RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is

RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/25/2013 7:10:19 PM)
Seriously, ElChupa, I do think you do any given right wing cause more damage than any lefty ever could.

Kirata -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/25/2013 7:48:56 PM)
The shortcoming of projection as an ego defense is, it only conceals the source of the material from the person doing the projecting. To everyone else, it's perfectly obvious. K.

TAFKAA -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 2:08:59 AM)
Indeed. And this is why it's so crystal clear with anyone who possesses a shred of insight. Enter any gun control debate and watch the rabid ego-driven responses from gun owners for whom possession of a gun has become an intrinsic part of their identity. It's this rabid defense which remains completely insensible to logic and reason and which dispenses with all semblance of compassion that makes clear the real, underlying cause of their response. The gun fanatic builds firearm possession into his identity because it makes him feel powerful. Watch in any discussion as gun owners consistently boast of the murder they'll commit if someone breaks into their home. It is stunningly, absolutely consistent in both tone and content. First the justification, then the message that they'll murder another human being with their gun. They echo the same message that American movies and television have echoed for decades. "I can murder someone with a gun if he done me wrong - I'm the good guy, so killing with a gun is just fine." Take away their guns and they are bereft. They don't have their power anymore and so they're nothing. Thus you have gun owners making statements like "They'll take my guns from my cold, dead hands". Of course they'll say that. Because gun owners would rather die than lose their identity. And given that they prefer death to a life without firearm possession, they sure as shit don't give a flying fuck about the death of anyone else. Including innocent children. 10 children, 100 children, a thousand children, ten thousand children. No price is too high for them to keep their sense of self. It's only those who can break the cycle of addiction to the thrill of power which a gun gives - or those who were never addicted in the first place - who understand the necessity for gun control. The rest are too hopelessly locked into the denial of the addict. And are prepared to see their society burn to ashes rather than giving up their guns.

Kirata -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 4:42:14 AM)
I suspect it wasn't necessary to go to the trouble of providing another illustration of my point, but you've done an excellent job and I thank you for the kindness. K.

Yachtie -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 5:06:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TAFKAA Because gun owners would rather die than lose their identity. And rabbits revel in their identity as rabbits, their rabbitness proclaimed as righteous. Anything else is deemed psychopathy. How could anyone not want the glory that is rabbitness?

jlf1961 -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 5:09:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: TAFKAA Because gun owners would rather die than lose their identity. And rabbits revel in their identity as rabbits, their rabbitness proclaimed as righteous. Anything else is deemed psychopathy. How could anyone not want the glory that is rabbitness? I dont think that a gun owner's identity is linked to the ownership of guns. But whatever, it seems that you are trying to be a closet shrink, and clearly do not understand why most people who own guns do so.

Yachtie -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 5:13:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: TAFKAA Because gun owners would rather die than lose their identity. And rabbits revel in their identity as rabbits, their rabbitness proclaimed as righteous. Anything else is deemed psychopathy. How could anyone not want the glory that is rabbitness? I dont think that a gun owner's identity is linked to the ownership of guns. But whatever, it seems that you are trying to be a closet shrink, and clearly do not understand why most people who own guns do so. I do not disagree, but evidently he does as he stated such.

Baroana -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 8:45:00 AM)
Fast reply, sorry if someone already covered this. I would feel better about the harboring of guns in America if the existing gun laws gave the ATF any teeth. http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/editorials/article/ATF-left-toothless-on-enforcing-gun-laws-4166237.php http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-16-2013/there-goes-the-boom---atf

jlf1961 -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 10:04:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Baroana Fast reply, sorry if someone already covered this. I would feel better about the harboring of guns in America if the existing gun laws gave the ATF any teeth. http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/editorials/article/ATF-left-toothless-on-enforcing-gun-laws-4166237.php http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-16-2013/there-goes-the-boom---atf Actually, as far as I know, the point has not been covered. My biggest problem is that there is no way, at this point, to force a mental health specialist to report a person with possible violent tendencies to keep that person from buying a gun.

TAFKAA -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 3:13:11 PM)
Dude, don't use psychological terms such as 'projection' when you clearly have no idea what they mean. And I note your inability to summon a counter-argument. No doubt because this strikes far too close to the bone.

TAFKAA -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 3:14:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I dont think that a gun owner's identity is linked to the ownership of guns. But whatever, it seems that you are trying to be a closet shrink, and clearly do not understand why most people who own guns do so. No, I think I understand why they do far better than you do. It requires you to look beneath the surface and ask yourself this simple question: "Why?"

Yachtie -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 3:30:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TAFKAA quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I dont think that a gun owner's identity is linked to the ownership of guns. But whatever, it seems that you are trying to be a closet shrink, and clearly do not understand why most people who own guns do so. No, I think I understand why they do far better than you do. It requires you to look beneath the surface and ask yourself this simple question: "Why?" Ah, because we are not rabbits? [8\|]

PeonForHer -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 3:31:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TAFKAA Dude, don't use psychological terms such as 'projection' when you clearly have no idea what they mean. And I note your inability to summon a counter-argument. No doubt because this strikes far too close to the bone. For what it's worth, your bit of psycho-reasoning there chimed for me, TAFKAA. However, this is probably because I'm not American and don't own any guns, and am therefore probably a bit unhinged, just like you.

jlf1961 -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 3:54:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TAFKAA quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I dont think that a gun owner's identity is linked to the ownership of guns. But whatever, it seems that you are trying to be a closet shrink, and clearly do not understand why most people who own guns do so. No, I think I understand why they do far better than you do. It requires you to look beneath the surface and ask yourself this simple question: "Why?" It is really quite simple, I like to hunt and target shoot among other things. Add to that, due to the rattlesnakes around here in the summer and my grandson coming out on weekends, I do like an effective means to kill something that could kill my grandson.

Kirata -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 4:22:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer For what it's worth, your bit of psycho-reasoning there chimed for me, TAFKAA. However, this is probably because I'm not American and don't own any guns, and am therefore probably a bit unhinged, just like you. Did you want to comment on how banning guns reduced homicides in "civilized" Britain? http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4359615 K.

Kirata -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 4:25:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TAFKAA Dude, don't use psychological terms such as 'projection' when you clearly have no idea what they mean. I know exactly what it means, and don't fucking call me "Dude". quote: ORIGINAL: TAFKAA I note your inability to summon a counter-argument. The problem is your inability to recognize one. K.

PeonForHer -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 4:38:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Did you want to comment on how banning guns reduced homicides in "civilized" Britain? Not really, Kirata. We're so primitive here in Britain that we don't have either enough guns nor enough homicides for me to want to argue about the matter.

PeonForHer -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 4:47:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 It is really quite simple, I like to hunt and target shoot among other things. So, to get this straight, JLF: TAFKAA was being slanderous to suggest that you're so primitive that you have guns in order to feel powerful. The real reason you have guns is for the much more advanced reason that you like to kill animals?

Kirata -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 4:52:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Did you want to comment on how banning guns reduced homicides in "civilized" Britain? Not really, Kirata. We're so primitive here in Britain that we don't have either enough guns nor enough homicides for me to want to argue about the matter. Well you sure fooled me. I must have misunderstood just about every post you've made on the topic. Here's some more fun reading for you to ignore. The United States is often seen from abroad as a relatively lawless society, with murders and gun-related crimes aplenty. But a recent series of Gallup surveys in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States suggests that the image may be somewhat distorted... Britons appear to have the least confidence in their police, while Canadians have the most. Britons are also the most likely to say that they live near an area where they would be afraid to walk alone at night. ~Gallup The chief inspector of constabulary says some police are failing to class all acts of violence as crimes... Mr O'Connor said: "It's a very high error rate on a small sample. For us as the regulator, it's a matter of concern..." based on the HMIC's own figures, a repeat of the flaw across all forces could mean that police in England and Wales annually failing to record up to 6,000 acts of violence resulting in injury... Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: "All of this just further undermines confidence in the crime figures and in the criminal justice system." ~BBC K.

jlf1961 -> RE: The conversation we ought to have, instead of guns is (1/26/2013 5:02:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 It is really quite simple, I like to hunt and target shoot among other things. So, to get this straight, JLF: TAFKAA was being slanderous to suggest that you're so primitive that you have guns in order to feel powerful. The real reason you have guns is for the much more advanced reason that you like to kill animals? Well, let's see, I have had rotor cuff surgery so I cannot hunt with a bow anymore. I actually prefer venison to beef, so I do get my limit each season, and as far as rattlesnakes, tell you what, I will stop shooting them if you come over and beat em to death with a rock.

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