What is, "poverty?" (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message

TheHeretic -> What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:00:17 PM)

How should we determine what it means to be, "living in poverty?" Is it a measure of an individual's/family's ability to meet their basic needs, or does it simply refer to where people fall along the income scale?

I can tell some nasty personal stories of living in poverty. Others, I'm sure, could tell stories that would curl my hair. To me, it's about the basics. Is there food? Is there a roof? Is there heat under that roof? Is there personal transportation? Access to medical care?

The average American living in poverty hasn't gone hungry a single night in the last year. They have a car, and color television, and air conditioning, live in a structurally sound house or apartment bigger that than the regular, non-poverty stricken, average resident of Great Britain. The leading health problem among those living in poverty in America is obesity.

Poverty gets defined according to the ability to keep up with Joneses, rather than actually living in genuine hardship. Is this how we should be looking at it?



tazzygirl -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:06:35 PM)

quote:

I can tell some nasty personal stories of living in poverty. Others, I'm sure, could tell stories that would curl my hair. To me, it's about the basics. Is there food? Is there a roof? Is there heat under that roof? Is there personal transportation? Access to medical care?


Is there education? Is there child care? Is there the chance to improve oneself?



TheHeretic -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:08:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Is there education? Is there child care? Is there the chance to improve oneself?



Ex-zactly!



tazzygirl -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:10:05 PM)

quote:

They have a car, and color television, and air conditioning, live in a structurally sound house or apartment bigger that than the regular, non-poverty stricken, average resident of Great Britain. The leading health problem among those living in poverty in America is obesity.


Many dont have a car.

Structurally sound house... thats up for debate.

At last count, nearly 45,000 people lived in the 350 Texas colonias classified by the state as at the “highest health risk,” meaning residents of these often-unincorporated subdivisions have no running water, no wastewater treatment, no paved roads or solid waste disposal. Water- and mosquito-borne illnesses are rampant, the result of poor drainage, pooling sewage and water contaminated by leaking septic tanks. Burning garbage, cockroaches, vermin and mold lead to high rates of asthma, rashes and lice infestations.

And the poor diet so intrinsically linked to poverty contributes to dental problems, diabetes and other chronic conditions, which residents of the colonias rarely have the health insurance, money or access to regular health care to treat.

“If I see 50 kids, at least 30 of them are very sick,” said Dr. Sarojini Bose, a pediatrician who operates several clinics in the Rio Grande Valley. “To see this in the United States, the most powerful country is the world, is heartbreaking.”



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/us/10tthealth.html



jlf1961 -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:17:09 PM)

As I understand it, poverty means making the bare minimum income to cover basic needs.

According to the latest statistics,1 in 6 people in the US goes hungry more than one day a week.

Another measurement of the poverty level is the availability of health care, which is harder to gauge. The simple truth is that the poor go to Emergency Rooms and get the minimum of care without paying, thus driving costs up for the rest of us. Many cities in the United States have free health clinics, where, again, the minimum of care is provided.

If you count just income, I live below the poverty line, however I am paying a $765 mortgage payment each month and I have food to eat. I do not have a car, nor do I drive, but that is due to physical limitations.

If you count net worth, I am actually above the poverty line.

So to answer your question, it depends on which criteria you use to decide who is or is not living in poverty.



TheHeretic -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:22:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Many




Average.

(Gee, I hope you don't feel I've altered your meaning by trimming)

And yes, I am into the good bourbon tonight. The California back meds, too.



PeonForHer -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:22:24 PM)

This is the honest truth, TH: Some months ago I, (a Brit, in case you didn't know) had a charity appeal email. I checked it thoroughly because I was so astonished. The charity was asking for support for children in need - in the USA.



tazzygirl -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:23:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Many




Average.

(Gee, I hope you don't feel I've altered your meaning by trimming)

And yes, I am into the good bourbon tonight.


lol... obviously.

But, when it comes to poverty, I hate talking about averages. It gives people a false picture of how bad some people really do have it.



TheHeretic -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:29:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


lol... obviously.

But, when it comes to poverty, I hate talking about averages. It gives people a false picture of how bad some people really do have it.



Do check the edit, and know that I have the Godsmack playing loud.

And ex-zactly again. Is it right to lump the real in with the 20-nothing who has to play x-box in the living room while I'm upgrading to big recliners in front of dual 25 inch tv's and much better audio, into the mix of what poverty is?



tazzygirl -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:37:27 PM)

quote:

Do check the edit, and know that I have the Godsmack playing loud.

And ex-zactly again. Is it right to lump the real in with the 20-nothing who has to play x-box in the living room while I'm upgrading to big recliners in front of dual 25 inch tv's and much better audio, into the mix of what poverty is?


No. To say some have a skewed sense of what poverty truly is would be an understatement.

Poverty is parents getting up from the dinner table so their children could eat.

Poverty is turning the ac off no matter how hot it is outside, just so you know you can afford the power bill at the end of the month and can keep the groceries cold.

Poverty is laying down at night and praying that none of the children, or yourself, become ill because you have just enough money to cover the rent.. and part of the bills.

Poverty is hand washing the kid's clothes, or your own, and praying no one notices and calls social services.

Poverty is dreading school holidays and weekends because the money doesnt stretch far enough to feed everyone.

Poverty comes in many forms. Just not in the xBox one.



Edwynn -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:37:38 PM)


If you know a person who can pay the rent, with air conditioning, and heat, and can obtain a car, and required insurance, and a color television (which, btw, you are welcome to bring to our attention what B&W televisions still exist, or have ever existed in the last 30 years), all on the US single person poverty level of $11,170 per year, which is $930 per month, averaged to $214.81 per week, and still buy their groceries ...

By all means, let us know who this person is.

The media would be all over it.

But here's the news;

A single person living on $11,170 (US poverty level) is actually not that big a deal. It just hasn't worked out for some people, you know? That is not the problem

But ... a household four, two parents, two kids, on the poverty level of $20, 050, per year?

Just how much more absurd can things be?


(Looks back at the OP ... )


Oh.

Nevermind, then.

Carry on.







TheHeretic -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:38:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

This is the honest truth, TH: Some months ago I, (a Brit, in case you didn't know) had a charity appeal email. I checked it thoroughly because I was so astonished. The charity was asking for support for children in need - in the USA.



Peon, I wouldn't suggest for a second that we don't have people living at the desperation point in my country, but I'd check that charity very closely before cutting a cheque.



TheHeretic -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:48:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Poverty is parents getting up from the dinner table so their children could eat.

Poverty is turning the ac off no matter how hot it is outside, just so you know you can afford the power bill at the end of the month and can keep the groceries cold.

Poverty is laying down at night and praying that none of the children, or yourself, become ill because you have just enough money to cover the rent.. and part of the bills.

Poverty is hand washing the kid's clothes, or your own, and praying no one notices and calls social services.

Poverty is dreading school holidays and weekends because the money doesnt stretch far enough to feed everyone.

Poverty comes in many forms. Just not in the xBox one.



Poverty is walking 46 blocks to 2nd grade in the rain, in shoes held together with scotch tape.

Poverty is coming home to find a bag of skinned squirrels on the kitchen counter, and being glad there will be dinner.

Poverty is a 2-lb bag of rice for a week's groceries, and scrounging firewood to boil the water.




tazzygirl -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:49:36 PM)

Did you think I was kidding, Rich?



JeffBC -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:54:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
The average American living in poverty hasn't gone hungry a single night in the last year. They have a car, and color television, and air conditioning, live in a structurally sound house or apartment bigger that than the regular, non-poverty stricken, average resident of Great Britain. The leading health problem among those living in poverty in America is obesity.

Got any supporting evidence for any of that? This reminds me of the myths people tell about the homeless.



tazzygirl -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:55:37 PM)

And here I thought you were asking a serious question. Definitely my bad.



TheHeretic -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:56:31 PM)

You are aware Edwynn, that US poverty calculations don't include the receipt of benefits such as food stamps, or subsidized housing, right?

You might do best to run like hell from this thread, kiddo, because I damn well intend to carry on, at least until the good bourbon seriously kicks in, and you ain't equipped for that.



absolutchocolat -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:57:19 PM)

i like this definition from the World Bank. i think it hits the nail on the head:

Poverty is pronounced deprivation in well-being, and comprises many dimensions. It includes low incomes and the inability to acquire the basic goods and services necessary for survival with dignity. Poverty also encompasses low levels of health and education, poor access to clean water and sanitation, inadequate physical security, lack of voice, and insufficient capacity and opportunity to better one’s life.

*emphasis mine



TheHeretic -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 8:59:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
Got any supporting evidence for any of that? This reminds me of the myths people tell about the homeless.




Let's go with Tazzy's use of "many," in her response, JeffBC. [;)]



Powergamz1 -> RE: What is, "poverty?" (11/30/2012 9:03:11 PM)

That's why useful discourse on poverty usually clarifies whether it is absolute or relative poverty being referenced, instead of treating it as a monolithic concept.
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

How should we determine what it means to be, "living in poverty?" Is it a measure of an individual's/family's ability to meet their basic needs, or does it simply refer to where people fall along the income scale?

I can tell some nasty personal stories of living in poverty. Others, I'm sure, could tell stories that would curl my hair. To me, it's about the basics. Is there food? Is there a roof? Is there heat under that roof? Is there personal transportation? Access to medical care?

The average American living in poverty hasn't gone hungry a single night in the last year. They have a car, and color television, and air conditioning, live in a structurally sound house or apartment bigger that than the regular, non-poverty stricken, average resident of Great Britain. The leading health problem among those living in poverty in America is obesity.

Poverty gets defined according to the ability to keep up with Joneses, rather than actually living in genuine hardship. Is this how we should be looking at it?




Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875