Capitalization of personal pronouns (Full Version)

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trelaford -> Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 11:40:29 AM)

Just stop it already. Really, it's just silly.


At least in My personal opinion.


I don't know, maybe it's just Me.




Toysinbabeland -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 12:14:22 PM)

Yes, It's Just you.




MASTERLIX -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 12:24:16 PM)

Yes, it is just you.

There is a history behind the use of capitalization.

If you need education on it, I can provide it.

SL




stef -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 12:25:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERLIX

Yes, it is just you.

There is a history behind the use of capitalization.

If you need education on it, I can provide it.

Oh yes, please do!




trelaford -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 1:04:44 PM)

I concur, please do.


The thought just happened to occur to Me - this weak, tired and rather transparent method of asserting one's 'dominance' can not possibly actually be effective, can it?


I mean don't You just smirk when You see it?


Again - maybe it's just Me.


In any event, to each His or Her own.




absolutchocolat -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 1:29:58 PM)

i'm kind of with you on that one. then again, i'm sure the grammar sticklers hate that i typically don't use caps at all. oh, well. fuck 'em.




Rule -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 1:35:48 PM)

The capitalization here is not excessive.

Not using a capital at the start of a sentence and a point at the end of a sentence is a bother, though.




OsideGirl -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 1:37:19 PM)

Better than slashy speak!




trelaford -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 1:47:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat

i'm kind of with you on that one. then again, i'm sure the grammar sticklers hate that i typically don't use caps at all. oh, well. fuck 'em.



Ah - so it's not just me. Or at least it's kind of not just me. Suck it haters.


Must say, I was too distracted by your avatar to notice your blatant disregard for capitalization.


What were we talking about again?




absolutchocolat -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 1:56:46 PM)

well, aren't you smooth?




MASTERLIX -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 1:57:09 PM)

Read this article:

Historical Use of Capitalization

by sajah – Version 1.0

"if you like my poems, let them walk in the evening, a little behind you then people will say "Along this road i saw a princess, pass on her way to meet her lover (it was toward nightfall) with tall and ignorant servants." - e.e cummings

Many people are introduced to the Lifestyle via electronic media such as chat rooms, message boards, mailing lists, and so on. Because these venues are based on written communication it is common for people who are new to the lifestyle to come across writing customs they are unfamiliar with. These customs may include the use of third-person speech by submissives, capitalizing the pronouns related to Dominants (He, She), and lowercasing a submissive's name.

Newcomers may be told a variety of reasons for this behavior: distinguishing a Dominant from a submissive online, formal displays of humility and respect, emphasis on status, etc. i, like many of these people, took this practice to heart as an outward display of D/s protocols. It was only when i began to encounter some opposition to these practices that I became curious about their origins.

After research, i discovered interesting historical aspects on this subject. i offer my findings here, not as to state "what you should do" but rather as a polite rebuttal to the perception that the use of lowercase names started as part of online roleplay. It is also intended as a rebuttal to those who veil pride behind the claim that forgoing modern capitalization is somehow less educated, and criticize the use of improper English.

The first documented use of capitalization occurred around the 4th century A.D., with Roman slave scribes. Until this time, Rome used several types of monocased handwriting, such as Capitalis Rustica or Uncial. 2 It is theorized that Roman slave scribes began to develop a method of handwriting for less important communications, beginning with messages between themselves. This handwriting may have been the first to employ both upper- and lowercased letters, introducing the concepts of majuscules and minuscules.

The slaves would "lowercase" their names and "uppercase" their Masters, as a form of differentiation. 7 This style of differentiation between subjects in handwriting became what is now called Half-Uncial, and was adopted when many of these slave scribes began to write books that gained renown.

Half-Uncial was adopted somewhere around 600 AD, by Latin and Greek philosophers to write their notes. Because many of their predecessors had lowercased their names, these philosophers and theologians continued to do so. Many were unaware that their predecessors had been very educated slaves. 3

With the introduction of the Carolingian script in about 800 A.D., the general public began to incorporate capitals and "smalls" in a single text, usually in informal writings. 4 This use of capitalization resembles the manner in which we use it today, but did not become ubiquitous for many centuries.

It became a hallmark of truly dedicated intellectuals of the 11th and 12th centuries to use lowercase when speaking about one's self, as with "i" or "me", and to capitalize the names of gods, including the Christian deity ("God" or "Lord"). As an interesting side note, it is the authors of this time period that e. e. cummings (1894-1962) emulated when he lowercased his name. During his education he noticed Latin and Greek manuscript authors never capitalized their names, and he subsequently began to lowercase his as well.

When slavery flourished throughout what is now the Middle East and India , people incorporated a practice of naming their slaves after traits or positive life aspects in hopes to bring these qualities into their households. It became common to have slaves named such things as "wisdom," "dignity," "prosperity, " etc. Female slaves, such as odalisques (harem girls), were often given soft names that described attractive things, such as "noor" (light). Some harem women were trained as spies, and named things such as "fahima" (disarming intelligence) .10 Because these slaves were named after things, and not in the Muslim biblical naming practice, they were never capitalized.

Biblical literature began to use these conventions as well. While no part of the Syriac version of the Old Testament remains, the Armenian version (translated in 411 A.D. from Syriac to Armenian) shows that many testimonies were written with lowercased i's and my's, and employed third person speech to show humility before God. This version of the Christian bible was seemingly the first to begin capitalizing God, Lord, and the associated pronouns. 9

The Armenian version was later translated into a variety of other languages, but many of these revised versions retained the capitalization styles up until the 1700's, when Christian scholars decided to make the text "easier to read" and moved to a more modern style of formatting.. Editing out some capitalization styles, third person speech, abbreviations, and neumes (Byzantine musical notes to aid the reader in chanting scripture) were just some of the changes that were made. 8 Interestingly, the Christian bible still retains the capitalization for pronouns referring to divine beings in modern texts, such as the King James version.

Between the 1600 and 1800's, there was an evolution of language as America sought to keep existing English traditions, employ new "bolder" styles, and draw from many sources such as Africa, France , the Native American Indians, and many language of the West Indies Islands . Capitalization, punctuation, proper grammar, and other rules of English were used loosely in some places, and stringently in others. 1 It is interesting to note, in European literature in this time, slave names, places, and dialects were written in lowercase to distinguish them from European equivalents. In Oroonoko, or the History of the Royal Slave (1688), the European slave master refers to her in lowercase as a term of debasement, to remind her that she is no longer a princess, but a slave. 6

The English language evolved and changed over time, making shifts from Old English to Middle, to Modern, and finally to present-day English. The dialect we speak (mainly American English in the U.S. ) is actually very young, less than 200 years old. What some term proper English is not truly traditional in a historical sense. To deem the use of lower- and uppercase conventions as improper is an argument without historical standing. There are many reasons a person may not agree with using these customs, but a short look into history demonstrates "proper English" is an amalgam of various cultures. A common issue taken with these conventions is doing so is to ruin the language, or pollute it some way. As stated above, there is no real purity of the language, and this should be taken into account when using this argument as a defense.

No matter the origins of a habit and practice, there will always be those who follow it religiously, those who follow it casually, and those who will argue against it. There is no right or wrong way, but there are methods that have proven themselves over time. You must be your own judge on what will work for you. Do be aware that subscribing or not to a certain D/s community "rule" may affect your standing within social circles you may choose to associate with. We, as humans, thrive on creating social constructs to define our ourselves and our behavior.

The practice of distinctive communication conventions in this context is not unpopular in this age, but it should be noted that for the purposes of this argument i would like to express the major reasoning.. Firstly, there is a distinct historical precedent. It has been established that these practices have been in use for hundreds of years. Secondly, the use of D/s-style conventions predates the current conventions. Thirdly, the practice itself is functional. For me, personally, i will continue to lowercase my name and capitalize titles and pronouns associated with my Master and other Dominants out of respect and training.

These types of reminders and restrictions are helpful to me, helping to create an environment that keeps my submission in the forefront of my thoughts. However, knowing a little history doesn't hurt either..




trelaford -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 2:22:40 PM)

Surely you could have consolidated that into 1 or 2 relevant paragraphs and cited a source more reputable than a message board post in doing so. If you're going to pontificate about 'education,' I mean.


Doesn't matter either way.


Whatever gets your rocks off - if somebody buys that you're somehow comparable to a feudal lord just because of your dominant sexual orientation, more power to You.


Just think it's silly in this day and age. Can't imagine it's all that convincing for most.




trelaford -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 2:38:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat

well, aren't you smooth?



Smooth as tree bark. Sandpaper.


Velcro.


Mitt Romney.




plushiecat -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 3:02:25 PM)

The history lesson is all well and good, but frankly, I find it quite ridiculous. The only other occurrence of pronoun capitalisation (outside of the beginning of a sentence) is when referring to a Deity, if your beliefs lead you in that direction. Frankly, I don't care how big a person's ego is, s/he won't get her pronouns capped mid-sentence. Not my dom = no difference in 'standing' than I am. Further, even with a dom of my own, it wouldn't get done. I/it's A/as S/stupid A/as S/slash T/typing. I have to wonder, with those that type with the slash, do they go to munches and say "Hello Capital A all and hello lowercase a all"? I am fully with trelaford--it's silly.




LadyPact -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 3:36:55 PM)

I'll stand behind Me and Mine. For what's worth, I don't care now and never did. The fact that anyone would want to impose on the way that other people should care to intrude on another's dynamic says far more about them than Me.

See, we were never here for you or for what you thought. When he talks with Me, he absolutely does hear that capitol M.

Perhaps your girl has the same fortitude.




trelaford -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 3:50:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'll stand behind Me and Mine. For what's worth, I don't care now and never did. The fact that anyone would want to impose on the way that other people should care to intrude on another's dynamic says far more about them than Me.

See, we were never here for you or for what you thought. When he talks with Me, he absolutely does hear that capitol M.

Perhaps your girl has the same fortitude.




Hold the phone - I would never want to 'impose on the way that other people should care to intrude on another's dynamic.' Honestly - never. Sincerely. Not in a million years.


I mean I sincerely don't even know what the fuck that means.


Why don't you capitalize the 'we', by the way? I guess that's a grey area. Maybe someone can give us some historical perspective, preferably by way of quoting a long-winded unsubstantiated message board post.




JstAnotherSub -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 3:54:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: trelaford

Just stop it already. Really, it's just silly.


At least in My personal opinion.


I don't know, maybe it's just Me.

I am meditating here. I can't tell if this is tongue in cheek or foot in mouth.

I'll get back to ya when I gather my thoughts, but I been to the porch, so that may not be something to look forward to.





plushiecat -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 3:55:55 PM)

@trelaford: I've seen 'W/we' used. >.< And I don't think anyone is imposing anything on anyone, LadyPact...just stating opinions.




kiwisub12 -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 3:57:02 PM)

OK - you're funny in a somewhat insincere sarcastic manner.[:D]




trelaford -> RE: Capitalization of personal pronouns (11/8/2012 4:55:02 PM)

Hey, that's not me, it's just the tenor of Our times.




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