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RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/7/2012 10:29:43 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Doing anything to Social Security would be the end of many political careers.

True, its one of the few political hot buttons that affects everyone in the US.

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Post #: 41

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/7/2012 10:53:50 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Doing anything to Social Security would be the end of many political careers.

I feel sorry for the kids that will be stuck with the bills (& the mess).. Boomer RVs should have bumper stickers saying "I am spending my kids future SS".. cuz that is what is gonna happen.. they will be paying into the boomer's retirements and totally short-changed when their time to retire comes..

just sayin'

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Post #: 42

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/7/2012 10:54:25 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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TJ, the Occupists failed from within. It was a fatally flawed movement from the beginning, that invited its own demise. A coherent movement with a clue could have been far more effective, and the potential for a successful mass movement is still very much alive.

I just don't see it springing into the streets to protest the government using those absolutely bullshit inflation numbers Tazzy Googled up.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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Post #: 43

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 12:01:14 AM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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Occupy Movement and OTHER movements are far from over, in fact there is so much more to come in the future.

Occupy Movement News

I am not here to defend nor argue, so I am not going to engage you in that.

I can wish you, Love, Peace and Soul!

Late Great Don Cornelius--Love Peace and Soul

< Message edited by Marini -- 12/8/2012 12:07:49 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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Post #: 44

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 12:10:02 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

I just don't see it springing into the streets to protest the government using those absolutely bullshit inflation numbers Tazzy Googled up.

rofl

again... you are so funny tonight...

The annual percentage change in a CPI is used as a measure of inflation.

The Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) increased 0.6 percent in August on a seasonally adjusted basis, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Over the last 12 months, the all items index increased 1.7 percent before seasonal adjustment.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/cpi_09142012.pdf

US Inflation Rate:2.16% for Oct 2012

Oct. 31, 2012 2.16%
Sept. 30, 2012 1.99%
Aug. 31, 2012 1.69%
July 31, 2012 1.41%
June 30, 2012 1.66%
May 31, 2012 1.70%
April 30, 2012 2.30%

http://ycharts.com/indicators/us_inflation_rate

The Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) increased 0.1 percent in October on a seasonally adjusted basis, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Over the last 12 months, the all items index increased 2.2 percent before seasonal adjustment.

US Inflation Rate:2.16% for Oct 2012

Oct. 31, 2012 2.16%
Sept. 30, 2012 1.99%
Aug. 31, 2012 1.69%
July 31, 2012 1.41%
June 30, 2012 1.66%
May 31, 2012 1.70%
April 30, 2012 2.30%

http://ycharts.com/indicators/us_inflation_rate

The 12-month change in the index for all items was 2.2 percent in October, an increase from the September figure of 2.0 percent. The 12-month change in the index for all items less food and energy remained at 2.0 percent. The food index rose 1.7 percent over the last 12 months, and the energy index increased 4.0 percent.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cpi.pdf

Hmmm.. yes.. bullshit numbers.... hahahahahaha

Take up the "bullshit" numbers with the BLS.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 45

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 8:17:55 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hmmm.. yes.. bullshit numbers.... hahahahahaha

Take up the "bullshit" numbers with the BLS.

Yeah. I have been. Your personal role in Googling and cut/paste posting those numbers is nothing more than 2nd week intern work.

What? Did you think I was suggesting you had done the math, or devised the formula?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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Post #: 46

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 8:23:33 AM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

I feel sorry for the kids that will be stuck with the bills (& the mess).. Boomer RVs should have bumper stickers saying "I am spending my kids future SS".. cuz that is what is gonna happen.. they will be paying into the boomer's retirements and totally short-changed when their time to retire comes..

just sayin'

I supported my mother and father on Social Security without whining and I'm sure they will as well. This mess as you call it can be rectified and carry on with it's purpose.

The alternative is to go back to the time before SS when hard working mothers and fathers ended up eating dog food to survive because they could not afford to save for retirement and raise a child.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Post #: 47

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 9:19:50 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Doing anything to Social Security would be the end of many political careers.

And so it should. If all the state is for is law and order, the overseeing of contracts, police and the military and to be nothing more than a protector of rich people's wealth, who needs the state?

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Post #: 48

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 9:46:36 AM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

And so it should. If all the state is for is law and order, the overseeing of contracts, police and the military and to be nothing more than a protector of rich people's wealth, who needs the state?

People who like law and order, and contracts overseen, and national security, and the public infrastructure you neglected to mention?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 49

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 9:50:42 AM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

I supported my mother and father on Social Security without whining and I'm sure they will as well. This mess as you call it can be rectified and carry on with it's purpose.

I am not sure about you Butch, but I have been contributing to social security since I was 16, and at THIS TIME, I am not worried about it.

The alternative is to go back to the time before SS when hard working mothers and fathers ended up eating dog food to survive because they could not afford to save for retirement and raise a child.

Butch

The way things are going now, I am not worried regarding any major changes coming to social security in the next 4 years.

< Message edited by Marini -- 12/8/2012 10:27:49 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 50

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 3:59:46 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I feel sorry for the kids that will be stuck with the bills (& the mess).. Boomer RVs should have bumper stickers saying "I am spending my kids future SS".. cuz that is what is gonna happen.. they will be paying into the boomer's retirements and totally short-changed when their time to retire comes..

just sayin'

I supported my mother and father on Social Security without whining and I'm sure they will as well. This mess as you call it can be rectified and carry on with it's purpose.

The alternative is to go back to the time before SS when hard working mothers and fathers ended up eating dog food to survive because they could not afford to save for retirement and raise a child.

Butch

I never said it should go back to the time before SS.. I dont see SS ending (the rules will change tho).. I just dont think that
(a) people should rely solely on expecting it to entirely take care of them (seriously? putting your trust in the govt? scary thought!) and
(b) I dont think its equitable for a much smaller population (kids) supporting a much larger population bulge (boomers)..
It was a lot easier for you to support your parents cuz there were more of you than them (so your costs into SS were low), its not gonna be as easy fer yer kids tho (they will get hit with higher costs to support you).. That is what my point was.. Imo, boomers should have been paying more into SS all along..
And of course, it wouldnt be as bad had the govt not mis-managed the fund (& the country's $/deficit) in the first place..

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Post #: 51

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 4:24:26 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

And so it should. If all the state is for is law and order, the overseeing of contracts, police and the military and to be nothing more than a protector of rich people's wealth, who needs the state?

People who like law and order, and contracts overseen, and national security, and the public infrastructure you neglected to mention?

I actually mentioned them.

Of course there will always be people who think they will join the rich people but the stats say that is very unlikely and they've probably more chance of being murdered. The biggest indicator of which socio-economic strata someone will be in when they die, is the socio-economic strata in which they were born.

Of course, there are still many people who believe in the capitalist santa-claus but they usually just feel better off because society as a whole is better off and now the capitalist bubble has burst in the west, they will feel worse off. The shrinking of the middleclasses is proving that.

Still, most people will tow the line due to fear of alternatives or because they are totally brainwashed

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Post #: 52

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 9:08:40 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

a) people should rely solely on expecting it to entirely take care of them (seriously? putting your trust in the govt? scary thought!) and
(b) I dont think its equitable for a much smaller population (kids) supporting a much larger population bulge (boomers)..

But you don't understand...we baby boomers are spending our OWN money... I will not live long enough to get back what I gave with interest. Now contribute to your own retirement and make sure your government stops reaching into the pot.

I know you mean well and were not talking of ending SS...but remember many...and I mean many… in my generation and even more in yours most likely will not be able to save for retirement and eat.

Change is coming but not because the system is flawed in any way... just that congress over the years time and time again robbed the SS bank all the while assuring the tax payers they would reimburse it with interest… Will they didn’t!.

When the changes are made I do hope they don't take cost of living away from those that need it to rectify their mistakes. I say the way to go is to raise retirement age temporarily until costs are brought under control and be sure there are laws and regulations that prevent congress from taking the reserve again. If they do this SS will be just fine. Imagine if you took the money you give to SS now and invest it wisely over say 50 years... can you imagine the nest egg you would have?... Well I should have that nest egg because I did that in good faith and should expect the return with no bullshit.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 53

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 9:28:14 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

But you don't understand...we baby boomers are spending our OWN money... I will not live long enough to get back what I gave with interest. Now contribute to your own retirement and make sure your government stops reaching into the pot.

I know you mean well and were not talking of ending SS...but remember many...and I mean many… in my generation and even more in yours most likely will not be able to save for retirement and eat.

Change is coming but not because the system is flawed in any way... just that congress over the years time and time again robbed the SS bank all the while assuring the tax payers they would reimburse it with interest… Will they didn’t!.

When the changes are made I do hope they don't take cost of living away from those that need it to rectify their mistakes. I say the way to go is to raise retirement age temporarily until costs are brought under control and be sure there are laws and regulations that prevent congress from taking the reserve again. If they do this SS will be just fine. Imagine if you took the money you give to SS now and invest it wisely over say 50 years... can you imagine the nest egg you would have?... Well I should have that nest egg because I did that in good faith and should expect the return with no bullshit.

Butch

The fact that you even have to TYPE this out and explain this, shows what a sad state of affairs we are living in.
How low can people go?
We put the money IN and contributed all our lives, and to even NEED to explain why we expect to get it back, is sad.

When every OTHER avenue has been depleted, and there is no money left anywhere, than we can look at social security.
By then it won't matter.
Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 12/8/2012 10:08:45 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 54

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 11:30:10 PM

jlf1961

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From: Somewhere Texas
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Actually every time congress used money from the social security trust to make the budget, the used treasury bills to guarantee the "loan."

Treasury bills are actually a pretty good investment, safe and with a guaranteed gain.

The problem with the ones in the Social Security trust is that every time they matured they were replaced with other treasury bills.

Now, the republicans "claim" that a tax deferred retirement investment account will provide all that a person needs in his retirement is false. There are thousands if not millions of Americans that lost their retirement funds when the stock market went nuts.

And there are news stories and op ed pieces that seem to imply some of the upper middle class Americans with considerable money in savings are concerned that it wont see them through retirement.

IF the social security trust had been left alone, there would be no problems.

Of course, there are conflicting reports on the condition of the trust. Some say it will remain solvent until 2035, and then there are some on the right that claim that the trust is empty now. The problem is that the data that both sides provide looks correct.

Personally, to insure my financial security for the remainder of my life, I am trying to discover Hugh Hefner's secret to a productive sex life at his age, allegedly without viagra. I figure if i can commercialize it, I will be independently wealthy.

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Post #: 55

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/8/2012 11:39:54 PM

tazzygirl

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~FR

A single man or woman who turned 65 in 2010 and earned the 2011 average U.S. wage of $43,500 will pay $58,000 in Medicare taxes and $294,000 in Social Security taxes, making for a total of $352,000, according to a 2011 report by the Urban Institute.

But the average Social Security and Medicare benefits that single man will recieve will come to about $432,000. And the single woman will get benefits worth about $475,000 out of the system.

This isn't a new development either. The same Urban Institute report shows that the average wage-earning man who turned 65 in 1980 would pay about $104,000 into the two entitlement programs, but get benefits worth $265,000. A single woman in 1980 would pay in the same amount and get benefits worth $330,000. Single earner couples fare even better. In 1980, they'd pay in the same $104,000 — and get an average of $512,000 in benefits. Today that single earner couple would pay $352,000 into the system and get $798,000 out.

http://reason.com/blog/2012/09/21/obama-tells-seniors-theyve-earned-medica

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/social-security-medicare-benefits-over-lifetime.pdf

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 12/8/2012 11:40:19 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 56

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/9/2012 1:44:27 AM

tj444

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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
But you don't understand...we baby boomers are spending our OWN money... I will not live long enough to get back what I gave with interest. Now contribute to your own retirement and make sure your government stops reaching into the pot.

If you are indeed 65 as your profile states, then tazzy's post indicates you will get back more out over your retirement than you put in..

I dont believe in SS for me, its not something I count on.. & Canada's SS system is in better shape than the US system (from reports I have read on the subject).. and I dont think the Canadian govt has.. ummm.. mis-managed the fund, like the US govt has its SS fund.. really, what the US govt has done is a disgrace..

Canadians get more out of their SS than the US govt gives you.. according to this US SS report.. I think its cuz Canadians have paid more into it all along.. Looking at elderly poverty rates, US rates (24.7%) are much higher than Canada's (7.8%).. so even with your SS, some of you will unfortunately be eating cat food.. especially since 45.5% of elderly women living alone in the US are living in poverty..

Although Canada's system would probably be judged prohibitively expensive for the United States, the authors argue that there are nevertheless lessons to be learned from the Canadian experience.
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v68n2/v68n2p53.html

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Post #: 57

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/9/2012 5:06:11 PM

kdsub

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quote:

If you are indeed 65 as your profile states, then tazzy's post indicates you will get back more out over your retirement than you put in

I wonder what the compounded interest rate over 50 years would be?. Ya think $77000? I do. Remember my generation paid for the generation that did not contribute all their working lives that is how it started in the whole. You will not have to pay for them they are gone... we paved the way and carried the largest burden.

I'm beginning to think Republicans have the right Idea. Let your contributions be in a individual account where neither you or the government can touch it. Imagine the difference in an average 10 percent per year over the lifetime of the index compared to treasury bonds return... when they paid them.

I don't feel the ineptness in management should be solved on the backs of those least able to bare it.

Those already on SS should have to abide by the rules and promises of their government… Then do what they most to change as needed. But leave by benefits alone!!

How would you like a 50 year promise broken by your government who stole your money for dumb assed wars they refused to raise taxes to pay for.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 58

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/9/2012 6:31:14 PM

tj444

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Joined: 3/7/2010
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Depends what the interest rate is.. and the inflation rate (the real rate, not the mutilated govt version).. You know, when I was younger, the banks used to tell people to put $ into a retirement plan every year at X% interest and **You will be a Millionaire when you retire**

Except its a big fat lie.. your million bucks wont be worth much cuz inflation has been eating away at the money & the interest rate they pay on it..

Hey, I understand how you feel, I would feel the same way.. Americans have been conned by the govt they elected.. and yes, better that the money be in an untouchable account.. I dont see that happening tho..

And now someone has to make up for what the govt did..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 59

RE: Social Security is an entitlement? - 12/12/2012 10:16:04 AM

graceadieu

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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

An entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits based on established rights or by legislation.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement

Umm. . . yeah, Social Security is an entitlement.

Fox News & co have indoctrinated a lot of people into thinking that "entitlement" is just another word for "welfare", and something that can be cut. But really, an entitlement is something we're legally entitled to. Like Social Security.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 60

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