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ORIGINAL: Clothespingirl
How sad...  those poor fellows, spending sixty years of their lives in unreal relationships built on all those unreal letters... and think of the imaginary children and grandchildren, too!

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ORIGINAL: Chaingang

Caitlyn:

Real S&M means not getting caught. That lifer isn't a real Dom.

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ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

I am sorry, but just because this is the 'framework' that YOU use, does not mean that it is the only one.
For many people, online is just as REAL as face to face is. For them, it is NOT a game. 

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ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Jaded,

Of all the statements of mine you posted, only one was pejorative, calling online "bs".  The rest, while you might find them untrue, are not attacks.  Saying that I believe your blue isn't as blue as my blue isn't attacking blue.  If I said your blue sucked, or your blue was ugly, that would be an attack.

So I stand corrected, in one post I did post one minor slam on online relationships, however, the rest were simply observations.

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As for the blow up doll, I didn't use it as an anology, I used it as a question.

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Well I guess day dreams are real too, as one does actually experience them.[8|]

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  This is where it gets amusing, actually. Your post reminds me of the stories of how--fairly well along in the history of aerodynamics--some engineer alledgedly demonstrated that bumblebees can't fly. This guy had measured the critters and done the calculations, you see. Real people with knowledge of real bees, and knowledge of their own oh-so-real relationships--kinky and otherwise--might see a strong analogy between that engineer and you.

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ORIGINAL: Clothespingirl

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ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Well I guess day dreams are real too, as one does actually experience them.[8|]

No, of course daydreams aren't real; they only take place in your head, so they don't exist - just like dreams... speculation... higher math... quantum physics theory... God... memories... true love... and just about anything else that I can't stick in my pussy.

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ORIGINAL: ArdentOne

Good grief!  Well, starting off... this is my first actual post here.  I began reading this thread and got pulled in and have yet to post on the "hi everyone!" thread.  So, hi everyone!

I guess I'm going to be coming at this particular topic from the back end of it.  I am one of those people that have ONLY had online experiences/relationships with BDSM and D/s.  In my real life, the opportunities and possiblities just weren't and aren't present.  In all honesty, I was first exposed to these alternative lifestyles and activities via online friends and aquaintances.  First with vairous chat programs but more profoundly through an online roleplaying game.

So, is the question, "Are online relationships REAL?" what were trying to answer?  Or would it be, "Are RL relationships only... REAL-ER?".

I can only answer from one side here.  Due to my complete absence of RL experiences to draw upon, my viewpoint will only illustrate what constitues reality for me.  In short, the word "impact" comes to mind.  How real something is to another is directly related to the impact it has on that person.  For me, it can be summed up rather simply with these two examples.

On Friday night, I watched a little tv, got ready for bed and rubbed one out while thinking about doing various things to the new girl at the corner store.  With a little time for clean up, I drift off to sleep.

On Saturday night, I log into my favorite game server, you know... the one with all the nifty bdsm haks and clothing... role play an intense, 3-4 hour long scenario which, due to my vivid imagination, actually leaves me with blue balls and I go immediately to bed (fuck it, I'll brush my teeth tomorrow) where I come so hard that I'm going to have to use visine for the next 3 days.

Now... I think it's quite obvious that my online scenario has an impact on me.  And real?  I think it's been asked already on this thread, but what the hell is that?  Have you ever said a word so often that it loses it's meaning?  This word, "real", is coming close to it.

Granted, the stimulation of our highly prized nerve endings is altogether a different creature and skin on skin IS awfully damned nice.  But for me, I'm glad I was inducted into the group of people that looks on these activities favorably, via online interactions.  It has provided me with a safe, disease free venue by which to explore and experiment.  And, by all that is worth swearing on, if I can't get my mind around it, my body sure as hell isn't going to oblige me. 

Don't get me wrong.  I am not saying one is better than the other.  I've never had "real-life" experiences in this particular form or erotic play.  It would be silly of me to even hint at it.  But the truth is, part of the reason is... that I have yet to meet anyone online that I would want to bring into my real life. 

Given the amount of time the internet has been around I think it's well established that there are scummy, deceptive and down right selfish low-lifes out there that will get what they need from you by telling you what you want to hear.  This isn't something thats strictly within the purvue of D/s.  Any one I meet online starts out with my learned suspicions as obstacles to overcome before any connection can be established.  And, well... connecting is what it's about, right?  Real connections can be made with text alone.  Poetry, literature prove all of this.  With text one can craft their message, their mode of connecting in a manner that actually shows MORE of whom they really are at their very core than if they had to speak it aloud.  Whether one misrepresents themself or not, is an issue that is faced in any human interaction.  Online it's just easier to lie.  And, the consequences aren't grave enough to fill the gap where one's conscience should take up the slack.  You don't have to look into the wounded gaze of someone that's been broken by betrayal and you can hit the off switch on your pc if you don't like reading the words that are popping up on your screen.

I've often used this example for online friends and relationships.  Do you remember when you could go to a Baskin Robbins and get one of those little pink spoons and taste test a flavor you've never tried?  Online relationships are like that.  It's only a taste, but it's an intense one.  And no matter how much a pink spoon tells you they hold bubble-gum, with time you'll find out if they're really rocky road.

To the person that started this thread.  (Sorry, I've been writing and editing this so long that I've forgotten your name). It strikes me that you have some valid points and you have a clear and concise way of communicating them.  But your purpose is what I'm more concerned about.  Often people start topics on forums like these to open up and engage a sharing of ideas.  You seem to only have a point you wish to defend.  More telling, you also come across as lacking understanding for those that feel thier online relationships are valid. 

To that I can only respond...

When I lack understanding, it's MY lack and MY failing.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

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This whole question reminds me of that notorious scandal when a certain HPG (Horny Paper Geek) named Robert Browning fancied that he was in love with another poetical poseur, Elizabeth Barrett.  He started writing her letters - just words on paper, he didn't even have a phone or webcam! - and she joined him in the pathetic illusion of real emotion.  She actually ran away from home and married this geek, and tragically, under the delusion that they had established a real relationship... they lived happily ever after.