RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs

RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (Full Version)

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Marini -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 12:09:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Dammit...one of my guilty pleasure is a Hostess Chocolate creme filled cupcake...I don't like vanilla,so the twinkie never did work for me. Anyway,I'm just back from the store,and the Hostess rack is simply gone,not there....lol I bought a "Little Debbie" box of cupcakes,their version of my Hostess treat......agrrrrrrr,it sucks,it is a definitely inferior product. Those damm bakers have now,for the worse,affected my cushy life....damm them to hell,damm them all. No more Hostess ding dongs for you! You are the one that feels that the Bakers Union/workers did the right thing. I think many of those workers are going to regret this for the rest of their lives.

SadistDave -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 12:14:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: Except the 1,000s of workers making and shipping them and who are now out of job you mean? I am still waiting on suggestions on what these almost 20,000 people should/will do. Unemployment is a blessing from The Annointed One according to Nancy Pelosi. Now 18,500 union bums can go out and be creative. Unemployment is just an extension of the union philosophy anyway. There isn't a whole lot of difference in sucking on the government tit and being in a union anyway. The only difference is who foots the bill for them to sit on their asses all day. I think they should follow the shrews advice. They should enjoy the "expansion of freedom" they find themselves in and learn a musical instrument. Take up painting. It's a safe bet that none of them will have enough ambition to start a business of their own. Of course, collecting unemployment may prove to be a little difficult for members of the Bakers Union, at least in Washington state. Requirements * You must have 680 hours of covered employment in your base year to meet the initial requirements to qualify for a claim. You must also have wages in Washington in order to file your unemployment claim against the state of Washington. * You need to give us the reason you became unemployed. * You are probably eligible if your employer laid you off for lack of work. * We have to make a decision about your eligibility if you voluntarily quit your job, were fired or suspended by your employer, or are on a leave of absence. * We will get information about your separation from both you and your employer. Both you and your employer have an opportunity to respond to each other's version of the separation. We will then issue a written decision based on the information we gathered. * You must be physically able to work, available for work, and actively seeking suitable work. Depending on how good a case Hostess makes to the Labor Board, the Bakers might just be out of luck. They walked off the job to strike and were aware of the consequences when they chose not to return. I believe the average term of unemployment right now is between 35-40 weeks. That ought to give them plenty of time to enjoy the full impact of Obamanomics since they've pared back the time people can collect unemployment. No more 99 weeks... Of course the union bosses will be just fine. They may even get raises when they convince the idiots who lost their jobs to stay in the union with some delicious fruit-filled-pie-in-the-sky dream of a better tomorrow. The 867 Hostess workers in Ohio will be in for an extra-special treat, what with the state reducing food stamps by $50 per household per month in 2013. Good times -SD-

Lucylastic -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 12:56:38 PM)
. [image]local://upfiles/228382/167D6825074E4987A6C77F803E688EF9.jpg[/image]

graceadieu -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 1:09:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini On the other hand, taking a stand can also end up with you losing everything, and living in the shelter and eating in soup kitchens. Hell, back in the day, it could end with you getting beaten or shot by thugs hired by the company in addition to that. But the workers kept at it anyway, and we have them to thank for things like the 40-hour work week and an end to child labor. Without those guys putting themselves on the line, we'd probably still have 12-year olds working 12-hour shifts in a coal mine with no safety gear or compensation if they got hurt.

Lordandmaster -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 1:26:07 PM)
Wow, a parallel universe. Well, I'm not going to repeat everything I've said about the Hostess situation in the other thread. I bet unions are also to blame for the fact that the horse-and-buggy industry went bankrupt. And what about Eastman Kodak? Unions to blame there too? Just yesterday I wanted to buy a codpiece, and it turns out those FUCKING unions destroyed the last surviving codpiece-manufacturer.

Yachtie -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 1:36:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave * You must be physically able to work, available for work, and actively seeking suitable work. Obama got that one covered. [image]local://upfiles/1352141/4869393B7DA444B899730ABBBC14EE7A.jpg[/image]

Lucylastic -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 2:13:23 PM)
Incredible to me that nobody on the right gave a shit about the 700-850,000 jobs being lost per month back in 2007-8+9 but all of a sudden, GASP its the talk of the week Blame the unions, Blame the workers, weeeeeeeeeee but for gods sake DONT blame the management. cos its all the eeebil strikes thats done it. it would be funny if it werent so pathetically obvious

slvemike4u -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 2:27:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Dammit...one of my guilty pleasure is a Hostess Chocolate creme filled cupcake...I don't like vanilla,so the twinkie never did work for me. Anyway,I'm just back from the store,and the Hostess rack is simply gone,not there....lol I bought a "Little Debbie" box of cupcakes,their version of my Hostess treat......agrrrrrrr,it sucks,it is a definitely inferior product. Those damm bakers have now,for the worse,affected my cushy life....damm them to hell,damm them all. No more Hostess ding dongs for you! You are the one that feels that the Bakers Union/workers did the right thing. I think many of those workers are going to regret this for the rest of their lives. A few quick thoughts 1)never did like the Ding Dongs...and I never posted that I did, 2) I never said they "did the right thing"....I and actually we don't know enough about everything that went into their decision to take the position they took. What I did do is defend their right to make such a decision and I avoided making some knee jerk,uninformed pronouncement that they were wrong. Sorry I couldn't jump on your bandwagon their Marini....but I hold onto the belief that they were better qualified than I to decide their own fate(as much as circumstances allow any of us to decide our fates) 3) Many of them just might regret this decision...but they made it as a group,a group brought together to negotiate for themselves from one position. Being a Union man my whole life I appreciate the fact that they had every right to do so....and I won't ,from a distance castigate them for doing so...apparently you will. On the other hand,many of them will return to work,though it seems it will have to be for another concern,under new management....and thus perhaps their lives will have been improved by this decision....I ,and certainly you,have no way of knowing what percentages will have what results. But certainly we can agree that as free Americans able to join with each other and negotiate as one entity they exercised their rights when they voted no.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/17/2012 2:28:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u I am not going to try to explain humor to you. You wouldn't be capable of doing that. quote: If you have come this far in life without understanding humor,or it's lesser cousin sarcasm....well,shit,I can't,and won't even try,to help you. Basically though ...you agreed with my post....but nit picked over my p.s. ? What axe are you grinding ? I dislike it when people make personal comments, or attacks. Ask Skipper about that. quote: Do you really,really think I hurt Fats feeling with that twinkie comment ? Do you think it was a joke about twinkies...or about fats ? Don't know if it hurt his feelings. Regardless of what mn might think, I have no problem with you calling him "Fats." That's easy to figure out where that comes from. It's the linking it to Twinkies that I found uncalled for. Whether he's fat or not, I don't know, and I don't know if you know why he's fat. Had you used a smiley to denote humor, we'd not be having this convo at all. It's an internet thing. Unless you actually show that you're being sarcastic or joking, it can be lost (see how important non-verbal communication can be?).

selfbnd411 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 2:38:01 PM)
quote: Depending on how good a case Hostess makes to the Labor Board, the Bakers might just be out of luck. They walked off the job to strike and were aware of the consequences when they chose not to return. American labor law makes a clear distinction between quitting a job and going on strike. Thanks for playing.

selfbnd411 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 2:43:05 PM)
quote: 3) Many of them just might regret this decision.. I don't think they will. Here's why: I read that their salary when IB went bankrupt the first time almost 10 years ago was $48000/yr. Remember, these are skilled workers (bakers by trade), not box stuffers. The company's ultimatum was for a salary of $22,000/yr. $22,000/yr is not much over McDonald's pay. In the workers' best case scenario, they can get another baker's job. Maybe not a $48k/yr job, but certainly above minimum wage. Win. In the worst case, they get the lowest paying job they can get--running the fryolator at McDonalds. Pay? $22,000/yr. Not a win, but nothing has been lost.

leonine -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 2:58:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 quote: 3) Many of them just might regret this decision.. I don't think they will. Here's why: I read that their salary when IB went bankrupt the first time almost 10 years ago was $48000/yr. Remember, these are skilled workers (bakers by trade), not box stuffers. The company's ultimatum was for a salary of $22,000/yr. $22,000/yr is not much over McDonald's pay. In the workers' best case scenario, they can get another baker's job. Maybe not a $48k/yr job, but certainly above minimum wage. Win. In the worst case, they get the lowest paying job they can get--running the fryolator at McDonalds. Pay? $22,000/yr. Not a win, but nothing has been lost. Plus, in the next job - even if it's McDs - they can be backed by a union that's proved the hard way that both the leaders and the members are ready to go to the wire for their rights. Considering that a depression is supposed to be the time when workers can safely be screwed because they're too scared to fight, that's a longer term gain than hanging on in a dying firm.

slvemike4u -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/17/2012 3:01:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u I am not going to try to explain humor to you. You wouldn't be capable of doing that. quote: If you have come this far in life without understanding humor,or it's lesser cousin sarcasm....well,shit,I can't,and won't even try,to help you. Basically though ...you agreed with my post....but nit picked over my p.s. ? What axe are you grinding ? I dislike it when people make personal comments, or attacks. Ask Skipper about that. quote: Do you really,really think I hurt Fats feeling with that twinkie comment ? Do you think it was a joke about twinkies...or about fats ? Don't know if it hurt his feelings. Regardless of what mn might think, I have no problem with you calling him "Fats." That's easy to figure out where that comes from. It's the linking it to Twinkies that I found uncalled for. Whether he's fat or not, I don't know, and I don't know if you know why he's fat. Had you used a smiley to denote humor, we'd not be having this convo at all. It's an internet thing. Unless you actually show that you're being sarcastic or joking, it can be lost (see how important non-verbal communication can be?). What makes you think I give a shit what you like or dislike,lol I doubt I will be asking "Skipper" anything.....cause I don't fucking care [:)]

SadistDave -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 3:02:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 quote: Depending on how good a case Hostess makes to the Labor Board, the Bakers might just be out of luck. They walked off the job to strike and were aware of the consequences when they chose not to return. American labor law makes a clear distinction between quitting a job and going on strike. Thanks for playing. Under normal circumstances I would agree. Continuing to strike after being told of the companies willingness to close the business is a little unusual and will have something to do with how they are dealt with by the Labor Board. You have the right to strike. Yes. But when the choice is given to take an 8% pay cut or a 100% pay cut and you choose the 100% pay cut..? I think Hostess has a precedent setting case here. The union bosses knew that the jobs would disappear permanently and still refused to return to work. The union made an informed, conscious decision which directly led to their unemployment. They did, in fact, quit voluntarily. The right to strike is a completely different argument here. They exercised their right to strike and engaged in collective bargaining. They refused to go back to work even though they were fully aware of the fact that the jobs would simply cease to exist if they did not take a pay cut. This is not a normal aspect of union negotiations, and Hostess will have a lot of leeway when they go to dispute union unemployment claims because of the unique nature and consequences of this strike. Thanks for playing. -SD-

Owner59 -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 3:11:43 PM)
Money was never the problem.....eBay is proof of that.... They could have worked something out.

leonine -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 3:13:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic . [image]local://upfiles/228382/167D6825074E4987A6C77F803E688EF9.jpg[/image] Yeah, but you're saying that like it's a bad thing?

DesideriScuri -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 their jobs (11/17/2012 3:15:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u What makes you think I give a shit what you like or dislike,lol I doubt I will be asking "Skipper" anything.....cause I don't fucking care [:)] Boy, you certainly spend a lot of time on something you don't fucking care about.

thompsonx -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 3:37:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion and since they are the owners, won't make stupid work rules that will cost THEM unecessary costs. Perhaps you could tell us just what "stupid work rules" you object to.

Lucylastic -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 3:39:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leonine Yeah, but you're saying that like it's a bad thing? Nooooooo I would never...now if Lays ever went out of business I might be more upset:)

thompsonx -> RE: A few Labor Leader, cost 18,500 people their jobs (11/17/2012 3:46:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy I am sure the Union protectionist will try and obfuscate this thread but attacking the nutritional valve of Wonderbread and Hostess HoHos but here is a classic example of a Union selling its rank and file down the drain. The Teamsters understood in this economy concessions had to be made but for some reason The Baker's decided they wanted Hostess shut down, their assets sold off and a fraction of their rank and file, rehired down the line for less money and less benefits. 18,500 people without a job Let's hear a hardy well done for the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union! Lets hold hands and sing the Internationale! Merry Christmas! OH... and for the people who might try and hijack over the nutritional value of a Twinkie... Somebody else will be making and selling them along with the rest of the Hostess line. UNION STRIKE KILLS CUPCAKE KING Once again your insipid moronic post gives us a clear insight into your refusal to accept the 13th. ammendment to the u.s. constitution.

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