model for preparedness. Not if you have to return to the gas lines to refill repeatedly. And not if many gas stations were unavailable. As I said earlier, it may be that people ran their generators excessively and failed to distinguish between creature comforts and survival needs.

This observation hits the nail right on the head. Gasoline consumption goes way up when folks start running their generators. Some of these generators can burn at the rate of half a gallon per hour. I've seen gas stations that have power, get pumped completely dry on a daily basis.

Undoubtedly, the distributions systems, for gasoline, diesel, food, water and every other commodity are so "tight," where all the excess capacity in the system has been eliminated in the name of saving costs, that distribution systems begin to break down under the stress of an unusual spike in demand. Gas stations get pumped dry. Supermarket shelves are emptied. Convenience stores get wiped out. Wal-Mart and Target sell out of batteries.

These occurrences are COMMON. The only response to these societal failures is, as the OP suggests, ADVANCED PREPAREDNESS, not a reactionary response.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 116

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/5/2012 5:41:17 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

My, how you go on, ftp.
You said you resented the notion that most of you were not prepared.
i was not making a blanket statement, as you insist in my OP.
Read it anyway you like, whatever your motives are.
Enjoy your rant.
*shrugs*

My point is that even the conclusion that the people in line for gasoline were ill prepared reflects an obliviousness on your part. Your statement in the OP is incorrect. Period. Even using your definition. Get it now?

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 117

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/5/2012 5:42:21 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nameonhold

quote:

Of course, many people tried to prepare, and many were successful. The gasoline driven home generator does not seem to be a suitable model for preparedness. Not if you have to return to the gas lines to refill repeatedly. And not if many gas stations were unavailable. As I said earlier, it may be that people ran their generators excessively and failed to distinguish between creature comforts and survival needs.

This observation hits the nail right on the head. Gasoline consumption goes way up when folks start running their generators. Some of these generators can burn at the rate of half a gallon per hour. I've seen gas stations that have power, get pumped completely dry on a daily basis.

Undoubtedly, the distributions systems, for gasoline, diesel, food, water and every other commodity are so "tight," where all the excess capacity in the system has been eliminated in the name of saving costs, that distribution systems begin to break down under the stress of an unusual spike in demand. Gas stations get pumped dry. Supermarket shelves are emptied. Convenience stores get wiped out. Wal-Mart and Target sell out of batteries.

These occurrences are COMMON. The only response to these societal failures is, as the OP suggests, ADVANCED PREPAREDNESS, not a reactionary response.

Thank you

(in reply to nameonhold)

Post #: 118

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/5/2012 5:45:06 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

My, how you go on, ftp.
You said you resented the notion that most of you were not prepared.
i was not making a blanket statement, as you insist in my OP.
Read it anyway you like, whatever your motives are.
Enjoy your rant.
*shrugs*

My point is that even the conclusion that the people in line for gasoline were ill prepared reflects an obliviousness on your part. Your statement in the OP is incorrect. Period. Even using your definition. Get it now?

If people were properly prepared they would not have been in line.
Were you in line?
Evidently not.
Why not?
Because you were properly prepared.
Get it?
It's not a difficult concept, ftp.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 11/5/2012 5:46:12 AM >

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)

Post #: 119

RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness - 11/5/2012 5:45:13 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nameonhold

These occurrences are COMMON. The only response to these societal failures is, as the OP suggests, ADVANCED PREPAREDNESS, not a reactionary response.

Those of you who think it is possible for an entire population to plan in advance for every and all eventualities in a disaster are misguided. I think even with best efforts, depending on how the disaster unfolds, you will end up with emergency situations. I don't know of a single disaster in the U.S. or even in other countries, like Japan, where it was possible to plan for everything for everyone in advance. I am personally unaware of any natural disaster where not a single person found themselves in an emergency situation that was solely due to their personal situation alone. If any of you are aware of even one example from history, whether in the U.S. or outside, I would appreciate a reference. Thanks.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 11/5/2012 5:47:00 AM >

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to nameonhold)

Post #: 120

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Individual Responsibilities for Storm Preparedness

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109