RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs

RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

mnottertail -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 10:04:31 AM)
Ja, when a man knows he is to be hung in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully.

Zonie63 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 10:44:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Tell that to Microsoft who has over 4,000 jobs that start at 90 grand a year, yet they can't find people skilled enough to do them. When you offer $45 an hour for a position that pays $60 an hour why is it so difficult for you to see why no one wants go work for less? quote: When a company is willing to pay the feds an additional 15K over and above what they ask for now for an H1B Visa (and STILL pay 85 - 125K a year for the position, regardless of your citizenship)....why is it so difficult for you to see any kind of concept relating to reality? Why don't you tell us just how that works? You seem to be saying that micrsoft is paying the feds 15K per visa per year...Is that what you are saying? You have also changed the pay that microsoft is paying from $45 per hour to $62.50 per hour. Please make up your mind which pay scale you are arguing. Uhmmmm....that's exactly what I'm saying....they're paying starting wages of between 85K a year ($41.00 an hour) and 125K a year ($60.00 an hour) to anyone who can do the task AND willing to pay an ADDITIONAL 15K to the feds to get people who can do the task....yeah....that's exactly what I'm saying...nothing less than that....exactly that....no less than that. There SHOULD be no confusion as to what I'm saying (unless Nouns and Verbs are your problem) because what I've said previously and what I'm saying now, at this EXACT moment...are in fact.... The same thing. I'm sure it may be somewhat complicated for you to discern but....reviewing (my) past posts, you'll find exact concurrency in all. Any questions? Why doesn't Microsoft just use some of that money to train their own employees who are looking to move up the ladder? It seems they're throwing a lot of money out there just to find people who are already trained in those jobs, when they could use that money to educate some within their already existing workforce to do the jobs they need filled. Some companies offer tuition reimbursement and encourage their employees to take continuing education so that they can be a better asset to the organization. They can't expect everyone to have the same ready-made set of skills, but people can always learn and adapt. I've heard other companies and business owners make similar complaints. "I have all these jobs to fill, but nobody with the skills to do them." But what's the problem here? Is it the educational system? Do we just not have enough skilled, educated people in this society? Is our workforce not being properly prepared to compete on a global scale in the 21st century? Or is the problem also from the other side, where jobs and skill sets have become so specialized that the number of people within each specific area of expertise becomes fewer and fewer? Systems and technologies have become so complex that just your general handyman isn't going to cut it anymore. It's not like the old days when someone could just walk in off the street and get on the job training on the assembly line. Now, they expect you to know it all before you apply for the job, and it seems that not everyone can meet those requirements.

mnottertail -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 10:48:58 AM)
The reason that microsoft cant find programmers is because most programmers with a conscience would rather lance hemmoriods unprotected than work there.

Moonhead -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 10:52:16 AM)
Wouldn't Apple have the same problem finding staff in that case?

mnottertail -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 10:53:25 AM)
They go to china, although that is drying up (and dropping off the sides of the buildings).

Moonhead -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 11:00:30 AM)
That's manufacturing not design or programming, though.

tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 12:03:48 PM)
Why doesnt Microsoft use that money? Because they dont spend that much money on visas.

thompsonx -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 1:54:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy BTW FR.... just found out yesterday that the new CEO had only come in back in February... so it would seem management was changing and negotiated om good faith, laying it on the line the whole time and working hard to get an agreement. Now you are trying to tell us that all of your bullshit post were based on lack of knowledge of the situation? Don't you think it incumbant on you to acquaint yourself with the facts before you post up the mind numbingly stupid shit that have filled up your post for the past 22 pages? Now you would have us believe that the new management had no knowledge of the past ten years of attempted union busting? Did the new management seek any give backs from old management?

thompsonx -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 1:57:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Jesus h. motherfucking christ, have you not been reading the thread in which you are posting ? It has been established how much these punk ass motherfuckers are paid and that their mismanagement has put the company into bankruptsy twice in the past ten years. Why are you trying to defend a bonus/salery increase for a bunch of asswipes who have proved that they have no managemet abilities what so ever? If they had been labor they would have been fired half way through their first shift. Why do you choose to fill your post with this moronic drivil? Jesus h. motherfucking christ, have you not been reading the thread in which you are posting? Have you not paid attention that I believe Management should have been forced to give back those raises (and possibly even more) before Labor was asked for concessions? You stated that they should not get bonuses for doing their job. I showed you how a bonus can be used to help people do a job better. I wasn't saying that Hostess' management did their job, or did their job well. Unless your idea is that they were supposed to tank the company , you even mistakenly inferred that they did their job. This thread is about hostess...one might reasonably assume that you knew that.

tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 1:59:21 PM)
He came back in Feb... and in October they are giving a pay raise to management while embroiled in contract talks with unions to cut both salaries and benefits. I dont see any change in who was CEO.

thompsonx -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 1:59:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Tell that to Microsoft who has over 4,000 jobs that start at 90 grand a year, yet they can't find people skilled enough to do them. When you offer $45 an hour for a position that pays $60 an hour why is it so difficult for you to see why no one wants go work for less? quote: When a company is willing to pay the feds an additional 15K over and above what they ask for now for an H1B Visa (and STILL pay 85 - 125K a year for the position, regardless of your citizenship)....why is it so difficult for you to see any kind of concept relating to reality? Why don't you tell us just how that works? You seem to be saying that micrsoft is paying the feds 15K per visa per year...Is that what you are saying? You have also changed the pay that microsoft is paying from $45 per hour to $62.50 per hour. Please make up your mind which pay scale you are arguing. Uhmmmm....that's exactly what I'm saying....they're paying starting wages of between 85K a year ($41.00 an hour) and 125K a year ($60.00 an hour) to anyone who can do the task AND willing to pay an ADDITIONAL 15K to the feds to get people who can do the task....yeah....that's exactly what I'm saying...nothing less than that....exactly that....no less than that. There SHOULD be no confusion as to what I'm saying (unless Nouns and Verbs are your problem) because what I've said previously and what I'm saying now, at this EXACT moment...are in fact.... The same thing. I'm sure it may be somewhat complicated for you to discern but....reviewing (my) past posts, you'll find exact concurrency in all. Any questions? Why doesn't Microsoft just use some of that money to train their own employees who are looking to move up the ladder? It seems they're throwing a lot of money out there just to find people who are already trained in those jobs, when they could use that money to educate some within their already existing workforce to do the jobs they need filled. Some companies offer tuition reimbursement and encourage their employees to take continuing education so that they can be a better asset to the organization. They can't expect everyone to have the same ready-made set of skills, but people can always learn and adapt. I've heard other companies and business owners make similar complaints. "I have all these jobs to fill, but nobody with the skills to do them." But what's the problem here? Is it the educational system? Do we just not have enough skilled, educated people in this society? Is our workforce not being properly prepared to compete on a global scale in the 21st century? Or is the problem also from the other side, where jobs and skill sets have become so specialized that the number of people within each specific area of expertise becomes fewer and fewer? Systems and technologies have become so complex that just your general handyman isn't going to cut it anymore. It's not like the old days when someone could just walk in off the street and get on the job training on the assembly line. Now, they expect you to know it all before you apply for the job, and it seems that not everyone can meet those requirements. There is no shortage of u.s. citizens fully capable of filling those jobs... just a shortage of u.s. citizens willing to work for 20% to 50% less than what the job is worth thus the h1b shit.

thompsonx -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 2:03:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessInanna Oh get off it. America is still a fat tinkie eating nation just most of it is eating from the food bank at the moment, that has a shortage by the way . Its not just hostess either. The teacher's union is responsible for us having one of the worst educational systems at the mometn. You can't even work if you have a masters and start because the unions wont let you take a normal starting wage and no school will hire. but according the teacher union our educational system is in shambles because they don't make enough so the teachers don't have enough incentive. Just recently the local metal workers union wouldn't take a new contract because the company couldn't afford a the current wage anymore. the workers had to strike against their union or all the metal workers would be with out a job. I think it has a lot to do with the union. While I'm not going to argue that Unions have some responsibility in the fall of Hostess, giving exec's raises/bonuses and then turning around and asking for concessions from the Union workers is bad business. Bud, I have to (respectfully) argue here....the execs were running the show, holding the reigns....they did what they felt best and gave the plebes a chance to join. They chose not to. Wanna sit in the big chair? Buy a ticket. Damn. Missed another in there. Should start out, "While I'm not going to argue that Unions don't have some responsibility..." Totally changes things. Unions have some responsibility for the fall. The Market has some responsibility for the fall. Management has some responsibility for the fall. Since the Market shouldn't be strong-armed into being changed (you know, mandated Twinkie purchases, for example), it comes down to Union and/or Management taking a hit. Since Management salary/benefits rose, shouldn't that be reversed right off the bat? The union has absofuckinglutly no responsibility for the fall of hostess. The union took pay cuts and benifit cuts and in the end were being asked to give up even more. If you cannot pay labor what it is worth then you are not in business, close the fucking doors and sell off the hardware but do not piss on my leg and tell me it is raining.

tazzygirl -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 2:05:58 PM)
lol... its funny. Didnt these same people bitch about the bonuses bankers got after they begged for TARP? This is no different.

thompsonx -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 2:10:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl He came back in Feb... and in October they are giving a pay raise to management while embroiled in contract talks with unions to cut both salaries and benefits. I dont see any change in who was CEO. "The gunny" used to say...same shit different flies.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 3:49:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Now you would have us believe that the new management had no knowledge of the past ten years of attempted union busting? Did the new management seek any give backs from old management? Well they obviously were not busting The Teamsters. A few of The Baker labor leaders, convinced their ranks to vote down a CBA. (I wonder what that vote was?) When that CBA was imposed on them under the rules of Federal Bankruptcy, they struck. Now everybody is out of a job. Hostess had a new CEO, a bargained CBA, and were still making and shipping baked goods. Now the bakers have nothing. Well... The Baker's leaders still have jobs... but not the ranks at hostess. 18,500 out of work because a few labor leaders wanted to make a power play. Merry Christmas

thompsonx -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 3:57:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Now you would have us believe that the new management had no knowledge of the past ten years of attempted union busting? Did the new management seek any give backs from old management? Well they obviously were not busting The Teamsters. A few of The Baker labor leaders, convinced their ranks to vote down a CBA. (I wonder what that vote was?) When that CBA was imposed on them under the rules of Federal Bankruptcy, they struck. Now everybody is out of a job. Hostess had a new CEO, a bargained CBA, and were still making and shipping baked goods. Now the bakers have nothing. Well... The Baker's leaders still have jobs... but not the ranks at hostess. 18,500 out of work because a few labor leaders wanted to make a power play. Merry Christmas Your moronic post confirms that you have no clue what you are talking about. The members of the union elect the leaders of the union. You want to make it seem that the union leadership does something other than what the union members tell them to do. What is it about the 13 th. ammendment to the constitution of my country that you do not get?

DesideriScuri -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 3:59:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Jesus h. motherfucking christ, have you not been reading the thread in which you are posting ? It has been established how much these punk ass motherfuckers are paid and that their mismanagement has put the company into bankruptsy twice in the past ten years. Why are you trying to defend a bonus/salery increase for a bunch of asswipes who have proved that they have no managemet abilities what so ever? If they had been labor they would have been fired half way through their first shift. Why do you choose to fill your post with this moronic drivil? Jesus h. motherfucking christ, have you not been reading the thread in which you are posting? Have you not paid attention that I believe Management should have been forced to give back those raises (and possibly even more) before Labor was asked for concessions? You stated that they should not get bonuses for doing their job. I showed you how a bonus can be used to help people do a job better. I wasn't saying that Hostess' management did their job, or did their job well. Unless your idea is that they were supposed to tank the company , you even mistakenly inferred that they did their job. This thread is about hostess...one might reasonably assume that you knew that. Then why did you say this: Post#369 quote: Why should they get a bonus for doing their job? According to that statement, you are asserting that management did their job, tanking Hostess. And, it's not surprising to me that you didn't even include a response to my fact that I have already stated that management returning bonuses/raises as a first step before going to Unions for concessions. Very telling.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 4:06:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl lol... its funny. Didnt these same people bitch about the bonuses bankers got after they begged for TARP? This is no different. I know I did. I was pissed that bonuses were given. To be upfront and honest, I was already pissed because they got bailed out.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 4:06:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why doesnt Microsoft use that money? Because they dont spend that much money on visas. An interesting fact that I had no idea about until I made exhaustive enquiries about emigrating to FL way back in 2002... There is some buried US legislation (whether its just in FL I don't know), that any company wishing to take on employees from outside the US, they have to - A) Prove that the position is not applicable to US citizens; -or- B) Prove that there are no suitably qualified US citizens available to take up the position; C) Ensure that the prospective candidate is legally allowed to enter the US; D) Provide the necessary documentation and pay for the employees Green Card. -and- E) Agree to pay said employee 70% above the previously advertised salary to that of a US citizen. The friend I was staying at wasn't short of a few $$'s and he had several of his lawyer clients check out what was needed for me to stay in the US and work for/with him and that was one of the real nasties that came out of the woodwork. So, unless that law has been revised/repealed in the last decade, I assume it still stands. If that is still the case, then it's no wonder that US companies don't go spending $$'s on importing foreign employees - it's just not economical to do so unless there is no other choice.

thompsonx -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/27/2012 4:10:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Now you would have us believe that the new management had no knowledge of the past ten years of attempted union busting? Did the new management seek any give backs from old management? Well they obviously were not busting The Teamsters. The teamsters do not bake twinkies why do you think that truck drivers bake twinkies...please pay attention truck drivers drive trucks and bakers bake. quote: A few of The Baker labor leaders, convinced their ranks to vote down a CBA. (I wonder what that vote was?) When that CBA was imposed on them under the rules of Federal Bankruptcy, they struck. They voted to strike are you claiming that the union leaders stufed the ballot box? quote: Now everybody is out of a job. So fucking what...If I cut your pay in half and take away your health coverage will you still work for me? quote: Hostess had a new CEO, a bargained CBA, and were still making and shipping baked goods. Is it your point that now that labor wont labor management is out of a job???You wont work for free but you seem to feel that bakers should? quote: Now the bakers have nothing. Do you seriously believe that no one will buy the defunct corporation and start making the same product and not hire bakers? quote: Well... The Baker's leaders still have jobs... but not the ranks at hostess. Is it your position that there are no other bakers to be represented by the union besides the ones at hostess? quote: 18,500 out of work because a few labor leaders wanted to make a power play. No,18500 workers refuse to work for shit wages and that burns your ass and me and the 18500 bakes get a real grin out of that.

Page: << < prev 21 22 [23] 24 25 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.078125