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ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I think most would agree that all though mass murderers have always been with us, our society is breeding spree and serial killers, and we need a better understanding of why that is.

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The thing is, rehabilitation does not work for criminals because they have never been habilitated.

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That said, even in a Utopian society, a certain percentage of people would choose to be criminal.

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At this point, I don't see humans as being able to alter this type of criminals' psychological makeup in the least.

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My recommendation remains the same, study those they allow it, then kill them.

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I have very strong objections to allowing them to breed.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

A great deal of planning by the perpetrator goes into these events, which suggests that snapping is not an issue.

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The spree killers as opposed to the serial killers seem to be self-destructive.

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Which raises the issue of why they feel the need to share their suicide.

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But European nations, looking back through the Thirty Years War and all that followed, and looking ahead to possible disunion, have not acquitted themselves so humanely either.

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Hopefully, your experiments with social democracy will prove more beneficial than our stuttering efforts.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Breivik did not go into a school. He attacked the youth camp of a political party which he held responsible for the Muslim immigration, as I understand it.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The condition is known as a psychotic break.

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Usually brought on by some extremely traumatic event in a person's life.

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A person suffering from this will strike out at those people or institutions that to them, represent the reason of the loss or they are so overwhelmed they want others to feel as much emotional pain or more than they are feeling.

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In essence they are truly suffering a period of temporary insanity. The difference in this type of individual, they rarely snap back to reality or sanity without long term, intensive therapy in an institution.

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

He planned it. He was wearing a bulletproof jacket. He didn't just snap and then said, "Oh wait, I should grab my bulletproof jacket".

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ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt


Although I agree with Kana that these types of killers should be 'put down' I strongly believe that should be done only after a period of study. Because the biggest issue with these types of murderers is understanding why they do what they do.

Without that understanding, we can't catch them, and we sure as hell can't stop them.

I think most would agree that all though mass murderers have always been with us, our society is breeding spree and serial killers, and we need a better understanding of why that is.

It's not just a breakdown of our mental health system, though that is a component. Its not just an issue of gun control, although that does tend to factor in with spree killers.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML


This is a spinoff from the mental health thread regarding mass killers. Adam Lanza is dead, but suppose he were not, as James Holmes, the Aurora theatre killer is not. I am presuming Lanza was severely mentally depressed, as indications suggest Holmes was.

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ORIGINAL: PowerXXXchange

In terms of cause, we know that serial or mass killers have one major factor in common - they are almost entirely males.

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Don't most mass killers kill themselves or are eventually killed as they appear to expect and want? In that regard, isn't debate on punishment pretty academic?

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Don't most mass killers kill themselves or are eventually killed as they appear to expect and want? In that regard, isn't debate on punishment pretty academic?

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Though I would question whether mass killers are mentally depressed or are suffering any mental illness that we aren't all suffering from ie. the human condition. The knowledge that life is ultimately futile and pointless and we all die regardless of what we do in life. We will all suffer the same fate ie. ultimately we are nothing, our lives will be extiguished and nothing, zilch, the universe has ceased to be because we have ceased to be.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Excellent discourse, CP.
Do you think spree killers should be punished as harshly as serial killers?

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There is no answer to the nature-nurture question, as the question presupposes a dichotomy; the more that we study serial or mass killers, or the easier subject of the various behaviors that make up Autism Spectrum Disorder, the more the balance between biological and social/family/experience influences is revealed. And while the new tools of MRI brain scanning, DNA scanning and genetics, and sensitive biochemistry will give us clues to the biological factors, the effects of parenting and social relationships will likely remain relatively unquantified and elusive. Environmental factors lack similar quantitative tools and for obvious ethical reasons must depend on case studies, statistical analysis and animal experimentation.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML


Yes, mostly. There is the exception: the Aurora batman killer James Holmes is caught and awaiting trial. Breivik is in jail in Norway.Serial killers OTH are not suicidal. I raise two issues: 1. is it moral for a society to kill killers? 2. Can we learn from them to develop preventative strategies?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Not everyone shares your seemingly extreme nihilism. Many, perhaps including you, believe we can construct our own meaningfulness for the short time we are here. Andrea Yates and James Holmes displayed and were diagnosed with serious mental illness/depression.

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ORIGINAL: PowerXXXchange


There is so much we don't know... what is it that we know pretty much for sure?

In terms of cause, we know that serial or mass killers have one major factor in common - they are almost entirely males. This is a story that will not be fully explained biologically without involving that simple molecule, testosterone, and its relation to brain development, especially the development of centers related to empathy.

I responded to this in an earlier post; there have been plenty of female serial killers.

There is no answer to the nature-nurture question, as the question presupposes a dichotomy; the more that we study serial or mass killers, or the easier subject of the various behaviors that make up Autism Spectrum Disorder, the more the balance between biological and social/family/experience influences is revealed. And while the new tools of MRI brain scanning, DNA scanning and genetics, and sensitive biochemistry will give us clues to the biological factors, the effects of parenting and social relationships will likely remain relatively unquantified and elusive. Environmental factors lack similar quantitative tools and for obvious ethical reasons must depend on case studies, statistical analysis and animal experimentation.


What is being learned about DNA this very minute is that the gestalt of who we are genetically is hugely complicated. Your DNA might be coded for a particular personality trait that will only be triggered if there is an environmental issue along with a nurture issue. Scientists are in the very baby stages of learning about this fascinating discovery. (Mine from an earlier post. We *ARE* learning the answers to nature, nurture, and environment, though admittedly much work needs to be done in this area. )


They are all males, lacking empathy as a mental defect and we do not know why. Professor Simon Baron Cohen says it better than I...

here

So we have as a society about 1 in 100 beautiful male babies who will develop some level of ASD, and who show signs of it at birth.

Yet, as an older relative of two young boys, both with enough ASD behaviours to keep them from attending the preschool of their parents’ choice, as well a long time close friend with an Asperger’s child living on the streets, I am personally amazed at the power of environmental factors to moderate their dysfunctional behaviors forbetter or worse.


Then I suspect you have never been a parent. Being a parent teaches you that lack of good nurturing and extreme abuse creates major dysfunction in the emerging personality. And, if you are paying attention, it also teaches you that your children are born who they are, and though environment and great parenting can shape them to a certain extent, people appear to be born with various personality traits.

The problem I see is that our wildly ahistorical culture is often toxic to children. Farm families of the last century had utilitarian places for moody and introverted children. Both parents were typically present and extended family was also there to relieve or augment poor parenting. There was a vocational future: animals needed tending and didn't require a finely tuned empathy (check out the relationship between ASD and pet ownership) Life was much more solitary.

How long will it take to sort out causes? And how long thereafter for that knowledge to be politically digested and the values of freedom weighed against a more wholesome culture?

I am sad that over the near future this will not be the last mass killing that we will see, or the largest. It is the fourth that Obama has flown to in his first term, so a rough estimate is one a year of national magnitude... ugh.

In the meantime, maybe it's time to play a video game and bake Christmas cookies with an introverted child. That's one other thing we know to do, it helps, and it’s fun too.

I'd been very careful of allowing a young child to play violent video games or watch violent TV or movies. Studies have shown this shapes the developing brain, and NOT in a good way.



PxC