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Theres nothing quite like watching one that you helped so much and that found what they needed and getting to watch them grow further and to be happy within themselves....there is a definate amount of pride in that. 

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I also know the differences between the different online communication types.... and as another point to it that was 4 and a half years ago and I wasnt a clueless newbie when I came on board. I had 4 and a half years r/t under my belt when I started chatting online.

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ORIGINAL: marieToo

First time I stepped out into wiitwd, I was in over my head....I was torn to shreds and it took me a couple of years to put it back together again.  I had warnings.  But I made bad choices.  And I paid the price.  Like TC said, you have to learn it on your own, by experience;  like any other important relationship lessons, whether "vanilla" or otherwise.   We dont often learn from listening to advice.  However, there are times when someone is sort of too close to a situation to see clearly. ie....the thread from last night where this new girl is getting worked over by some dude who wants a commitment from her, after talking to her for 2 wks online. He wanted to move to be with her etc etc. Im not going to restate the whole situation here, but the girl told a story that had about 20 different people telling her to back out ASAP, because there were so many red flags. Sometimes, you just get too damn caught up and you cant see the forest for the trees, and its good to have other people read your situation and confirm your doubts.  I dont think it can be of any harm to help others along the way.  But I do think ultimately people will do what they want to do, even when they know they're making a poor choice.  Then after they get kicked in the ass, the lesson is learned.  But wtf, if someone can keep one newbie from having a whackjob show up on her porch, why not warn them?  Sorry to say this, but sometimes even smart people make stupid choices, no matter what you tell them.  But on the other hand,  I have also seen *plenty* of people heed and consider some advice given on these boards,  

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ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

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ORIGINAL: iliv2servher

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ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

For the last 4 and a half years I have taken a bit of pride in always helping newbies where I felt I could. Being that this year makes 9 years within WIITWD I have always felt confident in being able to help someone to be able to look within themselves to see what it is they are looking for, to point them in the right directions if there was something I didnt know. Which is a lot I make no claims to know it all about anything, I still learn from just about every person I come into contact with. Thats the way I was always taught and thought it was supposed to work.
 
Since starting here at CM I have seen many people that blatantly oppose helping newbies or that just dont get involved. I wish I could say that I dont understand that, but the more time I have personally invested in trying to help out and watching it get thrown in my face has given me pause to question why I even bother.
 
For those of you that dont help with newbies, is there a specific reason why you stopped? For those of you that do help, why do you continue?

'Ya know...this is one of my pet peeves.  I'm not saying that everyone should try to be a teacher, but it is really to our benefit as a community (and I'll no doubt get slammed for calling this place a "community").  How are we going to grow as a society without sharing our own experiences with new people? 

Back in the hayday of IRC, we used to use our channels as platforms for the exchange of knowledge.   People who were new to the scene often stopped by and were encouraged to ask questions. Of course we were not the highest authority, but then I never suggested that people who were new to the scene simply accept what I or others have to say as fact.  Any intelligent person knows better than to form their opinions on one source and one source alone.  Read everything you can and decide for yourself.

I think that it's a bad choice to cast people out or to simply ignore them because they are new and curious.

---

I think now with so many newbies its hard to see which are actually here and want to learn or which are just here for kink right off the bat.

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Theres nothing quite like watching one that you helped so much and that found what they needed and getting to watch them grow further and to be happy within themselves....there is a definate amount of pride in that.
 
I wish I could say that I help people because of all of the help I have gotten, but thats just simply not the case from when I was new. Granted now there are a few that I can smile greatfully at and say a big thank you because they did take the time to help me with something. ( T/they know who they are )
 
In the long run I know me better than anyone and I'll still help its just the way it is lol.... but ooooo I get frusterated sometimes and its nice to be able to vent

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ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

I have to say, pride I have never found to be an admirable quality.

 

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Theres nothing quite like watching one that you helped so much and that found what they needed and getting to watch them grow further and to be happy within themselves....there is a definate amount of pride in that. 

The more I read and follow this thread - the more it comes down to one thing I observing.  Your control.

You enjoy when people listen.  You enjoy when they are moving forward when they listen to you.  And when they do not, then they fail.  You are enjoying that certain amount of control you have for the briefest moment.

 

There really isnt an increase in new people - it is just easier to communicate these days and there are much more oppotunities.  It is wonderful that people help.  And offer advice.  However, advice is just that.  You cannot and should not expect people to live vicariously through your help.  People still need to make their own moves.  There are NO mistakes.  Only lessons to learn from.

 

Peace and Rapture
 

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That's a great success story and very positive!  

You and me both * pats the sofa cushion next to me *

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ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Reflective,

 

My comment wasnt meant as a negative one.  It is in fact positive.  So there is no need to get defensive, as I have never met you.  No one said that you insisted in anything - you have read that in my words.

 

But your words convey you enjoy the power and control that your words may have over another person.  There is nothing negative in that.  Quite the opposite.  And as you offer advice and words of encouragement to those you list as 'newbies' - maybe it would be wise to heed your own desires.  If someone points something out to you, don't just dismiss it offhand like it is an insult.  Learn from it.  Inhale it and take those words and work on them.

Understanding the power you have, can be a very freeing thing.

 

Peace and Rapture

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ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

I have to say, pride I have never found to be an admirable quality  

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ORIGINAL: KennelDeSade2

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ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

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ORIGINAL: KatyLied

It is difficult .....over and over again .....deaf ears., .....in their best interest, ..........  My frustration .....falls in those areas.

but god forbid someone actually cares..... someones best interests.....
anymore.... ..... thrown back in your face ..... just interfering a..... at the same time they came asking for the help....

My days as the white knight, Lord Savaho, are long past.  But I did learn a few important things.

Most who ask for help, are actually seeking validation, and actual efforts to help will be met with hostility and anger.

Those who are not seeking validation, are most likely looking for somebody to provide them with what they consider a good excuse for failure.  Stand in the way of somebody bent on self destruction, and they WILL take you with them.

The tiny percentage remainder, wants to have a reasonable out from the situation, that they will not take, so they may become a martyr in the little movie in their heads that passes for their lives.

Every now and again, you will find somebody worrth helping.  If you havn't wasted all your energy and resources trying to help the first three groups.
There is a simple test to determine what group somebody asking for help or advice happens to fall into.  Ignore the results of this test at your own hazard, it's proved nearly 100% accurate.

Never lift a finger to help, until the person asking for assistance, has completed at least one small service for you, that involves pushing away from the keyboard and leaving the house.
If they cannot accomplish that, they their desire to be where they are, far outweighs any other consideration.

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ORIGINAL: Kree

Rs
I understand the dilemna about helping others.   I have always tried to offer suggestions or listen to questions, but it becomes tiring when you realize that some of the people asking for help dont really want help, they just want to make noise.  I have watched two threads over the past few days that began in similar fashion, with a question thrown out to the masses for comments.  In one thread, it became apparent rather quickly that the OP did not want answers... they wanted attention.  Anything stated that addressed the issue in a way they had not already decided was met with childish anger.  The second thread asked a very difficult question about a relationship.  People offered advice, tried to help, and listened to several other comments from the second OP.  The second OP spent time listening, instead of firing off constant posts.  The second OP took the opportunity to discuss what was being suggested with the other party, then brought that additional information to the group.  She then listened to the comments made, weighed them and followed the advice being given by the vast majority of the group.

Why do I mention these two threads?  In one case, there was someone that honestly wanted opinions and help.  In the other case, that wasnt true.  In order to continue offering help, people must consider learning to quickly identify the attention seekers and those who arent really serious and hone in on those who have a real desire to learn.  This does two things.  One, it stops one from wasting time on those who will not listen, and two, it raises the level of satisfaction in knowing you chose wisely when deciding who to help.  

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have to say, pride I have never found to be an admirable quality. 

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ORIGINAL: Calandra

to be honest, I didn't connect the OP with the thread I read early this morning until you just posted... Dang. I know how hurtful it is to champion someone who has been lying to you all along.
 
I read the initial OP and a few posts on the front page and a few on this last page before reposting an email I'd sent to another group entirely. If anything I've said in that post seems judgemental or hurtful it wasn't meant to be since I didn't connect...
 
I just know how it feels to mentor and help people and then have them feel ungrateful or over sensitive... or worse, take us for granted....

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ORIGINAL: candleTC

* waltzes in, smile on my face, dragging my dirty little soap box with me *

Ok, i have been given permission to speak my mind.  Master has removed the "leash" and said " go for it, girl" .  i, will however, ATTEMPT to be mindful of my manners, and TRY to be respectful... also, putting on my "flame gear" for any attacks that may come my way.  For those of you who have never seen me on "soapbox" this may be fun.. hang on tight.



Ok, RS' original post came from the heart.  She *is* angry, has every right to be, and was asking an honest question basically on how other's have dealt with this in the past.  Almost every single one of us, know enough of what happened last night to be able to possibly EMPATHIZE with Her situation, if not sympathize.. She was not asking for personal attacks on how she should have been a better teacher or how she could have helped this situation from happening.  She is angry, hurt, jaded, and rightly pissed the hell off.  Not only, did someone come to her for daily advice on how to deal with a situation, this person purposefully, showed a one sided part of a conversation, in order to make said person look better.  This happens.  A LOT.. and Online dynamics don't have squat to do with it.  It happens in real life too.  Happens to people that freely give of themselves EVERYDAY!! i, myself, am still jaded over this happening to me, not so long ago.  Someone who i considered a sister, lied to me for almost a year... it was only when me and the other parties started comparing notes, that it finally dawned on all of us.  I wasn't trying to help her in the "lifestyle", i was doing what friends do, and helping her in her every day quest for a happy life.  It's easy the first time to over look, such actions... but after it happens time and time again.... it's time to weigh the options. 

i, also want to say that, sometimes using your judgement, on either online or IRL, is easier said than done.  People sometimes look very appealing on the outside.. however, when digging deeper into the core of their being, it's ugly and smells really bad... a lot like bullshit.  Sometimes, at that point, it's almost to late to pull your guns back and say... "WHOA!!!!!! waitttttttttt a minute" without, being hurt.  Inevitably, in EVERY relationship we all have, online or irl, we will get hurt.  It's a fact of life, it's how the cookie crumbles and all that jazz. Not every relationship, warrants throwing away, just because you have been hurt, however, it's how we learn and grow from being hurt that make us who we are.  Ya know, what's so great about me?? ( eh, lots of things..) but.. really, i just kinda sit back on the sidelines, watch , learn and dig through all the BS to find the real root of people.  Then, wait for someone to come to me.  Then i can spew all the nonsense i want, without ever having too much invested.  This, is the case at this point.  I have been able to notice, without my blinders on, that many of you talk from both sides of your mouths.  Saying one thing, in one post, then saying the direct opposite.. in FACT, sometimes, it's in the same threads!!!!! this is the smelly stuff that i was refering to just moments ago.  Then.. there is something like this, that is so, two faced, in one post, that gets my head spinning....

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have to say, pride I have never found to be an admirable quality. 

RIGGGGGGGHT!!!! this coming from the "self appointed goddess of the forums" herself.  ( nuff said, point made, case closed on THAT topic )

Anyway, my point is this.... You all talk about this and that, seeing bullshit, blah blah blah ... however, when it comes right down to it.. the ones speaking the loudest on most any topic are the ones that have my bullshit radars going ballistic.  It's sad to see someone come to an open forum asking on how to deal with an issue that has her visibly crushed, only to have to defend her choice of words, her actions and even how she chooses to DEFEND HERSELF! how grand...

RS, i love Ya girl.. and in the past few weeks, i think i can honestly say that we have gotten very close.  Don't let these people bother you, and allow them to hurt you anymore than you already are.  Instead... let me clean off your bullshit radar.. it seems a little dusty...........

i really wish i didn't have to lump a lot of you in the same category of the one that hurt her so badly last night..... but, as always, i calls em as i sees em.......

This has been a public service announcement from the subbie gone wild.......

Beth


*edited for a spelling error*

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ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

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That's a great success story and very positive!  

Thats the way I felt about it too, and hoped that someone else would feel thats why I mentioned it.
 

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Yeah, and a lot of what we seem to be doing here is venting.  I'd like to see us pull together on these issues, but 2,000 years of bickering among people have me feeling very pessamistic.

 
You and me both * pats the sofa cushion next to me *