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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 7:17:26 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Well hell. I am an atheist, and no one told me I am supposed to get my panties in a bunch over Christmas and/or Thanksgiving. Now I wish I hadn't bought my love that $1000 TV as a present for a holiday I am supposed to be panty-bunched about.
Honestly Heretic, are you serious? This atheist spent yesterday cooking dinner for 20 people because I can't stand the thought of anyone being alone on a holiday, so when I hear of someone who doesn't have a place to go, I invite them to my house.
I really don't think I can stand a month of listening to whining about the "War on Christmas." Fuck the morons who believe that shit.

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 7:35:57 AM   
Marc2b


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Status: offline 		Never underestimate the power of tradition. Christmas exists because the church knew that it could never stamp out the pagan holidays that preceded it. It (and Thanksgiving and Easter, etc) continue to be celebrated by people who are not particularly religious for no other reason than they have always celebrated it... myself included.

I am an agnostic. I believe in the possibility of a creative intelligence responsible for the existence of the universe that, for lack of a better term, could be called "God." I do not believe in any of the gods purported to exist by different cultures around the world. This includes that sadistic psychopath Yahweh. Yet I still celebrate Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Why? Because I always have. I enjoyed it growing up and I continue to enjoy it today. I enjoy getting together with family members I haven't seen in a while. I enjoy the good cooking and watching the delight of the little ones. Mostly I enjoy the sense of continuity.

As for Thanksgiving in particular, one doesn't necessarily need to be thankful to any particular god. In our day to day lives it is easy to take for granted the simple but important things like family, friends, and home. So I think it is a good idea to take a day out of the year to just step out of the rat race, gather together, and reflect upon what good fortune we have but often forget.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 11/23/2012 8:17:42 AM >

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 8:08:41 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

the Pilgrims immigrated as part of a commercial venture and that they introduced sexism, racism, anti-homosexual bigotry, jails, and the class system.[1]


I might be persuaded that the Native Americans didn't have jails... but no hierarchies? No sexism? No bigotry of any kind? What a crock of shit! Native Americans are human beings... which means they have all of the human failings just like the rest of us.

While it is true that the "first" Thanksgiving (like pretty much all of history all around the world) has been mythologized, beware of other people's reinterpretations which are often nothing more than new myths. It is true that the Colonists and the Native Americans often fought but it is often forgot that some tribes were allies with the Colonists against rival tribes. There were all sorts of shifting alliances.

I've heard so many different versions of what "really" happened at the first Thanksgiving that I know longer know what to believe other than some people sat down and had a nice meal together.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 11/23/2012 8:19:06 AM >

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 8:12:31 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		I think that the atheist religion does not forbid the eating of turkey.

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 9:16:07 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Now that's an odd thing, Mari. Christmas as a Christian holiday is an overlay on a much older tradition, and the US cultural holiday bears little relationship to anything faith-based, beyond the faith in Santa.


Yes atheists generally celebrate the US cultural holiday which involves giving gifts to each other on dec. 25th. Atheists also often have little interest in having the Christian holiday which occurs on the same date shoved in their faces, when that happens you end up with atheists pushing back.

Thanksgiving, the US cultural holiday also bears little relationship to anything faith-based and since believers generally haven't used the day as an excuse to shove Jesus in our faces *cough* *cough* the rest of us really haven't seen a need to shove back.



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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 9:30:40 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		At what point does it stop being "celebrated" and starts being "pushed"?

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 11:31:07 AM   
crazyml


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Status: offline 		Hmm... Lemme check with my bud, she's an ultra orthodox atheist ;-)

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 11:35:05 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Well hell. I am an atheist, and no one told me I am supposed to get my panties in a bunch over Christmas and/or Thanksgiving. Now I wish I hadn't bought my love that $1000 TV as a present for a holiday I am supposed to be panty-bunched about.

That sounds more like Jehovah's Witnesses than atheists to me, frankly.


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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 11:51:10 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

At what point does it stop being "celebrated" and starts being "pushed"?


When someone sees $$$'s in it and it becomes a truly commercial enterprise.

It's no longer a celebration - it's a money-making machine.

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 12:15:13 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

At what point does it stop being "celebrated" and starts being "pushed"?


When someone sees $$$'s in it and it becomes a truly commercial enterprise.

It's no longer a celebration - it's a money-making machine.




Now that is an interesting take, Freedomdwarf. My own perspective is that the pushing of the religious aspect of Christmas was a backlash to the increasing commercialization of the holiday.

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 12:24:07 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

At what point does it stop being "celebrated" and starts being "pushed"?


When someone sees $$$'s in it and it becomes a truly commercial enterprise.

It's no longer a celebration - it's a money-making machine.




Now that is an interesting take, Freedomdwarf. My own perspective is that the pushing of the religious aspect of Christmas was a backlash to the increasing commercialization of the holiday.

I'll definitely agree to that.

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 1:39:58 PM   
LonDom61


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Status: offline 		And it's not "those" (or us) "damned atheists" that built that money machine that has then led to the backlash by the Christian Contingent.

That money machine was built by capitalists. And, looking at particular examples and the statistics (80% or more of North Americans are Christian), most of the big capitalists are Christian.

CrazyML: love the "ultra-orthodox atheist" idea. I'm gonna do some pondering on possible branches & their characteristics. Thanks for that.


< Message edited by LonDom61 -- 11/23/2012 1:44:21 PM >

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 3:00:23 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LonDom61
love the "ultra-orthodox atheist" idea. I'm gonna do some pondering on possible branches & their characteristics. Thanks for that.




Let us know what you come up with. I'll be interested to see the atheist take on the atheists who are mostly just mad at their parents, and taking it out on God

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 3:10:30 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I'll be interested to see the atheist take on the atheists who are mostly just mad at their parents, and taking it out on God


If I ever meet one I'll let you know.

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 3:14:05 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		I'm happy to make introductions, Gotsteel, though I have helped a few of them come to broader vision of God than what the family fundy church provided.

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 3:47:32 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I'll be interested to see the atheist take on the atheists who are mostly just mad at their parents, and taking it out on God

If I ever meet one I'll let you know.

Bait => Fish

K.

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 4:45:19 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: LonDom61
love the "ultra-orthodox atheist" idea. I'm gonna do some pondering on possible branches & their characteristics. Thanks for that.



I'll be interested to see the atheist take on the atheists who are mostly just mad at their parents, and taking it out on God


Do you really believe that's why Aetheists are that way?

I mean, if they don't believe God exists, how can they be taking anything out on him....or her.....or it.


< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 11/23/2012 5:05:09 PM >

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 4:50:05 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: LonDom61
love the "ultra-orthodox atheist" idea. I'm gonna do some pondering on possible branches & their characteristics. Thanks for that.



I'll be interested to see the atheist take on the atheists who are mostly just mad at their parents, and taking it out on God


Do you really believe that's why Aetheists are that way?


Undoubtedly. It is a matter of faith in a certain element of the christian world.

The fact that some people find the concept of a sky fairy who started off as a war god in a semitic pantheon and then became the one and only sky fairy but then had a child who was also the one and only sky fairy utterly ridiculous is something they cannot even consider because it might lead to thinking and of course that leads to more atheists.

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 5:26:20 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Do you really believe that's why Aetheists are that way?



All atheists, Hill? No. Absolutely not. Some percentage of atheists? Oh you betcha.

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RE: Should atheists participate in Thanksgiving? - 11/23/2012 5:37:53 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Do you really believe that's why Aetheists are that way?



All atheists, Hill? No. Absolutely not. Some percentage of atheists? Oh you betcha.

OK, that's cool. I mean "Some percentage" could be...........3. Obviously, there's way the fuck more than 3 angry Aetheists (or even 3000) out there but I don't see them taking over whole networks and political parties to press their message tax free. Do you?

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 11/23/2012 5:38:14 PM >

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