RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 6:37:03 AM)

We rarely do, and I dont expect that to change, unfortunately.... with the exception of those who take stock options in their own companies.




DesideriScuri -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 7:05:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
I get the same problem trying to understand when big business goes down the pan over here too.
Who the fuck can honestly justify more than half-a-million a year??
As a direct comparison, that makes the boss on 10x the salary (or more) of his workers.
Anything more than that is just obcene.
And by the time those bosses bury more than 80% of their salary in "expenses" or other tax-dodging stuff, a lot of them pay a shit-load less tax than their workers.
Workers often have to pay for their medical insurance and pensions, their cars, meals out etc. Most of the fat cats don't pay a red cent - it's a "perk" of their postion. What they actually get paid is pure beer money, almost all the rest is buried in "expenses". Us mere mortals don't have that luxury.
Many of those at the top of the tree earn more in one year than many at the bottom will ever see in their lifetime.
That, to me, is just unacceptable and nothing more than sheer greed.
If a company is losing money, everyone should take a pay-cut as a percentage of their total gross income, including shares and dividends. But do tha fat cats ever do that?? Hardly ever.
Until the fat cats are on a level playing field with the rest of us, there will never be equal justice.
So Hostess is going down... Those fats cats have paid themselves more than enough to retire on, the poor workers will now have to struggle.


Wouldn't that provide incentive for more of the "poor workers" to get into Management to be a "fat cat?" Do college kids attempt to get into the NFL simply to be able to earn a comfy living playing a game? Fuck no! They want the high pay and glamour that goes along with it. Is the Heisman Trophy winner and/or First round draft pick going to accept the minimum payment negotiated under the current CBA? At around $350k (rookie minimum), won't that be enough? Dwight Freeney will make $19M this year to play in 16 games. I'd be willing to sit in for him for a game. Hell, I might even be able to retire on that. What does Tom Cruise make per movie?

Why is it CEO's are blamed for getting paid too much when you have a whole lot of other people that make a whole lot more? Isn't the point of low-pay low-skill jobs to gain experience and learn to merit being considered for higher skill and higher pay jobs? Is it the CEO's fault that a line worker doesn't have the needed skills for jobs that require more than line worker skills?

Do I think CEO's are overpaid? I don't know. Are line workers underpaid? I don't know. According to the Market, the answer is no. Plus, it's not my place to say, anyway. Should Hostess bakers have taken a pay cut? Again, that's not my place to say. I will say, however, that people should be paid according to the value they provide the company.




tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 7:12:40 AM)

lol.. any idea how many MBA's are waiting tables?




subspaceseven -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 7:23:30 AM)

"Why is it CEO's are blamed for getting paid too much when you have a whole lot of other people that make a whole lot more?"


The biggest bitch with this I think, is when the very people whose decisions led the company to go broke are allowed to increase their own pay before they leave.

It seems like a double standard, how people blame politicians for failures out of their control, yet Corp. CEO's are praised when the business they ran go broke and they still receive huge bonuses while the worker who has no say in the decision in how the company invests, or products it sells are always blamed...

If your product is a victim of the "free market" how is the worker to blame??? Who's fault is to blame for not keeping up with a changing market?? Who makes more money when the business fails??? In the case of Hostess, the CEO's millions while they claim they are broke When it is sold who makes the money??? the worker or the CEO's..It makes more sense for them to go bankrupt, let the people pay the debt an then make millions while they break up the company and sell it off and the media will help them blame the worker the lowest paid person in the company as the problem




DesideriScuri -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 7:32:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
lol.. any idea how many MBA's are waiting tables?


Why are the waiting tables, tazzy? Ever heard of Supply and Demand? If you get a degree in a profession or category where there are tons of others with that same degree/training, you very well may not get the job you want, simply because you aren't the only one qualified. I worked with a guy that had his Master's Degree in Exercise Physiology. Right after graduation, he couldn't find a job in his field, so he took a factory job. 15 years later, he's telling me his story in the cafeteria of that same factory. He stayed because the pay was better than what he could have gotten with his degree.

Shit happens. You make the best of what you can.

When you rely on others to provide a job you hope to get, you become dependent on those providers. If you get an education/training in something that the providers aren't currently needing employees for, the providers aren't to be demonized. It's not their fault.




tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 7:34:11 AM)

Because they were told to get an MBA to get into management.... duh.




DesideriScuri -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 7:37:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven
"Why is it CEO's are blamed for getting paid too much when you have a whole lot of other people that make a whole lot more?"
The biggest bitch with this I think, is when the very people whose decisions led the company to go broke are allowed to increase their own pay before they leave.
It seems like a double standard, how people blame politicians for failures out of their control, yet Corp. CEO's are praised when the business they ran go broke and they still receive huge bonuses while the worker who has no say in the decision in how the company invests, or products it sells are always blamed...
If your product is a victim of the "free market" how is the worker to blame??? Who's fault is to blame for not keeping up with a changing market?? Who makes more money when the business fails??? In the case of Hostess, the CEO's millions while they claim they are broke When it is sold who makes the money??? the worker or the CEO's..It makes more sense for them to go bankrupt, let the people pay the debt an then make millions while they break up the company and sell it off and the media will help them blame the worker the lowest paid person in the company as the problem


In my second reply to this thread, it ended with this:
    quote:

    Personally, I do put some onus on Unions for the death of Hostess. But, I also put some onus on Management, and on the Market. In the end, as sad as it may be to lose Hostess and, possibly, their products, if they have a failed business model, they have a failed business model and the Ho Ho should go the way of the dodo.




subspaceseven -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 8:33:26 AM)

I did not see that

Though when a business fails, it fails long before the wages of the lowest workers come into play. the corp media is very quick to blame unions, but never blame the CEO's when non union companies fail




LookieNoNookie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 8:41:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

quote:

Blame the "fat cats" all you want but they're looking for jobs as well.


As well they should be. The executives are the ones who drove Hostess into bankruptcy, not the bakers or the drivers or anybody else who simply wanted enough to live on for their work.

How does a multi-million dollar salary help the economy anyway?



The same way a $10,000.00 one does, the same way a $75,000.00 one does, the same way a $200,000.00 one does.




tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 8:43:26 AM)

The 10,000 goes into the economy. About half of the 75,000 one does. 200,000? Guess how much isnt being spent.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 8:44:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

lol.. any idea how many MBA's are waiting tables?


Likely millions.

What's your point?




LookieNoNookie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 8:45:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subspaceseven

"Why is it CEO's are blamed for getting paid too much when you have a whole lot of other people that make a whole lot more?"


The biggest bitch with this I think, is when the very people whose decisions led the company to go broke are allowed to increase their own pay before they leave.

It seems like a double standard, how people blame politicians for failures out of their control, yet Corp. CEO's are praised when the business they ran go broke and they still receive huge bonuses while the worker who has no say in the decision in how the company invests, or products it sells are always blamed...

If your product is a victim of the "free market" how is the worker to blame??? Who's fault is to blame for not keeping up with a changing market?? Who makes more money when the business fails??? In the case of Hostess, the CEO's millions while they claim they are broke When it is sold who makes the money??? the worker or the CEO's..It makes more sense for them to go bankrupt, let the people pay the debt an then make millions while they break up the company and sell it off and the media will help them blame the worker the lowest paid person in the company as the problem



No one has said the workers are to blame.

They were given option A and option B.

They chose B.




tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 8:45:48 AM)

My point was in reference to the post I responded too. Did that elude you as well?




Lucylastic -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 10:42:29 AM)

[image]http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/532148_10151281051133729_1490742946_n.jpg[/image]




DesideriScuri -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 11:10:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The 10,000 goes into the economy. About half of the 75,000 one does. 200,000? Guess how much isnt being spent.


Yeah, those who make shloads of money let it sit idle, don't they? Oh. Wait. No, they don't. That money serves (or is supposed to serve) as the basis for the fractional reserve banking system we have.

It enters the economy, just not as a direct consumer purchase of produced goods.




DesideriScuri -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 11:13:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
[image]http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/532148_10151281051133729_1490742946_n.jpg[/image]


Apparently, the skilled workers won't bring enough economic benefit to the companies to merit the "living wage."





tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 11:26:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The 10,000 goes into the economy. About half of the 75,000 one does. 200,000? Guess how much isnt being spent.


Yeah, those who make shloads of money let it sit idle, don't they? Oh. Wait. No, they don't. That money serves (or is supposed to serve) as the basis for the fractional reserve banking system we have.

It enters the economy, just not as a direct consumer purchase of produced goods.


And you can guarantee that every penny of their money is in the economy, right?

lol... gotta love the "supposed to serve" part. Tell me, does that include all the off shore accounts as well?




Lucylastic -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 11:50:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
[image]http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/532148_10151281051133729_1490742946_n.jpg[/image]


Apparently, the skilled workers won't bring enough economic benefit to the companies to merit the "living wage."



yeah amazing that, isnt it....working full time or part time, just isnt worth paying more than slave wages.
fuck em, they dont deserve anything more.
lazy bastards, unskilled should be living in dormatories, likes they do in china

Someones gotta do it, huh
fuck what a sick attitude




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 12:07:07 PM)

I think the problem with Hostess is the same thing we saw with the major banks over here and other big companies.

Everyone is told they have to tighten the purse strings or the business goes broke.
As with Hostess, the workers are given the choice of lower wages or less/no jobs because the company can't afford it.
The workers, union or not, don't really get much of a choice.
The bosses on the other hand, give themselves massive, disproportional wage RISE!!
Where's the fucking logic in that??
Cut the pay of the top 10% of the fat cats and that is usually more than enough to pay the wage demands AND put money into the coffers of the companies doing the bleating.

We see this trick time and time again.
Time to put a stop to these sort of tactics.




tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 12:09:32 PM)

I believe if they had cut their own wages the employees would have went along with the rest.




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