RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 12:26:35 PM)

The restructuring "experts" really werent that good huh, I wonder how much they "earned"[8|]
Not paying into pension funds certainly didnt help the situation either, especially when they paid it off in bonuses for "such great" management.



Moonhead -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 12:31:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I believe if they had cut their own wages the employees would have went along with the rest.

Yes, but that would have been all lefty, and you can't have that in America.



Lucylastic -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 12:32:21 PM)

get out of my head Moony, LOL



tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 12:39:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The restructuring "experts" really werent that good huh, I wonder how much they "earned"[8|]
Not paying into pension funds certainly didnt help the situation either, especially when they paid it off in bonuses for "such great" management.



Fact is, these were hedge fund managers... they knew what they owned, how much it was worth, and when to cut their losses at the right time.

They knew exactly what they were doing...



Lucylastic -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 12:42:49 PM)

smiles, of course:)



Lordandmaster -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 12:46:00 PM)

It's not a free market when the board votes itself nice pay increases even as revenues dwindle. (The mantra over there is "You suck my dick; I'll suck yours.") Now management is asking the courts for permission to distribute $1.75 million in bonuses--from a company that is bankrupt! How is that "the Market"?

One immense swindle that Americans seems to have fallen for--hook, line, and sinker--is that any shit that might happen to them can simply be chalked up to "the market." Oh, so sorry you lost your job. It's the market, my friend.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Do I think CEO's are overpaid? I don't know. Are line workers underpaid? I don't know. According to the Market, the answer is no.



tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 12:48:48 PM)

~FR

Can we please stop calling it a raise and call it what it truly is?

Severance pay.

They knew going into those talks what they were planning on doing.



Lucylastic -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 12:55:10 PM)

The Fix the Debt campaign has raised $60 million and recruited more than 80 CEOs of America’s most powerful corporations to lobby for a debt deal that would reduce corporate taxes and shift costs onto the poor and elderly.

This report focuses on the Fix the Debt campaign’s corporate tax agenda and in particular the windfalls the campaign’s member corporations would reap from a territorial tax system. We also analyze the savings the Fix the Debt campaign’s CEOs have derived from the Bush tax cuts and how many of them received more in compensation last year than their corporations paid in federal income taxes.

Key findings:

The 63 Fix the Debt companies that are publicly held stand to gain as much as $134 billion in windfalls if Congress approves one of their main proposals — a “territorial tax system.” Under this system, companies would not have to pay U.S. federal income taxes on foreign earnings when they bring the profits back to the United States.
The CEOs backing Fix the Debt personally received a combined total of $41 million in savings last year thanks to the Bush-era tax cuts. The top CEO beneficiary of the Bush tax cuts in 2011, Leon Black of Apollo Global Management, saved $9.9 million on the Bush tax cuts. The private equity fund leader reaped $215 million in taxable income last year just from vested stock.
Of the 63 Fix the Debt CEOs at publicly held firms, 24 received more in compensation last year than their corporations paid in federal corporate income taxes. All but six of these firms reported U.S. profits last year.

http://www.ips-dc.org/reports/ceo-campaign-to-fix-the-debt/

Yet they are not offering to forgo federal money or pay a higher tax rate, on their personal income or corporate profits. Instead,the recommendations include cutting "entitlement" programs



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 1:03:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

Can we please stop calling it a raise and call it what it truly is?

Severance pay.

They knew going into those talks what they were planning on doing.

It's only severance pay when they get the boot from the company.

From what I see, in a lot of cases, that doesn't happen much.
The company shed the workforce and it still goes on trading.
You don't see the workforce being given a golden handshake - only those at the top.

To me, if it was those at the top backing a doomed business model or not following market trends to maximise profits, they don't deserve a single red cent for bringing the company down.
If anything, considering what they paid themselves, they should be fined for every cent the company lost as a result of their bad management.

If it was a small corner-shop business, the shop owners don't usually get those perks. They are still saddled with the debts of the shop and the business; sometimes to the point of losing their homes when the business takes a dive.

Do you ever see that with these big multi-million corporations?
No, you don't.
If you want the perks of being at the top of the chain, you should also have to shoulder the pains of when it goes tits-up just like any other small business.



tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 1:04:03 PM)

Since their intention was to close the corporation, they are, in effect, booting themselves from the company.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 1:13:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Since their intention was to close the corporation, they are, in effect, booting themselves from the company.

Even so, they should be made to pay the debts of that company they incurred by bad management.

It seems to me that they are on a win-win situation which no small business has the luxury of.
If they were made to pay back the losses, like bosses/owners of smaller businesses, I'm sure they would take a much different approach to resolving the problem.

As it is, they pocket the money and stand back while the ship sinks.
That's not business, that's fleecing the business - and that stinks.

In any other scenario it would be called embezzling or theft.



Moonhead -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 1:17:17 PM)

If you owe somebody ten grand it's your problem.
If you owe somebody a few million, it's the taxpayer's problem...



tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 1:17:19 PM)

Oh, trust me, I dont disagree that they should pay their debts first. But calling it a raise when they knew they were going to close shop is simply wrong.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 1:27:40 PM)

But if the shop doesn't close (and it hasn't with Hostess yet, has it? and it certainly hasn't with our big banks), then it's a raise.
There's no other word for it - a self-voted and unjustified raise.

They didn't earn it by performance (increased profits) and they certainly weren't given that money by the share-holders or the workers or the unions - they gave it to themselves.
The whole "give ourselves a pay rise" cult of the fat cats is just really unpalatable for most others not in that small clique.



tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 1:28:50 PM)

Its closed. They have approval to liquidate.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 1:50:59 PM)

I went off to find out and they have indeed fired 15,000 jobs.
They still have 3,500 employees working for them at the moment though.

I wonder if the dozen or so exec's hadn't paid themselves 35-80% pay increase just before filing for bankruptcy, they might have saved the company?
And I bet the lawyers get paid!!




tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 2:00:51 PM)

the 3500 is to wind down operations... closing plants... packing.. ect



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 2:54:06 PM)

It only takes ONE administrator to do that.

I bet those fat cats are still being paid their fat and inflated salaries until the company is officially closed.
Meanwhile, the workers are chucked out of a job, instantly, with no pay.

I see no justice in that at all.



tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 2:55:10 PM)

Who said anything about justice here? And those fat cats are already on their way to other jobs. No need to worry about them, they are well taken care of.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/25/2012 3:01:09 PM)

But that's my point - there should be justice for everyone involved.

There shouldn't be any discrimination against the workers like there is.
And the fat cats shouldn't get away with what they do.
The debts shouldn't fall on the shoulders of others while these greedy fat cats walk away with millions in their pockets.

Maybe if someone had the balls to change the labour and/or company laws, things could be vastly different.

Just my [sm=2cents.gif]



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