RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (Full Version)

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littlewonder -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 1:14:29 PM)

Humiliation...plain and simple.

I'm very straight. Women do nothing at all for me but Master has talked about doing this in the future. His reason? He's a sadist <duh>. He knows I won't like it but that I will do it to make him happy. I will do it serve and please him and that turns him on.



LaTigresse -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 1:17:12 PM)

Indeed. I COULD, under the right circumstances, get my jollies from it. Unfortunately for the guy, he would not be involved in any way, shape or form. At least, not in any way he would enjoy.



needlesandpins -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 1:17:35 PM)

thanks for all the replies guys. this really wasn't a question of submission, or even a debate about forced bi. it's all to do with how some people will throw the lable at one person while saying they are 100% straight, but then in the next breath say that they will engage in forced bi even though it's not forced because they are consenting.

i'm of the opinion that fucking has nothing to do with sexuality. i don't think that a guy is bi, or gay just because he enjoys anal. if he uses a dildo he's not bi/gay, anymore than i am if i finger myself, nor is he if it's a woman with a strap on, but suddenly he is if it's a guy. so i am straight while i use a dildo on myself, or if he does it, but suddenly i'm bi if it's a woman. nope, not as far as i'm concerned. if there is a spectrum of bi there has to be one for straight and gay too. it seems strange to me that some are set on their beliefs when applied to others, but don't apply their own belief to themselves.

i do like hetroflexable though. i'm enjoying reading what you all think too.

cheers
needles



littlewonder -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 1:24:28 PM)

I've never claimed to have limits, whether it be in previous relationships or my current one. And I've never called it "forced-bi" to describe myself when ordered to do it just like I wouldn't label myself as a man if he ordered me to dress up like a guy.

For me pleasing Master is more important than my comfort.

I've done the girl on girl thing for the previous Dom. The first time I was blindfolded and I knew the very second she touched me. Men and women's bodies are nothing alike at all. I never came, I never felt pleasure. I felt basically nothing except lying there, tied up and hoping it was over soon. The woman who did it knew all about this being a forced girl on girl thing. She was a Domme as well and it turned her on to know I wasn't doing it because I wanted to. Plus she had always wanted me go out with her no matter how many times I told her I was straight.





Kana -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 1:34:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Humiliation...plain and simple.

I'm very straight. Women do nothing at all for me but Master has talked about doing this in the future. His reason? He's a sadist <duh>. He knows I won't like it but that I will do it to make him happy. I will do it serve and please him and that turns him on.


Naaah, it's not about humiliation. It's about power, control. It's about "She mine and she will do what the fuck I tell her too, and if I wanna see her with a chick, then she damn well is gonna."
It's about her fulfilling me and my desires/wants/goals/needs/thirsts.
The fact that she won't like it-that's simply the icing



descrite -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 1:52:19 PM)

quote:

But when I agreed to be Master's slave, I also agreed that he had the right to do what he wanted with my hard limits. He is aware of the repercussions that might occur if he did breach these limits, but I trust him to only do the stuff that won't destroy me and/or our relationship.


Okay, this whole thread is really fascinating. I get the compliance/humiliation/desire-to-please aspects...but is there really no room for calling a cessation to the encounter midway? Safewording? I have pushed otherwise-straight women into girl-girl scenes, and I always made it clear we could halt, stop, or end at their whim. While portraying and playing force, I have no desire to actually force someone to do something they find reprehensible, or even honestly against their will. Push the edges of their comfort zone? Sure. But not action tantamount to rape.



littlewonder -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 1:54:35 PM)

No, there is no halting....well, yeah there is but if I did then our M/s relationship would be over. We don't have safewords, there is no out. I agreed to be his slave. That means he gets what he wants. It means I am owned by him. I am his property. I stay because I love him. I stay because he's a good guy. I stay because I have integrity. When I agreed to be his slave, I consented once and once only.

And this is not anything even close to rape.




SimplyMichael -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 2:11:11 PM)

Bottom line, some dominants create relationships that result in getting things others cant. The odd part is its rarely the most chest thumping ones that make it work.

Its why my old tagline was "Great slaves are made by great relationships"



Aswad -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 3:33:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Yes, that *was* a highly sexist statement. Okay, they both are.


I don't see anything sexist about it. Most males aren't very picky about sex, IME, which makes perfect sense from an evolutionary psychology point of view: the guy doesn't have to carry the potential product of sex around for nine months and then raise it, so apart from STDs (which we have evolved aversions to), there's simply no downside for a caveman to be having sex with as many partners as possible.

Of course, some of us are rather cerebral about it, but you allowed for that in saying "many".

IWYW,
— Aswad.



Aswad -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 4:06:23 PM)

And, as for labels...

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

It's certainly not willing, but I'm struggling to find the right terminology here.


Since you mentioned not looking for labels, how about this?

«I don't want to have sex with a woman.»

Seems to accurately convey the idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

How the hell can you be straight and gay...


Both are just labels, and people assign them based on different criterion which aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

If you define straight as eating cherries and gay as eating bananas, while I define straight as being allergic to bananas and gay as being allergic to cherries, then someone that eats cherries and is allergic to bananas might get labelled straight by both our definitions, and still be labelled as gay by my definition. For that matter, seeing as gender is a pretty fluid thing, the definition of orientation isn't on particularly solid ground to begin with.

It's a case of drawing arbitrary lines on a map instead of dealing with the actual territory.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



E2Sweet -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 4:48:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Thank you Ms. E2Sweet, looking for this activity and begging for it, let's me know that you can't deal with reality.


I'm not sure I understand why I'm suddenly not dealing with reality.



E2Sweet -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 4:59:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

I disagree with this bit. I would still feel badly about it, and it's still my personal responsibility to take part in it. The difference is, if I say 'no' to doing this, it could have major repercussions on the rest of my relationship.

YMMV.


If I was in a relationship and was vocally against exploring in a certain way, and my partner insisted on doing it regardless of how I felt, I would feel disrespected as a human being. For me, there wouldn't be much of a relationship left to be salvaged at that point.

I'm just not one to be coerced in that way.



LizDeluxe -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 5:49:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

so after reading some of the comments in another thread, and previous ones along the same lines, on what makes a person bi or not i got to thinking.....what's the point of forced bi, and does it even exist?

there are some people who claim that they are so straight that they could never be considered bi. then in the next breath go on to say that if M/D said so they would endure sex with a person of the same sex, but that they are still straight. these people seem to be rather forthright about telling other people how bi they are though if they have same gender sex.

so i'm wonder.....what's the point? surely if you are that straight, and the thought of sg sex squicks you out that much then it should be a hard limit that the M/D respects. if it's not a hard limit then surely you are as bi as the ones you point the bi stick at. i kind of can get my head around the thought of the evil M/D that gets off on the 'consenting rape' aspect that may come into that, but i just don't see what you could get out of knowing that your person is getting nothing out of it.

for women being played with i can see that it could happen and you wouldn't be turned on. however, i don't see why anyone would want to bother playing with someone that they knew was concenting, but getting nothing out of it. as the straight woman how could you possibly bring yourself to play with another woman if it squicks you out so much?

for guys i wonder the same things. on the other side though it's very easy to see if he is really turned on by what is happening.

so come on, what do you all get out of it? what's the point?

and if you are the one being forced, but claiming to be straight while pointing the bi stick at others who say they are straight, why the hell do you do it?

needles


From the submissive side I don't think you have to actually get something out of the activity itself to be able to derive something from doing the activity. I personally enjoy it when they consent to something that they specifically do not enjoy. If you are flogging someone and they get off being flogged... no disrespect to the legions who do that and enjoy it but to me that's a real snore. When you can consent to something that you do not enjoy and walk away with a feeling of satisfaction for having completed (or endured, as the case may be) the activity - you've just ascended to a whole new plateau of submission.

As far as the whole straight/bi/gay sexuality thing goes I don't believe that sexuality is always as clear cut or black and white as your questions appear to indicate. Sometimes some human urges override other seemingly rigid human urges or instincts. It's been my experience that the desire to please is far stronger among males than it is among females in the submissive ranks. A man may draw a line in the sand but many women will draw that same line in concrete.




ResidentSadist -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 6:23:27 PM)

~fr

“what's the point of forced bi, and does it even exist?”
Nope, doesn’t exist. They could always refuse. Even in prison, you can fight to the death before getting raped. So it is a voluntary choice.

“so i'm wonder.....what's the point?”
It lets someone have a same sex experience and blame it on someone else, their dominant. No one does anything they don’t want to . . . they always have a choice to walk away. Even real non consensual slaves ran away or escaped when they couldn’t tolerate some shit.

“as the straight woman how could you possibly bring yourself to play with another woman if it squicks you out so much?”
Even hookers and porn actors that can blow a wrinkled up old man or take it in the ass from a goat have gender boundaries. If it doesn’t squick you out, then you aren’t quite so straight.







descrite -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 7:21:46 PM)

quote:

If I was in a relationship and was vocally against exploring in a certain way, and my partner insisted on doing it regardless of how I felt, I would feel disrespected as a human being. For me, there wouldn't be much of a relationship left to be salvaged at that point.



Yeah, I have to agree with this completely. It's one thing to play with degradation and humiliation, and another to serve it up.





Missokyst -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 9:41:54 PM)

You know..
When I read these things I wonder what is lacking in me that I never felt so deep a need to be with someone I would do anything they asked.
I can't decide if that is a good or a bad thing.
I have been deeply in love twice, but nothing would compel me to be owned to that extent.
Being married was as close as I got to it and that mark on my psyche was so deep I never wished to return.
I think I need to start adopting cats.


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

No, there is no halting....well, yeah there is but if I did then our M/s relationship would be over. We don't have safewords, there is no out. I agreed to be his slave. That means he gets what he wants. It means I am owned by him. I am his property. I stay because I love him. I stay because he's a good guy. I stay because I have integrity. When I agreed to be his slave, I consented once and once only.

And this is not anything even close to rape.






Marini -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/3/2012 11:40:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: E2Sweet


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Thank you Ms. E2Sweet, looking for this activity and begging for it, let's me know that you can't deal with reality.


I'm not sure I understand why I'm suddenly not dealing with reality.


I am sorry for the confusion Ms. E2Sweet, I totally AGREE with what you were saying.

I was saying the men that are on here begging for forced bi, and think they are being forced for activities they are seeking and begging for, aren't dealing with reality not you.



myotherself -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/4/2012 12:42:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: E2Sweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

I disagree with this bit. I would still feel badly about it, and it's still my personal responsibility to take part in it. The difference is, if I say 'no' to doing this, it could have major repercussions on the rest of my relationship.

YMMV.


If I was in a relationship and was vocally against exploring in a certain way, and my partner insisted on doing it regardless of how I felt, I would feel disrespected as a human being. For me, there wouldn't be much of a relationship left to be salvaged at that point.

I'm just not one to be coerced in that way.



I think LittleWonder explained it better than I did.

I'm a slave. I agreed that he would control my limits. I don't have a safeword. I can stop whatever is happening by simply walking away from the relationship, but that's not something I'm prepared to do.

I didn't make the decision to become his slave lightly. I thought about it a lot, we discussed the 'what if's of him pushing my hard limits, and after a lot of talking and a lot of thinking over several months, I made the decision. I could have stuck with 'submissive' instead of 'slave', but in my heart I knew that 'slave' was right for me/us.

So in reality, I have already consented to sex with another woman. Or choking to the point of unconsciousness. Or permanent scars. Or having my head shaved. Or...or...or...

The important point here is that this is not coercion. It's informed consent. I know this man, and I know that the health of our relationship is foremost in his mind. He loves me, and does not want a broken slave or a destroyed relationship. I don't know what he will want to do in the future, but I do know that whatever his decision, he will consider it carefully before making his decision. I trust him to make the right decision.

It's not disrespect, it's actually respecting the dynamics of our relationships.

I trust this man 100%. His pleasure is what makes me happy. Not every sub is cut out to be a slave, and not every dominant is cut out to be a Master. But I am, he is and it works extremely well. [:D]

footnote: I'm working by 'my/our' definition of submissive and slave. This may not fit your definition. YMMV



theRose4U -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/4/2012 1:49:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: FilmWithMistrix

My definition?

If you call to book a session, and request forced bi.. and then pay extra for it... no matter how much we role play 'force'... you're bi... get over it.

If I am playing with you on a personal level, and I surprise you with a cock & you acquiesce & suck it, but havent requested/indicated an interest in doing so prior... then its forced regardless of the amount of force (mental/physical/whatever) required to get you to do it.


This ^ and if you put in your likes and wants on your profile 'forced bi' you are bi.

By that logic because I like to jump & put it in profile...I'm a kangaroo!!!!



mons -> RE: "forced" Bi, what's the point? (11/4/2012 1:30:29 AM)

My slave I have now and I agreed that the hard limits for him is to be force to dress
as a woman and or making him have sex with another male!

I respect his limits and I will not make him do these things, it would break the trust he
has in me!

So I will not force him to be with a male and we both agree on this from the start!

If I were a submissive I would hate for a Master to make me have any type of
sexual way with a woman! It is something I would not like, but then
if I wanted to be with a woman it would be because I want it, But forcing someone
is just not something I would ever do!

I am training him now and what fun we have he is so shy and just is a neat thing
to learn what each likes or dislikes!

Being his Mistress or Domme is about respect and trust, if I were to surpise him
with a male and demand he suck or whatever I wished would destroy this new trust he has in me!

It should be held when limits are brought to the table when we speak of , my limits and his!

I do not feel the need to show how powerful I am he knows this without questions!!!!! We both spoke of what
will happen if either one of us were to break the "hard limits we both wish to be held important!

I see many other domme's who will test their submissive's and I see nothing wrong with the way they handle their
slaves or submissive! This is my way of handling my own baby!

It is truly powerful to know you have a all or part of their need within our hands and to make it or break it is up to the couple!

Best Regards

Mons



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