RE: All things gun control go here

RE: All things gun control go here (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

JeffBC -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:14:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 How does staying armed stop the govt in any way, shape or form??? they have much more manpower & weapons.. sheesh, they invade other countries.. what chance does an American or group of Americans stand? You know I used to think that. But then I really stopped to ponder the problem. And sure as hell I'm not military general but it seems pretty likely to me that if Iw as tasked with suppressing my own citizenry I would MUCH prefer that they were unarmed. Asymmetric warfare is real and it's effective -- especially when civilian casualties are an issue. So sure, if the US military could be convinced to deploy it's full strength against US citizens then we are all screwed. But there wouldn't be much of a US left afterwards to rule over.

blacksword404 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:15:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 There is only so much bloodshed people are willing to endure. Horseshit. If you endured a recount being stopped illegally and an unelected President being sworn in and spending two terms accusing anybody who complained about his behaviour of treason, then you'll endure any indignity at all. Indignity and bloodshed are not the same. Look them up.

Moonhead -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:18:45 AM)
People can get quite indignant about their blood being shed, you'll find.

Politesub53 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:21:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 The same kind you have when the government puts dogs on you, beats you with batons. Sprays you with high power water hoses. There is only so much bloodshed people are willing to endure. And there is only so much that most people are willing to dish out. When you stand in a pool of your own countrymen's blood you will have had your fill. The bolded part is quite correct. Which is why the populace will see more gun control as a good thing eventually.

tj444 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:29:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 How does staying armed stop the govt in any way, shape or form??? they have much more manpower & weapons.. sheesh, they invade other countries.. what chance does an American or group of Americans stand? You know I used to think that. But then I really stopped to ponder the problem. And sure as hell I'm not military general but it seems pretty likely to me that if Iw as tasked with suppressing my own citizenry I would MUCH prefer that they were unarmed. Asymmetric warfare is real and it's effective -- especially when civilian casualties are an issue. So sure, if the US military could be convinced to deploy it's full strength against US citizens then we are all screwed. But there wouldn't be much of a US left afterwards to rule over. well,.. I disagree.. if you are dead then you are no longer a threat to the govt.. you can be much more of a threat if you are alive (even unarmed).. is that not how Nelson Mandella affected eventual change in his country? to do what he did, he needed to survive and be living..

tj444 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:36:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 The same kind you have when the government puts dogs on you, beats you with batons. Sprays you with high power water hoses. There is only so much bloodshed people are willing to endure. And there is only so much that most people are willing to dish out. When you stand in a pool of your own countrymen's blood you will have had your fill. people will endure a lot, imo, and yes even pools of blood.. the nazis proved that, it was not just the Jews that were persecuted, it was anyone that did the slightest thing against the Nazis oir their rules, children were given medals from the SS for turning in their parents.. just listening to allied radio programs would have gotten you killed..

Moonhead -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:40:01 AM)
First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me. [sm=banana.gif]

blacksword404 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 12:17:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 The same kind you have when the government puts dogs on you, beats you with batons. Sprays you with high power water hoses. There is only so much bloodshed people are willing to endure. And there is only so much that most people are willing to dish out. When you stand in a pool of your own countrymen's blood you will have had your fill. people will endure a lot, imo, and yes even pools of blood.. the nazis proved that, it was not just the Jews that were persecuted, it was anyone that did the slightest thing against the Nazis oir their rules, children were given medals from the SS for turning in their parents.. just listening to allied radio programs would have gotten you killed.. And think about it, why should countries have acted to stop them, save those vicious acts? Countries taking over other countries is nothing new.

tj444 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 12:34:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 And think about it, why should countries have acted to stop them, save those vicious acts? Countries taking over other countries is nothing new. no, invading is nothing new, but imo it depends on the motivation for invading or going to war.. in the case of WWII, yes going in & fighting was right & of course other countries like the US were attacked first (which is why the US became involved), in the case of Bush jr's invasion of Iraq (& other previous interference such as the Shay of Iran), no.. jmo..

Powergamz1 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 7:48:36 PM)
First, note that per capita gun ownership around the world ranges from the US extreme of 89% all the way down to less than 1% with plenty of places allowing individual possession. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country Also note that more than half of US households own no guns at all. http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx And finally, note that the range of violent deaths doesn't follow the gun curve very well, even controlling for war zones. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate In analysis of data, this leads to the obvious conclusion that something is skewing the numbers... with the possibility that the extreme number of US shootings has to so with something more than simply geography. I would suggest that rather than basing conclusions on the premise that every single non-American in the world thinks that gun ownership is weird, it would be useful to take a look at more complex factors and interactions...

BamaD -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 8:22:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: during the week after Newton there were three copy cats all killed by armed citizens the case is made I cant seem to find any links to those. Care to provide them? oregon mall shooting for one surley you can find that and a theater in b'ham AL there was another in a rural church my son saw it not me (he is 22) I took your word for Philly schools locking up janitor closets The Mall shooter killed himself after killing 2 others. Birmingham the police shot the killer after he shot another officer and two employees. The church I have no clue about. These two werent stopped by "armed citizens" unless you want to count the shooter and the police as "armed citizens". thats what I get for listening to other people Mall shooter committed suicide after meeting armed resistance from armed citizen, as these shooters consistentlly do that the armed citizen may or may not have influenced this. your rendetion of the theator shooting is at odds with the coverage here soyou may well be describing a different incident As for a church shooting the only one I personally have seen an article on in the last year was in Colo, Auroa I think were the shooter killed two in the parking lot and was stopped in the foyer by a armed parishiner

tazzygirl -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 9:01:00 PM)
Yet you indicated those incidents happened after Conn. quote: armed resistance from armed citizen, as these shooters consistentlly do that the armed citizen may or may not have influenced this. According to his report.... quote: The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar. "He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side." The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter. "As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said. Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision. "I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself." http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html It can only be assumed that the gunman saw him. He was behind a pillar. Then the citizen went and hid.. I dont blame him for that action. But the citizen didnt stop him, the jammed gun did.

BamaD -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 9:48:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Yet you indicated those incidents happened after Conn. quote: armed resistance from armed citizen, as these shooters consistentlly do that the armed citizen may or may not have influenced this. According to his report.... quote: The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar. "He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side." The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter. "As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said. Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision. "I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself." http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html It can only be assumed that the gunman saw him. He was behind a pillar. Then the citizen went and hid.. I dont blame him for that action. But the citizen didnt stop him, the jammed gun did. two did the fact remains that these guys routinly commit suicide when faced with someone who can shoot back but maybe his rifle jamming was the reason he shot himself also they with the exception of the gifford shooting only attack places where they assume there willbe no armed resistance like gun free zones. The Aurora shooter for example drove past two larger theaters to get to the only one in the area which bared guns from the property. If armed citizens are nodeterrent why do they always strike gun free zones?

Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 10:46:18 PM)
considering that now the US has survialance drone flying over are heads, does any think guns will stop a predator drone with missles?

blacksword404 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 10:52:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro considering that now the US has survialance drone flying over are heads, does any think guns will stop a predator drone with missles? Missiles? For police duties? They do something like that and they better find a bunker to retire to. They might find it hard to get a good nights sleep.

Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:06:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: during the week after Newton there were three copy cats all killed by armed citizens the case is made I cant seem to find any links to those. Care to provide them? oregon mall shooting for one surley you can find that and a theater in b'ham AL there was another in a rural church my son saw it not me (he is 22) I took your word for Philly schools locking up janitor closets The Mall shooter killed himself after killing 2 others. Birmingham the police shot the killer after he shot another officer and two employees. The church I have no clue about. These two werent stopped by "armed citizens" unless you want to count the shooter and the police as "armed citizens". thats what I get for listening to other people Mall shooter committed suicide after meeting armed resistance from armed citizen, as these shooters consistentlly do that the armed citizen may or may not have influenced this. your rendetion of the theator shooting is at odds with the coverage here soyou may well be describing a different incident As for a church shooting the only one I personally have seen an article on in the last year was in Colo, Auroa I think were the shooter killed two in the parking lot and was stopped in the foyer by a armed parishiner Best evidence now known about Holmes actions show the reason he picked that Theater was due it showing a midnight Batman movie. Again guns had nothing to do with Holmes choice.

Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:30:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida He served 17 years for killing his grandmother with a hammer. Our system is flawed. Gun control laws aren't going to solve the problem. Dealing with criminals, gang bangers and the mentally ill more appropriately will do more to prevent these acts than new laws will. I believe more laws will simply create a bigger black market for firearms, but won't stop the problem. They will only create more laws to break. It seems to me keeping those who murder behind bars would be an easier fix than what ever it is we need to do concerning mental health. At least if they are behind bars they can't kill again. There killings in our prisons some with guns as well. Further studies show violence of the mentally ill is no more greater than any other group.

Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:32:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro considering that now the US has survialance drone flying over are heads, does any think guns will stop a predator drone with missles? Missiles? For police duties? They do something like that and they better find a bunker to retire to. They might find it hard to get a good nights sleep. Obama has given approval for survialance drones to fly over the US, it is only a question of time when the predator drones fly.

Nosathro -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:38:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida Or maybe we can help the mentally ill BEFORE they kill. Or maybe they'll at least settle for killing their therapist. [:)] K. Your comment does not surprise me. It is interesting to note the Holmes therapist attempted to warn officials about him, however the warning fell on def ears. (You may know check my spelling[&:])

jlf1961 -> RE: All things gun control go here (12/27/2012 11:38:58 PM)
Actually, congress had to pass the bill, and Obama signed it.

Page: << < prev 24 25 [26] 27 28 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625