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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 12:33:13 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HollyS

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Online is quite real in my opinion, but it isn't real S&M, it isn't real sex, it isn't real relationships, it isn't much of anything, it is just "real online" and NOTHING more. Combine that with the fact that online self selects for people who often don't have real life relationships and tend not to have any real life S&M experience, you have a recipe for disaster and broken hearts.

I think you forgot a few critical words here: "I don't think," "I don't believe," and "I speak only for myself," are all conspicuously missing. If it's never worked for you or anyone you know, fine. But you don't speak for me, my friends, or the millions of other people who have found love, friendship and yes, sex in an online environment. The reality still exists even if you can't imagine it.

Aside from creating a platform for your absolutist opinion, was there a greater purpose to this post? If there was supposed to be some reason for posting such a judgemental dogmatic bit aside from making you feel superiour to those who have online as a part of their lives, it's been lost.

~Holly

I did notice * in my opinion* at the beginning of the post. Why do the disclaimers have to be written over and over when it must be patently clear that what's written IS exactly that? It's a little tedious.

agirl

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 12:36:11 PM

darkinshadows

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

There is a living breathing soul in a prostitute too but is that sex? Is it a relationship? Is it the same as living with someone? While the acts look the same, they are in fact very different things. Same goes for online and real life, they are very different things, one is a pale reflection of the other.

As for the blow up doll, I didn't use it as an anology, I used it as a question.

Is it sex with a prostitute? Well, if its more than talking - then yes.

Is it a relationship. For some - yes.

Is it the same as living with someone? No - sometimes it is even deeper! Depending on the relationship.

Neither is pale in comparrison - it is just different. You are dismissing something and in a sense ridiculing it just because it isnt something you can do... nor even want to do. There is a difference. No two snowflakes are alike - but doesn't make one more important than the other.

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 12:40:54 PM

Clothespingirl

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This whole question reminds me of that notorious scandal when a certain HPG (Horny Paper Geek) named Robert Browning fancied that he was in love with another poetical poseur, Elizabeth Barrett. He started writing her letters - just words on paper, he didn't even have a phone or webcam! - and she joined him in the pathetic illusion of real emotion. She actually ran away from home and married this geek, and tragically, under the delusion that they had established a real relationship... they lived happily ever after.

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 12:43:42 PM

Tikkiee

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quote:

but it isn't real S&M, it isn't real sex, it isn't real relationships, it isn't much of anything, it is just "real online" and NOTHING more

First, I would have to ask you to define REAL S&M, REAL SEX, and please, let us all know what a REAL RELATIONSHIP is.

It is perfectly alright to say that it does not FOLLOW YOUR OWN DEFINITIONS of the words. But to sit here and say that everyone else is just play-acting if they do so online, is really quite narrow-minded.
Just becasue it does not work for YOU, does not mean that the dynamic is not there for someone else.
Get off your almighty pedestal and stop preaching.

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 12:46:24 PM

jadedshadow

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

There's a reason for the saying that a picture paints a thousand words. To me, a single touch creates a thousand pictures. Online is what is it, but telling me that your soft touch sends shivers up my spine is nothing like your soft touch sending shivers up my spine. I'm a tactile creature. I don't apologize for it. I fully acknowledge that there are those out there who don't require the tactile sensations which are available in S/m and I respect that others do not require one to physically kneel before them to call themselves a D/s couple but at the same time, you don't have to add flavorings to homemade ice cream to still call it homemade ice cream. The sugar will make it sweet, but it just isn't as tasty as it could be if you add a drop of two of cherry extract. If online works for you and it's enough .. then don't worry if others think it's not enough for them.

Celeste

I like your spin on this BitaTruble, and agreed, the "sugar" is what makes the "homeade icecream" sweet, and the flavoring adds to it, and some don't need the flavoring. Each to their own, I'm in total agreeance. To me, I'm not "worried" about what others think.. I'm concerned that it's getting too much bad press and that others (including myself - when I first started with this) won't give it a chance, and could be missing out on a great opportunity to explore more about themselves. What works me up about it so much is that when Master and I started this we ran into a lot of brickwalls 'cause I went running to people here in the chatrooms and reading on the forums trying to get a better perspective on it, and asking myself the question "is this for real?" The response appeared to be a resounding NO from everyone. Why I trusted strangers (and thought to be friends) over my own heart and my chosen and accepted Masters words I'll never know.. Anyways, we've jumped those hurdles and are moving on - finally - and I don't need other people's approval. I just want to let people out there know there is a flip side to the coin is all. I'm just saying, try the whole "don't knock it 'til you try it' idea, and then realize each person's experience will vary and once, twice, or even a third time, still doesn't mean all situations are going to end in the same manner as the others did.

< Message edited by jadedshadow -- 6/16/2006 12:50:13 PM >

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 12:49:28 PM

CrappyDom

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quote:

You are assuming that there is no "relationship" behind an online power exchange.

Uh, no. By definition, we are discussing relationships. What is under discussion is what sort of relationships they are and how they do or do not relate to real world relationships.

quote:

an analogy or something you were using to try to make a point).

Uh, there is a definition of analogy, you might try reading up on it, they are great for communicating ideas. However, there are other ways of making a point, one of which is sarcasm, another one you might look up. See that was sarcasm, so was the question.

quote:

That's probably why your experiences in that area have sucked.

I never said what they were like, they were fine but they are apples and oranges to real life.

quote:

You have also made it clear that it is not bdsm or not rewarding unless you have a body to touch, tits to squeeze, squirting to happen, and all the other physical aspects of bdsm; the fact that you may have this impact on a woman, but not get to SEE it or TOUCH it in person shows your inability to think outside the box.

It?

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 12:53:09 PM

juliaoceania

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OMG clothespingirl.. that is priceless. Did you know that during WWII that many many men came home and married their penpals they never had met before in person? Most of those marriages were successful too, much higher level of staying together than other marriages of the time.

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 12:53:43 PM

FelinePersuasion

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*yawns* these whole it's real vs's it's not real threads are boreing. If it's real enough to the people doing online then in their world it's real.

If it doesn't work for all the nay sayers then for them it's not real.

Very simple.

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 12:57:43 PM

Chaingang

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Wow, what a lot of bullshit.

Online and/or exclusively verbal communications are ALWAYS hampered by the use of imprecise language, mistaken meaning, and projecting into areas where there is a pointed lack of information. Many of these same problems exist in face to face verbal communications also, but they are at least partly ameliorated by non-verbal cues and other types of gestural information. Cams might help with some of this stuff, but bandwidth and technical issues might also spoil the fun too.

[Digression: The Browning anecdote is amusing, but let's not pretend that those two people didn't have a LOT to learn about each other despite the letter writing. It was also a time when people were under greater social pressure to stay together regardless of actual desire to do so. Does one imagine that Browning wrote a poem like "My Last Duchess" for no reason at all?]

But in matters tending toward the sexual or quasi-sexual, verbal communications may be entirely unnecessary when face to face and flesh to flesh. People forming the animal with two backs don't need a lot of words to get their points across. Having an actual ass to smack is more interesting by far than merely imagining one. C'mon...!

If online is all you can have for whatever reason - fine, so be it. But don't pretend it is in any way even close to what people can share when they are skin to skin. That's absurd.

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 12:58:49 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

quote:

but it isn't real S&M, it isn't real sex, it isn't real relationships, it isn't much of anything, it is just "real online" and NOTHING more

First, I would have to ask you to define REAL S&M, REAL SEX, and please, let us all know what a REAL RELATIONSHIP is.

Real S&M has to have physical contact and presence. Jerking off over a computer or showing your ass to a camcorder just ain't real to me, its pretending. You can be what the hell you want to be in front of a computer. It really doesn't matter who is on the other side of the computer either because yyou don't have to know them because you are in the safety of your own home. Real sex has actual pentration at some point, not cumming over a monitor, not emailed pictures, not words over a microphone or IM. It is real people in the same physical environment. Online is ersatz, its a pretence and anyone having experienced real S&M would find online not even a shadow of the real thing. If online is your thing, then fine but it's nothing like the real thing and never will be, it is online games, nothing else.

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 1:00:22 PM

Littlepita

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A lot of you know that I met my Dom online, fell in love and changed my whole life to move to be with him. So, hell yeah, “real life” is vastly different then online. It’s like night and day!

I know that spending hours a day with someone online and on the phone can have a profound influence on feelings, and can/does make it a very real relationship. I lived it for 10 months and it was very real…in my heart and in my soul. But, it wasn’t real to my body until he touched me.

I can’t really speak of what it was like to “Do” D/s online. We just didn’t do that sort of thing. Sure we talked a great deal about D/s and what we wanted out of our relationship once we were together. We covered numerous topics on the subject of BDSM.

Now that we have been living together for the last 4 months, things are still wonderful. However, the dynamics of living day in day out as a D/s couple are challenging to say the least. Just today, we had an issue come up that threw us both for a loop in how we see ourselves as D/s couple. My Dom has even decided that he needs to pull back a little until we have the time to renegotiate what exactly we feel our roles are.

People….relationships….life…are all very complicated.

Like, I have said many times I give thanks for the internet and it bringing the most wonderful man into my life. Being able to communicate with my Dom for so many months was an amazing opportunity that has worked for us. I will say that if I had to do it over again, I don’t think I would. The frustration and longing aren’t something I would want to put myself through again.

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 1:00:49 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

quote:

You have also made it clear that it is not bdsm or not rewarding unless you have a body to touch, tits to squeeze, squirting to happen, and all the other physical aspects of bdsm; the fact that you may have this impact on a woman, but not get to SEE it or TOUCH it in person shows your inability to think outside the box.

It?

"IT" refers to (the experience of) BDSM.

Again, your reading/writing comprenension is low -- this is probably why you can't grasp what we are talking about. And since you cannot do it, it's much easier to bash it, right?

Akasha

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 1:05:18 PM

CrappyDom

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Akasha,

How do you touch an experience?

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 1:14:16 PM

ModeratorEleven

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Folks, please try to keep this from getting personal.

XI

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 1:18:39 PM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

How do you touch an experience?

like this :::::touching:::::

< Message edited by marieToo -- 6/16/2006 1:20:58 PM >

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 1:21:21 PM

Chaingang

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:::::poke:::::

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 1:26:39 PM

Tikkiee

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quote:

Real S&M has to have physical contact and presence. Jerking off over a computer or showing your ass to a camcorder just ain't real to me, its pretending. You can be what the hell you want to be in front of a computer. It really doesn't matter who is on the other side of the computer either because yyou don't have to know them because you are in the safety of your own home. Real sex has actual pentration at some point, not cumming over a monitor, not emailed pictures, not words over a microphone or IM. It is real people in the same physical environment. Online is ersatz, its a pretence and anyone having experienced real S&M would find online not even a shadow of the real thing. If online is your thing, then fine but it's nothing like the real thing and never will be, it is online games, nothing else.

I am sorry, but just because this is the 'framework' that YOU use, does not mean that it is the only one.
For many people, online is just as REAL as face to face is. For them, it is NOT a game.

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 1:29:21 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita
Just today, we had an issue come up that threw us both for a loop in how we see ourselves as D/s couple. My Dom has even decided that he needs to pull back a little until we have the time to renegotiate what exactly we feel our roles are.

*amazing applause and crowing*

You guys are awesome for talking it out, making a solid decision to work it out together and having the guts to share a "less than perfect pie in the sky" moment with us.

You can do it!

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 1:37:05 PM

Clothespingirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Did you know that during WWII that many many men came home and married their penpals they never had met before in person? Most of those marriages were successful too, much higher level of staying together than other marriages of the time.

How sad... those poor fellows, spending sixty years of their lives in unreal relationships built on all those unreal letters... and think of the imaginary children and grandchildren, too!

I bet next you'll be telling us there's more to love than sex.

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RE: Why online isn't - 6/16/2006 1:44:53 PM

Littlepita

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita
Just today, we had an issue come up that threw us both for a loop in how we see ourselves as D/s couple. My Dom has even decided that he needs to pull back a little until we have the time to renegotiate what exactly we feel our roles are.

*amazing applause and crowing*

You guys are awesome for talking it out, making a solid decision to work it out together and having the guts to share a "less than perfect pie in the sky" moment with us.

You can do it!

Thanks LA! I know we will fix "it" and be stronger when we do. Life isn't perfect, but it sure is interesting.

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