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Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 5:49:17 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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Inspired by a thread on fetlife in which a Master was debating whether or not to insist his slave wears a collar, which she finds uncomfortable. He was concerned that, on one hand, he didn't want her to suffer if it was a genuine complaint, but on the other hand, didn't want to set a precedent that she could complain and he would change his orders.

So: How does this work for you?

As the D-type, say you set an order for your sub. The sub finds it unpleasant: not panic-attack-inducing, abject misery, but a legitimate complaint such as constant discomfort. Do you insist, or do you adapt/rescind the order? Do you like to 'pick your battles' and only insist on things that you deem to be very important, or do you always insist regardless of how much you personally care about the order in question?

As the s-type, which do you prefer? Do you want to know the dominant will impose his/her will despite your objections every time or do you prefer that your comfort is taken into account as much as possible?

Feel free to substitute other examples of orders to fit your reply. We're assuming in this case that the sub is completely honest about his/her problems and not just being stubborn, and that the problem is something more than 'not in the mood'.

Personally, I think I'd eventually start to feel upset if I felt he never listened to my reasonable complaints. I'd start to think 'what's the point, he doesn't care how I feel'. That said, the occasional 'tough luck' response can be a powerful reinforcement of the dynamic.

Thoughts?

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

Post #: 1

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 5:52:55 AM

DarkSteven

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I'm a softie and I'll usually give in.

That's an issue for us. I tend to be easygoing and she has told me that she'll push boundaries to see if I'll snap her back. There are some times when I'll do just that, but not as much as I should.

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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Post #: 2

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 5:54:34 AM

amber90

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That's an interesting question...

Answering as a sub, probably a balance of both. I don't really want my dom to give in every time I complain but at the same time, I would feel the same as OP if he doesn't listen to my complains once in a while.

Back to the original question: I'm slanting towards the master putting the collar on the slave.

Edit: Posted too early accidentally.

< Message edited by amber90 -- 11/16/2012 5:56:40 AM >

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 3

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 6:04:22 AM

soldierlvr

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Joined: 9/14/2012
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My collar I was given at my collaring ceremony is beautiful. It is also very uncomfortable. My Master only has me wear it when we go to play parties or if he wants me super dressed up. All other times, I wear the collar I wore while I was in training, it is smaller and much more comfortable. He doesn't give in every time I complain about something, he usually says "aww that hurts? poor baby" but he doesn't make me, or want me, to be in pain all the time.

When I was in training, he would lock me in wrist cuffs before he left for class (he was in his senior year of college). After a about a week, I started getting raw spots on my wrists, as he would be gone from about 5 AM (for PT) until 4 or 5 PM and he started making me wear them for shorter amounts of time after that, and didn't make me wear them at all until the sore places were completely gone.

(in reply to amber90)

Post #: 4

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 6:15:27 AM

QueenRah

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I have allergies. I am hyper-sensitive to physical and psychic energy. Because of that hyper-sensitivity, I often find myself in unendurable discomfort from items most people bear with no ill effects (necklaces, bracelets, shirt collars, *shrugs* ??? BRASSIERES!! [Yes, boys, I understand that most of you do not wear them. Those of you who choose to, more power to ya. I hate the effin' things! Alas, size, age and gravity make them essential for polite society.]), I sympathize with the submissive subject of your post. I would, certainly, understand her complaint and work out a solution with my submissive.

If she is uncomfortable - physically or mentally - with a dog collar-like device, why not adapt the meaning of "collar" to apply to something less obviously a collar? As you are probably well-aware, many collared s-types wear necklaces, bracelets or another piece of jewelry designated as "the collar."

Submissives, slaves, dominants, et all are, after all, still people. If we want to have those magical relationship thingies and all the thingies that go with relationships, we have to take the other's concerns into consideration. While there are some things that are not negotiable, for me, like hygiene, attire and demeanor to others, there are plenty of instances in which we can negotiate.

Thanks for the interesting question, AthenaSurrenders.

QR

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Post #: 5

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 6:17:49 AM

Toysinbabeland

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I'm disappointed when there is no structure, and it's delicious when I know that the task in question is something that pleases immensely..... but I do not want to be led without common sense, so if it is a small issue at hand I expect to have to do what I am told, however if it is an unnecessary discomfort, that neither 1 of us gains from, find then would either 1 of us wanted to I cannot imagine that something is enforced just to say because it will remind you that you belong to me.
I believe that there is a lot more respect for a D when they handle these issues with prudence. (provided of course that prudence isn't a unicorn).

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RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 6:23:37 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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I sort of think of it in the same way I think about parenting - don't sweat the small stuff. My kid wants to go to the supermarket dressed as Bob the Builder? Sure, no big deal. Wants to go with bare feet? No. Of course everyone has different opinions on what is and isn't a 'small thing'. If the collar is a big deal to the Master in question, to me that is different than if he would be happy with another type of symbol.

I think if I were the dominant I'd take the approach that I would chose carefully when to assert my power in situations like this. My husband rarely puts his foot down on things - I know if I have a problem with an order, he will hear me out and usually make reasonable accommodations for my concerns. Because he does this, it makes it easier to swallow when he decides an order should stand regardless of my opinion on it. Generally it means he feels it is important. I also know that when he does lay down the law, he means it and there's no wiggle room.

That said, once in a while it's nice to have him be a bit 'unreasonable'. It's a nice reminder of our dynamic and be kind of hot. If it was something that was going to make me miserable for a long time (such as an uncomfortable collar worn all day every day) it would start to make me feel crappy after a while.

Edit to add: Toysinbabeland - I think 'The Prudent Unicorn' would be an excellent custom title for someone.

< Message edited by AthenaSurrenders -- 11/16/2012 6:24:52 AM >

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Being your slave, what should I do but tend
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Post #: 7

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 6:44:53 AM

SimplyMichael

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I wouldnt see it as "giving in", I would find out why it was uncomfortable and solve that. Now if she cant wear a necklace at all then my choice is force her to do something that will embed a bad emotion with my collar? Oh hell no, lol!

Being with me should be a source of joy, pride, happiness etc. Life throws enough drudgery our way, OUR job is to look out for each other. Also, in my case I wouldnt be with someone who would play petty power games over things like that. Collars are a symbol, they have no power other than what we invest in them. Find a better path. Pierce her ear yourself, etc. Be creative but dont put the symbol before the relatiinship.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 8

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 7:08:05 AM

absolutchocolat

Posts: 1392
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when i'm submissive, i crave a firm hand. i enjoy the discomfort that comes with being dominated -- that's the best part. i'm so anal-retentive and nit-picky with everything else in my life. any dominant that can shake me out of that mindset works for me.

the only thing that makes me cringe when i'm subbing is having my hair pulled. generally, it's distracting and uncomfortable so it's a hard limit in my book. i've had it happen in the midst of cock worship and i get pulled right out of subspace. other than that, i'm okay with having my limits pushed.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 9

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 7:11:35 AM

bighappygoth39

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I totally agree with your comments. I don't see it as giving in, either. I did used to think I could be too soft on him, but as you say, I prefer to be with someone I know is as happy as they make me.

Of course, if I'm in the mood to see him constantly fidgeting while wearing the collar I like to see him in, then I'll have him wear it. A lot of things do depend on what sort of mood I'm in, but I'm always aware that I have to make sure his safety is important. Also, I wouldn't want to push him into turning bratty.

I think it's all about knowing both of your limits, really, and if you have the trust that's needed for any relationship to go well, I don't think you'll have many, or any problems.

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RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 7:29:57 AM

chatterbox24

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I liked that mine was a bit bulky and uncomfortable, put on right before play. It snapped me to complete attention.
I wouldnt like it over time though, a softer one which was pleasant to wear, would be a preference if it was a 24/ 7 one.
I would hope the dom would agree, if not , I would feel it was a constant punishment for no reason.

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Post #: 11

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 8:09:30 AM

LadyPact

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There's honestly not enough information here for Me to tell you one way or the other. Is the collar being worn all of the time? What's the source of discomfort? An actual allergy? Is it too heavy? Is it some big metal thing that digs into her neck? What the complaint is about has everything to do with how it should be handled.

Why not keep that collar for times when he wants her to be uncomfortable and buy something else for every day? (Not a good method if it's a serious complaint, but if it's slight discomfort, why not?)

While I'm always saying that submission isn't only about things you like, I do still pick My battles. I'd hope to think that I take the information at My disposal and use that in making decisions. Will there be times that I say, too bad, do it anyway? Yes. The thing is I counter that with looking at the potential result and what effect that is going to have.

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Post #: 12

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 8:13:52 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

There's honestly not enough information here for Me to tell you one way or the other. Is the collar being worn all of the time? What's the source of discomfort? An actual allergy? Is it too heavy? Is it some big metal thing that digs into her neck? What the complaint is about has everything to do with how it should be handled.

Why not keep that collar for times when he wants her to be uncomfortable and buy something else for every day? (Not a good method if it's a serious complaint, but if it's slight discomfort, why not?)

While I'm always saying that submission isn't only about things you like, I do still pick My battles. I'd hope to think that I take the information at My disposal and use that in making decisions. Will there be times that I say, too bad, do it anyway? Yes. The thing is I counter that with looking at the potential result and what effect that is going to have.

LadyP wrote what I was thinking.....

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 13

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 8:20:40 AM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

There's honestly not enough information here for Me to tell you one way or the other. Is the collar being worn all of the time? What's the source of discomfort? An actual allergy? Is it too heavy? Is it some big metal thing that digs into her neck? What the complaint is about has everything to do with how it should be handled.

Why not keep that collar for times when he wants her to be uncomfortable and buy something else for every day? (Not a good method if it's a serious complaint, but if it's slight discomfort, why not?)

While I'm always saying that submission isn't only about things you like, I do still pick My battles. I'd hope to think that I take the information at My disposal and use that in making decisions. Will there be times that I say, too bad, do it anyway? Yes. The thing is I counter that with looking at the potential result and what effect that is going to have.

LadyP wrote what I was thinking.....

Me too. That was pretty much exactly what I was going to write.

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(in reply to LaTigresse)

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RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 8:22:04 AM

SylvereApLeanan

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What LP said. My Kitty has a hard limit on wearing collars during spiritual rituals. I respect his spiritual practices so my desire for a locking collar he wears 24/7 had to be put aside. We negotiated on what he'll wear for a collar just as we negotiated on everything else. If there's a good reason for the discomfort - metal allergy, something is causing pain, etc. - then the collar needs to be changed. If it's just a matter of "I don't wanna" then the sub can suck it up.

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RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 8:27:43 AM

TieMeInKnottss

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My experience is limited so maybe I am not the best to answer, but I warn doms upfront about me "talking my way around stuff". My previous Dom, even AFTER that, let me slide on punishment once or twice because I was able to give a compelling argument (& no it wasn't anything like the sores the one woman got on her wrists or an allergy...). I push & I prefer to NOT get away with stuff... This is how I am in real life (shrug), I am not a whiner or complainer but I always test my boundaries... I must have someone who keeps me in line...let me talk my way out a couple of times & next thing you know I am running the show. Since this is NOT what I want or need, it doesn't work out well in the end.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 16

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 8:57:50 AM

DaddySatyr

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To me, it comes down to how important is the activity/condition I have asked her to endure.

You set the parameters as not being an issue with emotional damage so, beyond that, it's a matter of: "Am I asking her to do this because it's something I'd like her to do for me?"

If I were going to collar someone, I would bring her with me to go and purchase the item and she would try it on, etc. Once I ask: "You like this? This is the one?" and she replies in the affirmative. That's it.

Now, could she gain or lose weight, making it uncomfortable later on? I suppose but the the weight gain/loss becomes the issue.

Now, if it's something like kneeling on rice for a punishment, I could soooo see myself finding a different method, if that hurt her knees or some such.

There really isn't enough information for me to delve too heavily into this one thing. I can only leave it at: If it's something I need her to do, she needs to do it. If it's something unimportant, we can make other arrangements.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 9:07:17 AM

Darkfeather

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To give in, or not to give in. That is the question. As a dominant, I simply cannot, because I am wired to get my way. If its something I wanted, I asked for it with a reason. But very few things are black and white, and there are quite a few ways to get what I want without giving in. Finding the middle ground, compromising and still getting what I want, that is the hard part of being dominant

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RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 9:11:45 AM

theSwan

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I feel this is an area where some may disagree with my choice of lifestyle.
The formula for my Master and I is quite simple.
What is best for his goals is always done.
Always.

The important thing is that we both agree that his goals are the most important thing in both of our lives.

This often sacrifices my comfort.
This sometimes sacrifices his own comfort.
There is a very real removal of what we feel when we evaluate decisions and a very real focus on what is logistically best.

And if you evaluate your life down hard enough, there is always a better and worse for every circumstance that can be taken into consideration.

There is never a question of comfort of clothing.
I wear what is most attractive for the time.
I walk around NYC in heels, I go clubbing in heels.
I've trained my feet to handle that. Before the adjustment, I endured the soreness and calluses.
I corset train regularly during work activities.

If I have an emotional vulnerability, I am not always seen to.
Because there may be a greater priority than my current emotional state.

If I have a trait about myself that is undesirable.
Some of those past traits have been difficulty dealing with abrupt change, issues with perceived abandonment, and over-attachment to recognition.
The removal of that trait comes far before my comfort.
The progress towards a valuable step in his goals may come before that adjustment.

I live what many, at a glance, might label as something lacking sympathy or understanding.
And something abusive during times of adjustment.
But in reality, for me, what I have is one of the most valuable things I could ever ask for.
I have someone who would go to great lengths to make me a better person.
Lengths I could never drive myself to alone. Even with all of the willpower in the world.

And if someone's priority is to make you a better person.
And they are talented and controlled.
I don't believe their actions are abuse, nor lacking in understanding.
No more than what an clinic may do to help a drug addict get over their addiction.

The military isn't abusing their soldiers when putting them through basic training.
Even if they scream at them, push them to physical distress to the point of illness, cut back their sleep, and humiliate them.
They are giving their soldiers a foundation that allows them to become something which can serve as it needs to serve.

As far as small things, I don't generally ask for adjustments if the issue is small.
I provide requested insight, I give requested opinions.
And, now that I think about it, there are very few circumstances in which I can remember ever desiring anything different from him on small things.

I feel very well-crafted, very well-molded.

Edit for a more on-topic relevant statement
This is obviously depending on the extent of your relationship.
Service, as I experience it, involves submissives that would put their dominant's wishes over their own comfort unless they were genuinely concerned of their own safety.
In which case, it is in the best interests of the dominant, to evaluate and make adjustments for their property, as their submissive is an investment.
With a change in dynamic comes an obviously change in priority of comfort and adjustments, giving in and letting go.

The dominant here has the difficult (or easy, I suppose, depending on the person) choice of what dynamic they wish to build and how best to build it.
/end edit
--

About the collar thing.
I don't wear collars but..
In terms of accessories, I would say that unless there is a health or allergy hazard.
If the dominant feels that the collar will contribute to their relationship, by a bond, or reminder, or something which serves him, the collar should remain.
I imagine the submissive, after wearing it for long enough, will adjust and it will not be uncomfortable anymore.

< Message edited by theSwan -- 11/16/2012 9:17:17 AM >

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 19

RE: Suck it up, Buttercup - 11/16/2012 9:14:20 AM

SeekingTrinity

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I think Im from the "pick your battles" camp as well. Is the complaining for a legitimate reason or is it bitching just for the sake of bitching? I would want to have a discussion as to her feelings behind it and if its something that can be considered a valid reason (i.e. it hurts, etc), Im way more likely to want to figure out a way to compromise. Thats my responsibility as a dominant (to my way of thinking). Ive never really seen it as "selling out my dominance" by changing an order to fit a situation as needed.

But if its just complaining to see how much she can get away with, she can deal with it. Not everything in D/s is guaranteed to be pleasant and comfortable all the time.

< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 11/16/2012 9:15:01 AM >

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Post #: 20

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