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RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 1:41:34 AM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

I am a vet, seen combat and have killed men.

The intended use of the my weapon was just that to kill.

I own guns today, the intended use, to hunt, and make anyone breaking into my home none to happy. That does not mean that I intend to shoot someone breaking into my home, most burglars are unarmed, the perp is going to be unhappy that he is going to have to wait at my home for the police to show up.

The burglar has more to fear from my six dogs.

Canines
Intended use: companionship, keep my feet warm on cold nights, alert me when cars pull up, and to prewash my 10 month old great nephews face.
Secondary use, scare the living shit out of anyone entering my home without permission

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 41

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 2:54:29 AM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Intended function of the device comes into play here, like it or not.

Oddly enough, none of the firearms owned by me, my family, friends or anyone in the various clubs I've belonged to over the years has managed to kill anyone. I guess we've all just been using them for something other than their intended function.

Inanimate objects are not responsible for the behavior of the people who use them.

Guns and motor vehicles are designed for different purpose.

Your family chose guns for one purpose, the vehicles for another purpose.

Let that sink in.

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 42

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 3:06:17 AM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

Someone made the claim that cars were more 'efficient' in killing than were guns. I was only responding to that idiocy.

The number of deaths from vehicle accidents is greater than the number of both accidental and intentional deaths from guns. But if we measure in terms of deaths per miles driven vs. deaths per shots fired, I think the greater efficiency would go towards guns. Given the distinctly different design intention of either item, one would certainly hope so.

Otherwise, by the logic of that poster, there would be no need for a car owner to have guns.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/15/2012 4:01:22 AM >

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 43

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 3:26:53 AM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Modern video games, plain and simple.

Do you have any evidence to support this assertion?

None but anecdotal evidence from this corner. The only family member who ever attacked me physically was also the only family member who indulged in violence-based video games on a regular basis.

quote:

It's been my experience that video games, modern or not, are a convenient scapegoat in general, but nothing more in all but a few cases where they may have had a contributory role in causing a preexisting problem to become manifest.

Bingo.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 44

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 3:31:43 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oh come on.... you can surely give me more details than that.

You implied 22 two children were killed in a knofe attack, yet the article you linked said 20 children were killed in similar knife attacks and the 22 were injured. You either can't read or relay information. one r the other.

She said that the knife was efficient enough to kill 22 kids. She didn't say they all died in the last incident. Maybe you could use a few reading lessons also.

No she didn't, the 22 kids was in the incident where 22 kids were injured, the other stat was 20 kids a year was killed. I think you need comprehension lessons.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 45

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 3:32:44 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

None but anecdotal evidence from this corner. The only family member who ever attacked me physically was also the only family member who indulged in violence-based video games on a regular basis.

Our anecdotes disagree, as anecdotes often do.

quote:

Bingo.

So, in other words, no reason to go after video games.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 46

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 3:38:03 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It only goes to show that if they want to kill, they will find a way... guns... bombs... knives....

Such sadness.

Guns and bombs are far more efficient than knives at killing people. The sensible thing is to make killing people as inefficient as possible, which is to stop people getting hold of guns and bombs.

Or we could try to find out why are kids are growing up to think that this is the answer to their problems.

I suspect your motive for that is to stop gun restriction, rather than actually find out what motives mass murder. In a society which has a mass industry which glamourizes death and one that promotes violence as a way of stopping violence and ha wall to wall subliminal images promoting violence, I don't think one has to look that far for reasons why people might think violence is the answer to their problems.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 47

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 3:40:01 AM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
So, in other words, no reason to go after video games.

Just the violence-based video games, sorry if I left out that detail.

In any case, I cannot ban them, nor would my proposing to do so have any impact on the matter whatsoever. Too many hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue from the venture for that to happen.

I am just commenting on the observed result.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/15/2012 3:46:15 AM >

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 48

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 4:22:35 AM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

Is there some biblical text that says something like "Violence begets violence"??

According to this recent study, it does state that violent video games do contribute significantly to violent behaviour.
"In summary, although they are not the only factor that increases aggression, violent video games do have a significant effect on aggression."

Link: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-psyched/201201/do-violent-video-games-increase-aggression
Published on January 27, 2012 by Brad J. Bushman, Ph.D.

Also backed up by http://www.pamf.org/preteen/parents/videogames.html By Andrea Norcia, college student writer.

And again by http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/children_and_video_games_playing_with_violence
Copyright © 2012 by the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry.

So it would appear that various studies of violent video games could be responsible for a number of young people going off the rails and doing something quite horrific - as we have seen very recently.
Add that to the prolific availability of guns to the general populace... and there you have a cause, a motive, an explanation, a trigger and the means with which to do such things.

I know that article 2 is fiercely defended by the NRA and those that won't give up guns.
But also, there are those that advocate that article 2 should be abolished altogether for safety reasons.
The subject is highly emotive and both sides are vociferous in their arguments.

But I live in a country where guns are not commonplace - for which I am thankful.

If we take the most recent tragedy, if Adam Lanz's mother didn't have the guns in her car for him to use (which she legally purchased), could he have wreaked so much death and havoc?
What aboout Columbine in 1999?? Could those kids have caused so much death if the guns weren't so readily available?
Then there are countless murders or serious injury caused by shootings in US streets and malls.

Supporters of article 2 have already voiced their opinion that the teachers should be armed to protect the kids at school.
A good point.
But the anti-gun lobby says if the guns weren't so easily available, Adam probably wouldn't have the guns to be able to shoot them in the first place.
The whole pro/anti argument seems very reminiscent of the cold war in the height of the arms race.
Surely, it's better in the long run, to drastically reduce the number of weapons available to Joe Public?

President Obama himself said in his speech last night that far too many of these incidents have happened in recent years.
Whether he will do anything is something to be seen but he will have a huge battle with the NRA and its supporters.

Just my

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 49

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 4:22:38 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It only goes to show that if they want to kill, they will find a way... guns... bombs... knives....

Such sadness.

Guns and bombs are far more efficient than knives at killing people. The sensible thing is to make killing people as inefficient as possible, which is to stop people getting hold of guns and bombs.

Or we could try to find out why are kids are growing up to think that this is the answer to their problems.

I suspect your motive for that is to stop gun restriction, rather than actually find out what motives mass murder. In a society which has a mass industry which glamourizes death and one that promotes violence as a way of stopping violence and ha wall to wall subliminal images promoting violence, I don't think one has to look that far for reasons why people might think violence is the answer to their problems.

Show me a post where I ever suggested we should stop gun restriction or quit lying.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 50

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 5:00:04 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Just the violence-based video games, sorry if I left out that detail.

It didn't make any difference to me.

quote:

I am just commenting on the observed result.

The observed result is a reduction in deaths.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 51

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 6:08:32 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Show me a post where I ever suggested we should stop gun restriction or quit lying.

He seems to have a bad habit of insisting he knows people based upon a few posts, or just one. When asked to back his shit up, he runs off like a naughty boy with his hand in the cookie jar.

So, dont hold your breath for his response. He aint got squat to back his shit up.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 52

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 6:34:32 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Show me a post where I ever suggested we should stop gun restriction or quit lying.

He seems to have a bad habit of insisting he knows people based upon a few posts, or just one. When asked to back his shit up, he runs off like a naughty boy with his hand in the cookie jar.

So, dont hold your breath for his response. He aint got squat to back his shit up.

I know no one but I can read and I can evaluate the implication of people's statements, its called comprehension.

I quote thishereboi to my suggestion of gun control Or we could try to find out why are kids are growing up to think that this is the answer to their problems.

to which I answered I suspect your motive for that is to stop gun restriction, rather than actually find out what motives mass murder. In a society which has a mass industry which glamourizes death and one that promotes violence as a way of stopping violence and ha wall to wall subliminal images promoting violence, I don't think one has to look that far for reasons why people might think violence is the answer to their problems.

So I didn't say I could read his mind, I said I suspect which means I acknowledge he didn't say he was against gun control but I have my suspicions because and I requote In a society which has a mass industry which glamourizes death and one that promotes violence as a way of stopping violence and ha wall to wall subliminal images promoting violence, I don't think one has to look that far for reasons why people might think violence is the answer to their problems.

So the pair of you can't read.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 53

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 6:42:18 AM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Just the violence-based video games, sorry if I left out that detail.

It didn't make any difference to me.

quote:

I am just commenting on the observed result.

The observed result is a reduction in deaths.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

Like this observed result, you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

By your estimation, the poor lad did not play enough violence-based video games to prevent such a tragedy.

Thanks for that info.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 54

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 6:44:16 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Show me a post where I ever suggested we should stop gun restriction or quit lying.

He seems to have a bad habit of insisting he knows people based upon a few posts, or just one. When asked to back his shit up, he runs off like a naughty boy with his hand in the cookie jar.

So, dont hold your breath for his response. He aint got squat to back his shit up.

I know no one but I can read and I can evaluate the implication of people's statements, its called comprehension.

I quote thishereboi to my suggestion of gun control Or we could try to find out why are kids are growing up to think that this is the answer to their problems.

to which I answered I suspect your motive for that is to stop gun restriction, rather than actually find out what motives mass murder. In a society which has a mass industry which glamourizes death and one that promotes violence as a way of stopping violence and ha wall to wall subliminal images promoting violence, I don't think one has to look that far for reasons why people might think violence is the answer to their problems.

So I didn't say I could read his mind, I said I suspect which means I acknowledge he didn't say he was against gun control but I have my suspicions because and I requote In a society which has a mass industry which glamourizes death and one that promotes violence as a way of stopping violence and ha wall to wall subliminal images promoting violence, I don't think one has to look that far for reasons why people might think violence is the answer to their problems.

So the pair of you can't read.

chuckles

keep trying

oh, btw, boi isnt a male

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 12/15/2012 6:46:08 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 55

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 6:47:44 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Show me a post where I ever suggested we should stop gun restriction or quit lying.

He seems to have a bad habit of insisting he knows people based upon a few posts, or just one. When asked to back his shit up, he runs off like a naughty boy with his hand in the cookie jar.

So, dont hold your breath for his response. He aint got squat to back his shit up.

I know no one but I can read and I can evaluate the implication of people's statements, its called comprehension.

I quote thishereboi to my suggestion of gun control Or we could try to find out why are kids are growing up to think that this is the answer to their problems.

to which I answered I suspect your motive for that is to stop gun restriction, rather than actually find out what motives mass murder. In a society which has a mass industry which glamourizes death and one that promotes violence as a way of stopping violence and ha wall to wall subliminal images promoting violence, I don't think one has to look that far for reasons why people might think violence is the answer to their problems.

So I didn't say I could read his mind, I said I suspect which means I acknowledge he didn't say he was against gun control but I have my suspicions because and I requote In a society which has a mass industry which glamourizes death and one that promotes violence as a way of stopping violence and ha wall to wall subliminal images promoting violence, I don't think one has to look that far for reasons why people might think violence is the answer to their problems.

So the pair of you can't read.

chuckles

keep trying

oh, btw, boi isnt a male

I don't care what she is, she still can't read.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 56

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 6:52:02 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

I dont care who you think cant read. You cant back your shit up.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 57

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 6:58:51 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont care who you think cant read. You cant back your shit up.

I did back it up and if you think I didn't tough, it is you who needs comprehension lessons, not me.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 58

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 7:04:56 AM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

Here's what backs up the assertion that we live in a culture that promotes further violence as the answer to any violence:

Rambo

Death Wish

Dirty Harry

Chuck Norris movies.

A few hundred others.

Hack script writing, where somebody's daughter is fictionally violently tortured, then raped, then tortured some more, then killed, ... etc., so that the most heinous violence as retribution to this wholly absurd and fictional 'crime' is justified.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/15/2012 7:09:45 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 59

RE: From the other side of the world - 12/15/2012 7:06:06 AM

thezeppo

Posts: 441
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Just the violence-based video games, sorry if I left out that detail.

It didn't make any difference to me.

quote:

I am just commenting on the observed result.

The observed result is a reduction in deaths.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

Like this observed result, you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

By your estimation, the poor lad did not play enough violence-based video games to prevent such a tragedy.

Thanks for that info.

Edwynn

Surely your defence of the car, that it's intended function is something other than a tool for murder, should apply to violent video games as well. After all, the vast majority of people who buy Call of Duty don't then go and commit a gun crime.

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 60

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