RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs

RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/28/2012 2:55:12 PM)
Yeah, looks like I reversed the numbers for the additional they're willing to pay for H1B's (10K) and green cards (15K)...regardless....it's a gigantic jump from what they're paying now (8 - 10 x's) and they're doing it because they can't find qualified people here. As has been pointed out to you several times now there is no shortage of american citizens available to fill these jobs just a shortage of american citizens willing to work for what gates & co. are willing to pay. If a programer makes 100k per year and your buddy bill can pay an h1b guy 45K + a one time 15K bonus that saves your buddy bill about 315k per programer for the six year h1b period. In an earlier post you said there should be no upper limit on how much money a person could be paid but here you are seeking government interference to limit how much money an american citizen is allowed to make.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/28/2012 5:02:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx: Perhaps you should tell us what the word median means. Or perhaps you could tells how $32K with benefits (before overtime) for an less than high school, no experience needed job constitutes slavery? The Hostess Bakers are (oops) were not pastry chefs or artisan bakers. BTW "less than high school" and "no experience needed" are the Bureau of Labor Statistics words not mine. I am sure Hostess had an on the job training program for its bakers and it probably took up to 5 years to make a full Union Wage. Finally one only need click on median on the BLS to understand what it means but since you did not seem to I will give you that definition: "The wage at which half of the workers in the occupation earned more than that amount and half earned less. Median wage data are from the BLS Occupational Employment Statistics survey." $32k with benefits (before overtime) likely put a Hostess Baker in the upper third of said scale

LookieNoNookie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/28/2012 5:05:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Yeah, looks like I reversed the numbers for the additional they're willing to pay for H1B's (10K) and green cards (15K)...regardless....it's a gigantic jump from what they're paying now (8 - 10 x's) and they're doing it because they can't find qualified people here. As has been pointed out to you several times now there is no shortage of american citizens available to fill these jobs just a shortage of american citizens willing to work for what gates & co. are willing to pay. If a programer makes 100k per year and your buddy bill can pay an h1b guy 45K + a one time 15K bonus that saves your buddy bill about 315k per programer for the six year h1b period. In an earlier post you said there should be no upper limit on how much money a person could be paid but here you are seeking government interference to limit how much money an american citizen is allowed to make. hey....I fucked up....chill....I reversed the numbers....Msft is willing to pay 10K for an H1B visa.....and 15K for a green card....get a life. Oooops....sorry. It's still light years beyond what they've been paying and they're stepping up to the plate. Offering more still and....they still pay the same for a local guy vs an international guy. (get a clue). (And....Msft is paying the same for an Indian engineer as they are paying for an American....there just aren't enough Americans. Sign in Thompson....play the game we're all playing... get a clue).

tj444 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/28/2012 5:14:38 PM)
thats ok.. Canada will take those jobs.. btw, those are frequently students trained in the US but then booted out.. I somehow doubt its only Microsoft doing this.. The Vancouver area is a global gateway with a diverse population, is close to Microsoft’s corporate offices in Redmond and allows the company to recruit and retain highly skilled people affected by immigration issues in the U.S. http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2007/jul07/07-05msexpandvancouverpr.aspx The majority of those workers are graduates of U.S. universities who can't stay in the country because of visa issues.. He said the Microsoft workers may eventually gravitate to the province's other tech companies. "It may well be that they work at Microsoft for two, three, five years," Spothelfer said, "and then they can go work at a startup." http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2008/04/07/story5.html?page=all

LookieNoNookie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/28/2012 5:46:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 thats ok.. Canada will take those jobs.. btw, those are frequently students trained in the US but then booted out.. I somehow doubt its only Microsoft doing this.. The Vancouver area is a global gateway with a diverse population, is close to Microsoft’s corporate offices in Redmond and allows the company to recruit and retain highly skilled people affected by immigration issues in the U.S. http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2007/jul07/07-05msexpandvancouverpr.aspx The majority of those workers are graduates of U.S. universities who can't stay in the country because of visa issues.. He said the Microsoft workers may eventually gravitate to the province's other tech companies. "It may well be that they work at Microsoft for two, three, five years," Spothelfer said, "and then they can go work at a startup." http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2008/04/07/story5.html?page=all Canada is "stealing" all our blue collar guys. (They ain't stealing us anymore than the Mexicans are stealing jobs Americans won't do). We all have our thumbs in our lapels thinking "Yeah baby....I got a sweet gig....1 for 1 on the exchange...blue collar...I can pay off my house" All they give a shit about is...can you turn a wrench? Wake the fuck up and get a gawddamned education! You think China is stealing your jobs? You're GIVING our jobs to Canada. And that's the fucking way it works!

tj444 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/28/2012 6:08:33 PM)
not just today's jobs, Lookie.. future new start-up businesses & future jobs also.. oh well.. Immigrants Twice As Likely To Start Businesses As U.S.-Born Citizens http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/immigrants-new-businesses_n_1499719.html There's a more than one-in-four chance your new boss wasn't born here. Immigrants created 28% of all new firms last year. http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/07/smallbusiness/immigration-entrepreneurs/index.htm

Level -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 2:39:23 PM)
Hostess execs to get $1.8 million in bonuses. Saw it on yahoo.

Lucylastic -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 3:08:11 PM)
I saw it too, but didnt want anymore whinning about how much execs earn their money...

Level -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 3:43:42 PM)
It's blood money .... [:'(]

FatDomDaddy -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 5:07:46 PM)
And the Bakers made sure the workers get food stamps and Toy for Tots this Christmas. It's a shame really.... but the new management team worked hard to turn things around, got a CBA done while under Federal bankruptcy rules and then...the The Bakers Union's leaders forced a strike. That the Hostess bakers were in the upper third of wage earners in their field and had jobs with benefits didn't matter. But hey... according to many in this thread, this strike was a major victory for American Unions and workers, so they have that!

tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 6:17:22 PM)
I never said it was a major victory. I did say the difference is that the workers chose themselves. Those that were not on strike will collect unemployment. The ones that will be hurting are the Bakers.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 7:00:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Hostess execs to get $1.8 million in bonuses. Saw it on yahoo. That's just sickening.

Level -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 7:11:46 PM)
Well, I thought it was; the whole thing wad, it shouldn't have happened.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 7:25:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Yeah, looks like I reversed the numbers for the additional they're willing to pay for H1B's (10K) and green cards (15K)...regardless....it's a gigantic jump from what they're paying now (8 - 10 x's) and they're doing it because they can't find qualified people here. As has been pointed out to you several times now there is no shortage of american citizens available to fill these jobs just a shortage of american citizens willing to work for what gates & co. are willing to pay. If a programer makes 100k per year and your buddy bill can pay an h1b guy 45K + a one time 15K bonus that saves your buddy bill about 315k per programer for the six year h1b period. In an earlier post you said there should be no upper limit on how much money a person could be paid but here you are seeking government interference to limit how much money an american citizen is allowed to make. Thompson...get a clue.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 7:26:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy And the Bakers made sure the workers get food stamps and Toy for Tots this Christmas. It's a shame really.... but the new management team worked hard to turn things around, got a CBA done while under Federal bankruptcy rules and then...the The Bakers Union's leaders forced a strike. That the Hostess bakers were in the upper third of wage earners in their field and had jobs with benefits didn't matter. But hey... according to many in this thread, this strike was a major victory for American Unions and workers, so they have that! Valhalla. Long live Batista.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 7:30:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I never said it was a major victory. I did say the difference is that the workers chose themselves. Those that were not on strike will collect unemployment. The ones that will be hurting are the Bakers. No they didn't... a minority of the workers chose it for all of them. The Teamsters ratified the CBA, the non union workers, 6,500 of them did not not strike. Unemployment is a fraction of what they would have earned had they been allowed to continue working. I doubt many of them will be able to afford the COBRA coverage on their health insurance. As for the management bonuses, they have been approved but they still have to be earned. The management team is needed during the liquidation processes and so not as to have the company abandoned, under the rules of Federal Bankruptcy, bonuses will be given as benchmarks are met. If there were no bonuses, The Receiver would likely pay twice the bonus amount if not more, hiring new management to oversee the company liquidation. The new team would demand bonuses as well.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 7:33:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Well, I thought it was; the whole thing wad, it shouldn't have happened. Level, I know you're a thinking man. The money (investors) want their money back...pretty normal stuff. If you bought a backhoe for 29K....you'd expect 40k in return. The unions were thrilled to see all the investment over the years (regardless of where it went and you can be certain, the union bosses got a check as well). When did they step up? I haven't seen any press on them saying "yeah....well we have shitloads of money....why don't we buy this thing for 12 kabillion dollars and pay all our cream stuffers....300 grand a year". For one simple reason: They'd much rather collect their $37.93 a week from 18,500 plebes who will never know the difference but be certain their union loves them and cares for them. (They don't give a SHIT about their plebes...trust me). They (the public) never recognized (which should have been obvious), the corporate dudes loaded the company up with debt that was commensurate with that which could be paid out based on what would be a reasonable operating margin, based on normal industry standard costs. The laborers opted to not provide that, whether through wages or efficiencies. The net result was....job loss. And yeah the execs are due their bonuses because the investors are about to get a significant return on their investment, thanks to the executives management expertise. The investors (shareholders) are the ones who paid for the company...ergo...they deserve a reasonable return. Pretty basic stuff.

tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 7:35:42 PM)
quote: No they didn't... a minority of the workers chose it for all of them. The Teamsters ratified the CBA, the non union workers, 6,500 of them did not did not strike. Unemployment is a fraction of what they would have earned had they been allowed to continue working. I doubt many of them will be able to afford the COBRA coverage on their health insurance. I know many wont. Suddenly you are all worried about COBRA coverage and the workers after the last 7 years? Is someone in your family affected by this?

tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 7:38:23 PM)
And it sets the stage for the company to find a second life with new owners. Hostess said in court that it's in talks with 110 potential buyers for its brands.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/30/2012 7:44:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: No they didn't... a minority of the workers chose it for all of them. The Teamsters ratified the CBA, the non union workers, 6,500 of them did not did not strike. Unemployment is a fraction of what they would have earned had they been allowed to continue working. I doubt many of them will be able to afford the COBRA coverage on their health insurance. I know many wont. Suddenly you are all worried about COBRA coverage and the workers after the last 7 years? Is someone in your family affected by this? Ya know the funny thing is....you're right on a lot more things than I or others give you credit for...you just rant about shit (not this)...just to fucking rant and rant and rant. If you'd just stop for 10 minutes and think your positions out rationally....you'd come away a winner more times than not. You're actually smarter than most give you credit for, but you lose it trying so desperately to cover a bad assumption. Think things through kiddo....you have a great brain. You just don't use it.

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