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Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 8:23:51 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I love the CONCEPT of mentoring but in my experience the reality often sucks.

The root of the problem is twofold. Those most eager to volunteer are those who have the least business doing so. Couple that with those most in need often make the worst choices in.mentors and its a mess.

The other problem is most mentors are one trick ponies, they teach THEIR way, not seeing the mentee as an individual and helping them find their own path.

You want to learn and grow? Ask LOTS of people advice, seek multiple viewpoints. Watch people and find the ones whos actions match their words but dont seek one, seek out as many as you can find.

Go to a munch and watch everyone, learn from everyone, even uf all you learn is NOT THAT! That is still a valuable lesson. Read books even if you dont like them. Read forums like this one, with a grain of salt of course, lol!
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 8:28:51 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		I think you're right, it has to do with the decision making abilities of the newbie. Master was mentored by a couple that had been married for many years. He was lucky, he had wonderful mentors.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 8:59:35 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I love the CONCEPT of mentoring but in my experience the reality often sucks.

The root of the problem is twofold. Those most eager to volunteer are those who have the least business doing so. Couple that with those most in need often make the worst choices in.mentors and its a mess.

The other problem is most mentors are one trick ponies, they teach THEIR way, not seeing the mentee as an individual and helping them find their own path.

You want to learn and grow? Ask LOTS of people advice, seek multiple viewpoints. Watch people and find the ones whos actions match their words but dont seek one, seek out as many as you can find.

Go to a munch and watch everyone, learn from everyone, even uf all you learn is NOT THAT! That is still a valuable lesson. Read books even if you dont like them. Read forums like this one, with a grain of salt of course, lol!


I agree with you 100%.

Good in theory, usually bad in practice.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:09:45 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Yup, agreed. Just to point this out though, you would reasonably qualify as a mentor for me and that didn't turn out so horribly.

I think the difference was that I wasn't engaging with you on some fantasy basis. We weren't enacting some kinky "mentoring scene". For me this was just another life experience that I was trying to learn about and you were someone who knew something more than I did and seemed fairly rational and level-headed.

In other words, I approached the situation with the genuine intent to learn and so I did.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:13:54 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Yup, agreed. Just to point this out though, you would reasonably qualify as a mentor for me and that didn't turn out so horribly.

I think the difference was that I wasn't engaging with you on some fantasy basis. We weren't enacting some kinky "mentoring scene". For me this was just another life experience that I was trying to learn about and you were someone who knew something more than I did and seemed fairly rational and level-headed.

In other words, I approached the situation with the genuine intent to learn and so I did.


Thanks Jeff! I do like to think I brought out your inner pervert just a bit.

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:14:48 AM   
DomMeinCT


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Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

In other words, I approached the situation with the genuine intent to learn and so I did.


And he had the wisdom and willingness to share what he'd learned with you.

That's the problem with mentors (which I agree with Michael)....there are more that say they are than truly are.

_____________________________

The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances:
if there is any reaction, both are transformed.
~ Carl Jung

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:20:33 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Well, at least you didn't throw us all in the same boat, which is usually what happens when the subject of mentoring comes up.

I'll even agree with the point of asking various people. I'm the first person to say that leather isn't for everybody and certainly My formality with it doesn't suit a lot of folks out there. When it comes to the topping side, I don't think there is anything wrong with showing a person the way that I do something and mentioning someone else's name who may do it differently. I'm also smart enough to know My own strengths and weaknesses. For example, I'm not the most experienced with suspensions, but I know who is and who I'd recommend.

This is the first place that I've lived where options aren't what I've been used to before. It's easy to find lots of people to teach and access to them when it's someplace like GA or CA. Here? Not so much. There's a lot more to this state than Anchorage, Juneau, and Fairbanks. In the winter, you may not get that many opportunities to see a wide range of people play or have a lot of chances to see how a dynamic works just from munches, etc. For a place like this, mentoring can be a good option.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:36:00 AM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline 		I like this thread a lot. As a submissive, I would never be a mentor, but I like the philosophy of using a variety of resources. As a teacher, I was trained to use a variety of approaches in my classroom because children are not "one size fits all," and the more ways they can make connections the more meaningful the learning will be. It seems to me that mentoring would be the same way. That is why I like hearing from many different people, even if they whack me with a 2x4. There's almost always something useful in there, even if it is illumination about what ISN'T good for me.

The things that makes a a little sad is that many times the Dominant who is frustrated with mentoring and the way it is so poorly done at times is often the very sort of Dominant who would make an excellent mentor.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:36:20 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomMeinCT
That's the problem with mentors (which I agree with Michael)....there are more that say they are than truly are.

For the record, I wrote my post the way I did on purpose. My own suspicion is that the "problem" (assuming this is a problem) lies more with the students that are not students than the mentors who are not mentors. I don't believe the line "Sure I'll teach you about BDSM. Open your mouth and spread your legs" would actually work with any student really seeking to learn.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DomMeinCT)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:40:17 AM   
RemoteUser


Posts: 2854
Joined: 5/10/2011
Status: offline 		I haven't mentored anyone in years, but when I did it was advice, not sex.

In fact, I turned down the sex when it was offered. I was there to help them get their head in the right space, not open legs.

Why does it seem when this topic comes up, that the focus for mentoring is on play instead of wisdom? Or is that just me?

_____________________________

There is nothing worse than being right. Instead of being right, then, try to be open. It is more difficult, and more rewarding.


(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:41:08 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub
As a submissive, I would never be a mentor


Why not? I firmly believe that the best mentors are those of the same orientation. An experienced female sub mentoring a female sub is ideal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

I haven't mentored anyone in years, but when I did it was advice, not sex.

In fact, I turned down the sex when it was offered. I was there to help them get their head in the right space, not open legs.

Why does it seem when this topic comes up, that the focus for mentoring is on play instead of wisdom? Or is that just me?


I agree. A mentor should not be playing or having sex with the mentoree.



< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 11/20/2012 9:42:17 AM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to cordeliasub)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:45:39 AM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

I haven't mentored anyone in years, but when I did it was advice, not sex.

In fact, I turned down the sex when it was offered. I was there to help them get their head in the right space, not open legs.

Why does it seem when this topic comes up, that the focus for mentoring is on play instead of wisdom? Or is that just me?


As a submissive can I just say Thank You for saying this. That is what I needed. I wasn't asking someone to teach me how to be tied up, I wanted to know about submission and what a good Dominant expects both outside and inside the "bedroom."

(in reply to RemoteUser)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:52:11 AM   
littleone14


Posts: 185
Joined: 7/4/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub
As a submissive, I would never be a mentor


Why not? I firmly believe that the best mentors are those of the same orientation. An experienced female sub mentoring a female sub is ideal.






I was thinking the exact same thing. I've gone to various people for advice (including you, Oside!) that run the gamut from experienced subs, subs that are in the same part of their journey as I am, to experienced doms. Everyone has a different take, and everyone's experiences have helped me grow and find my own path. But the experienced subs are the ones that can give me the best advice since they've been there and gotten thru it!

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:57:21 AM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline 		I got a lot of good perspective from experienced submissives as well, especially from the learning site I joined when we first began exploring. At some point a few years from now I might be able to offer some wisdom, but right now I am definitely a beginner.

(in reply to littleone14)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 9:59:14 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

I haven't mentored anyone in years, but when I did it was advice, not sex.

In fact, I turned down the sex when it was offered. I was there to help them get their head in the right space, not open legs.

Why does it seem when this topic comes up, that the focus for mentoring is on play instead of wisdom? Or is that just me?

I couldn't say if it was just you or not.

When I get asked to teach people, it generally runs on both parts. For the play side, people see Me play publicly doing a wide range of things. At minimum, I think I'm seen as a jack of all trades type of top. For one scene, you'll see impact play. Another, you'll see needles. The third might be fire. That can look kind of appealing in the same person that you want to learn from. For our small community, a female top looking to learn from a female top, I'm not a bad option.

The other side is the protocol and poly stuff. That's the part where I think you have to see a dynamic or the household or get a good feel for the participants to decide if there is something there. It's a lot more in-depth. Determining if a scene is successful takes an hour or two. Determining is a dynamic is successful is going to take a lot more exposure.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to RemoteUser)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 10:26:13 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I believe that wisdom can not be taught but it can be learnt. Wisdom comes with experience.
I have been fortunate enough to have a few mentors but the woman who filled me with inspiration and a hunger to know and learn more was a pro Domme. It wasn't so much her skill with a needle or her cruel accuracy of the cane but her ability to put the fear of god in a man with nothing more than a whisper and a wry smile. Her mental domination would have any psychologist wanting to write about it! She made me realize that no matter how good I was with my tools of the trade, if I couldn't mentally captivate a submissive, I had nothing.

I have taught people both in workshop environments and on a one to one basis but that's in certain things such as needle play and fisting. I did take a dominant woman under my wing when she was very new to this. This woman, previously a submissive had a special kind of sparkle in her eyes when she dominated. A truly dominant women really does captivate me. I find myself homing in on them. She is an awesome dominant now and she always gives me too much credit for that. She would of been awesome anyway but like she says, when she met me she got thrown in at the deep end!

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 10:36:24 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

The things that makes a a little sad is that many times the Dominant who is frustrated with mentoring and the way it is so poorly done at times is often the very sort of Dominant who would make an excellent mentor.


If that was an oblique reference to me, let me answer it. I, you we all mentor here every day. The MASSIVE difference is,here it is not done in a vacuum. If say "X is true" and all sorts of people say I am full of shit, few will believe me. However, if I am mentoring you in private, I could convince someone of all sorts of stupid crap.

In addition, this forum isnt all that anonymous, many,of us have met in real life or at least know someone,who knows someone. Neebies posting here have to earn,their spurs a bit. Its actually a rather special place.

(in reply to cordeliasub)
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RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 10:56:58 AM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

If that was an oblique reference to me, let me answer it. I, you we all mentor here every day. The MASSIVE difference is,here it is not done in a vacuum. If say "X is true" and all sorts of people say I am full of shit, few will believe me. However, if I am mentoring you in private, I could convince someone of all sorts of stupid crap.

In addition, this forum isnt all that anonymous, many,of us have met in real life or at least know someone,who knows someone. Neebies posting here have to earn,their spurs a bit. Its actually a rather special place.

Sections of this entire forum are akin to a large, diverse, and often contentious panel of mentors. Questions and topic threads get posed, experienced and newbie alike chime in, and we get a wealth of viewpoints and "war story" experiences to consider. I think it's so much better than a single mentor, for the "one trick pony" reason Michael mentioned. I've found that what it takes is investing the time to read here extensively. Then we have to make the effort to think for ourselves and sort what we believe is the wheat from the chaff.

I appreciate the time those who have been around for a long time are still willing to spend posting here. I hope you all get as much out of posting here as the newer ones get from reading.

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 11:04:47 AM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub

The things that makes a a little sad is that many times the Dominant who is frustrated with mentoring and the way it is so poorly done at times is often the very sort of Dominant who would make an excellent mentor.


If that was an oblique reference to me, let me answer it. I, you we all mentor here every day. The MASSIVE difference is,here it is not done in a vacuum. If say "X is true" and all sorts of people say I am full of shit, few will believe me. However, if I am mentoring you in private, I could convince someone of all sorts of stupid crap.

In addition, this forum isnt all that anonymous, many,of us have met in real life or at least know someone,who knows someone. Neebies posting here have to earn,their spurs a bit. Its actually a rather special place.


Oh, I definitely agree. I just joined a couple of weeks or so ago, and all I am at this point is a few posts and a picture. My statement was kind of a general observation. But it was also a possibly backhanded compliment? Because the posts of yours that I have read seem to be very well thought out and wise. I am learning as I read that there are certain posters whose posts should perk my attention, and the list is growing :)

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Why I dislike mentoring - 11/20/2012 11:11:31 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cordeliasub
My statement was kind of a general observation.

I interpreted your statement to mean, "the 'good' dominants won't touch 'mentoring' because it's so tainted by the 'sex mentors'".

If I have that right I think you're mistaken. For starters, what I think of when I think of "dominant personality" doesn't get so easily pushed around. Secondly, there's a connection between the desire to mentor and the desire to dominate in a lot of folks I know. What I suspect (and know from personal experience) is that plenty of very credible, very knowledgeable people are willing to mentor. They just don't call it that... or "slave training" or anything else. They tend to call it "hanging out in my living room".

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to cordeliasub)
Profile   Post #: 20
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