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RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 4:53:45 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Point #2 isn't relating to what you would do with the photo - at least that's not how I see it.

The way I interpret point #2 is even if you took a photo of that artwork, the artwork itself is commercial, not that you would be using the photo in a commercial way.
So no, you couldn't post that pic of the commercial artwork even though you personally took the photo of it.

And to me, all those pics that have a website name on them somwhere means that those images are copyright to the website and shouldn't be used without permission.

You cant interpret one narrowly without interpreting them all narrowly.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 721

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 4:59:52 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
How fast can you glance at a photo and click a button??
I'm not talking about close scrutiny, just an initial quick glance.
A second or two??
I can skip through pics and press a button at the rate of several a second.
But I'm not advocating someone be doing that all the time - that'll give you a headache.
But even at just 1 photo every 5 seconds (easily achievable by anyone without any rush), that would mean an initial 'pass' or 'fail' of over 700 photo an hour.
Are you saying that they flooded in at a much faster rate than that??
I don't honestly believe for one minute it was - or even close.

But seriously tazzy, are you saying they were being uploaded at such a rate that nobody could keep up with it??
That suggestst to me that whoever was given the task was not doing their job properly.

I believe you have a misconception here. There is no way it would ever just be a view, click, done proposal. More like view, disallow the pic, send the letter to say why the pic wasn't approved, and if the pic reviewing Mod were lucky, it would end there. More likely, the member who tried to post the pic would start debating about why it should be allowed.

Don't believe Me? Look at this thread.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 722

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:08:56 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

This is kind of what I meant. Not that anyone was particularly doing anything wrong. But in the past I know that I, myself, have gotten upset seeing threads knocked out or posts removed because two or three people were having a heated debate. I enjoyed it, and then the thread was gone or the posts were gone. I used to get upset because I had thought they should have stayed.

I used to get upset. Now, I just try not to make any substantial posts.

This is a policy others (plural) have indicated they pursue, as well, for the same reason.

Here's my take on it:

Why do we have moderation of threads beyond strict legalities? Because enjoyment is impaired when the conversation is lost in a major shouting match, and people get hostile across threads with each other when there's a bunch of personal attacks flying around the place all the time.

How do the current policies fit these goals? They don't. When thread enjoyment is reduced, even for a few posters, the whole thing gets nuked from orbit. The response varies between amputating an infected limb and euthanizing the patient, when the response could be to try antibiotics first. A simple "Behave, children!" from XI was usually sufficient. When not, people got put on moderation, which amounts to vaccination in the previous analogy, ensuring the cost was paid by the source(s) of the problem(s), rather than everyone else.

In that environment, I don't want to be the one carefully debriding tissue when Jason and Leatherface descend on the limb with machete and chainsaw, respectively. Hell, I don't want to be near anything they might decide to lop off, cuz that just ain't gonna end well. When a thread starts to get interesting, it's like the orchestra starts humming ominously in the background and the foley guys start working the engines and the faux metal on scabbard things in the distance... you know what's coming. All because of a few posts.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

Edited for bolding.

< Message edited by Aswad -- 1/7/2013 5:09:49 PM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Kaliko)

Post #: 723

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:13:10 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

My 'home' page when I log into CM lists 'New Users' as opposed to anything else.

I cannot honestly recall, in my short 8-9 months (in total) of being on CM, more than a couple of hundred profiles being created in one day.
That sort of level is easy to keep up with even if they create a profile with pics right from the get-go.

From what I see, the profile gets created first, posted, pics are then added later.
You can see that if you regularly refresh the page every few minutes (yes, I get very bored at times! lol).
A new profile pops up, maybe a few minutes later it has a new pic - if they post one.
Every once in a while, a profile disappears.

I could do that job standing on my head in-between all the other internet stuff I do all day every day.
It wouldn't be any more inconvenient than popping out to the kitchen to grab a coffee.

Fab is a fairly popular site over here where every single pic has to be approved and the whole site is maintained and run by just two people. So it's certainly possible.
Alt/Passion/AFF et all, is also quite a large site and very popular. Again, every pic has to be approved.
I don't see that CM is any different and I don't think it's that hard to have a manual fast pic approval to go with it. I just see that as a poor and laxidasical excuse.

I think what urks me more than anything, apart from being deleted (that's a bummer for sure) but the fact that those I reported are still remaining. So it's definitely a 'shoot the messenger' rather than fix the problem (however slowly) attitude that gets my goat. And I think I'm justified in complaining about it too.
Oh, and incidentally, my second profile didn't get deleted until I asked to make a formal complaint against the mod that deleted the first profile... or are you going to say that was an unfortunate coincidence that it happened 30 mins after my Cmail??

I'm not asking for anyone to agree with me. it's just my

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 724

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:16:49 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
How fast can you glance at a photo and click a button??
I'm not talking about close scrutiny, just an initial quick glance.
A second or two??
I can skip through pics and press a button at the rate of several a second.
But I'm not advocating someone be doing that all the time - that'll give you a headache.
But even at just 1 photo every 5 seconds (easily achievable by anyone without any rush), that would mean an initial 'pass' or 'fail' of over 700 photo an hour.
Are you saying that they flooded in at a much faster rate than that??
I don't honestly believe for one minute it was - or even close.

But seriously tazzy, are you saying they were being uploaded at such a rate that nobody could keep up with it??
That suggestst to me that whoever was given the task was not doing their job properly.

I believe you have a misconception here. There is no way it would ever just be a view, click, done proposal. More like view, disallow the pic, send the letter to say why the pic wasn't approved, and if the pic reviewing Mod were lucky, it would end there. More likely, the member who tried to post the pic would start debating about why it should be allowed.

Don't believe Me? Look at this thread.

HTML and scripts can be written (just like those you see on Alt/AFF etc) where the click of the button sends an auto-generated mail to say that it was not approved. It isn't so hard to do.

And in those cases, there isn't any appeal.
It's not approved and that's that. Case closed.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 725

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:19:08 PM

Powergamz1

Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline

One person's 'whim', is other people's 'logical extension'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

3 words that I put in my proposal negate that. "on a whim"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

That would be great.... If no new circumstances ever arose.

There isn't a set of rules in existence that people won't find a way to twist, spin, end run, loophole, or otherwise play games with either the wording or intent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have no problem with his position. I do have a problem with some of his assumptions and how he is going about trying to effect change.

Okay, just a quick bit of feedback from the sidelines: I'm not sure you're getting that point across very well, and I'm not sure you're getting that point over to me as a disinterested party on the sidelines in the exchange. Same for him. That's why I suggested the above rephrasing of what I see as the core of his position, which seems like a starting point it should be easy to work from for either one of you. It's incidentally also one that, down the line, converges with most other issues that have been raised on this thread and the other threads on the same/similar topic(s).

Just trying to help.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

My point is simple

We have written rules.
Enforce them exactly as written.
Don't make up new rules on a whim.

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 726

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:20:33 PM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
How fast can you glance at a photo and click a button??
I'm not talking about close scrutiny, just an initial quick glance.
A second or two??
I can skip through pics and press a button at the rate of several a second.
But I'm not advocating someone be doing that all the time - that'll give you a headache.
But even at just 1 photo every 5 seconds (easily achievable by anyone without any rush), that would mean an initial 'pass' or 'fail' of over 700 photo an hour.
Are you saying that they flooded in at a much faster rate than that??
I don't honestly believe for one minute it was - or even close.

But seriously tazzy, are you saying they were being uploaded at such a rate that nobody could keep up with it??
That suggestst to me that whoever was given the task was not doing their job properly.

I believe you have a misconception here. There is no way it would ever just be a view, click, done proposal. More like view, disallow the pic, send the letter to say why the pic wasn't approved, and if the pic reviewing Mod were lucky, it would end there. More likely, the member who tried to post the pic would start debating about why it should be allowed.

Don't believe Me? Look at this thread.

If the person reviewing them was going very quickly what if they inadvertently let an illegal one slip through with a child or something else on it? It would be posted and "approved" by the site. The site is then saying it's ok to have it up, they could be held liable for the illegal content lurking about in some back corner of someone's profile. This place could conceivably be shut down and prosecuted. From the site's standpoint, I'd think it would be much better to have people report the illegal pictures and have the process removed from their administration with a buffer zone.

It would be almost impossible on a site of this size to keep it completely clean of law violations, better for the owners to not be personally responsible for the vetting of pictures.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 727

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:21:03 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
How long does it take to look at a picture and decide that it wasn't taken by the uploader?? Instantly... Maybe half a second... Lets be generous, I'll give it a whole second.

Oh joy. Everyone loves the amateur Dick Tracy's of the world. So for those of us who are semi-serious or pro photographers we can expect endless reports simply because the quality is too good?

I've been accused of stealing my avatar photo -- although usually by folks who have stolen it from me.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 728

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:23:16 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Point #2 isn't relating to what you would do with the photo - at least that's not how I see it.

The way I interpret point #2 is even if you took a photo of that artwork, the artwork itself is commercial, not that you would be using the photo in a commercial way.
So no, you couldn't post that pic of the commercial artwork even though you personally took the photo of it.

And to me, all those pics that have a website name on them somwhere means that those images are copyright to the website and shouldn't be used without permission.

You cant interpret one narrowly without interpreting them all narrowly.

I don't see that as a narrow PoV at all.
What ends up on the profile is a pic of commercial art.
No more, no less.
It doesn't matter if you personally took the photo or if you stole it from another website, the result is the same - a pic of commercial art.
And that is what you aren't supposed to do when you upload pics onto CM profiles.
CM isn't unique in that rule - it's quite common across many websites.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 729

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:23:38 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
How long does it take to look at a picture and decide that it wasn't taken by the uploader?? Instantly... Maybe half a second... Lets be generous, I'll give it a whole second.

Oh joy. Everyone loves the amateur Dick Tracy's of the world. So for those of us who are semi-serious or pro photographers we can expect endless reports simply because the quality is too good?

I've been accused of stealing my avatar photo -- although usually by folks who have stolen it from me.

Jeff, I think what he's talking about reporting is stuff like LOLcats, snarky willy wonkas and the reprints from facebook. There's really enough of that on the other side to keep a man busy.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 730

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:24:42 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

My 'home' page when I log into CM lists 'New Users' as opposed to anything else.

Go to.... browse photos from your home page.... there are pages upon pages of photos.

Depending on the placement of many of those photos, they may be against TOS or they may not. Its not just a quick... oh, that one has gaping holes, disallowed... because gaping holes are only disallowed on the primary photo.

I realize you believe this should be a simple process. Its not as simple as you believe.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 731

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:27:12 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
How long does it take to look at a picture and decide that it wasn't taken by the uploader?? Instantly... Maybe half a second... Lets be generous, I'll give it a whole second.

Oh joy. Everyone loves the amateur Dick Tracy's of the world. So for those of us who are semi-serious or pro photographers we can expect endless reports simply because the quality is too good?

I've been accused of stealing my avatar photo -- although usually by folks who have stolen it from me.

I think you missed the boat somewhere Jeff. lol.

I wasn't on about good photography at all.
I actually like good photography!
Another groan - I hate seeing blurry/grainy pics that aren't worth the effort.

It isn't photography, it's the blatant non-photography. lol.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 732

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:30:26 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

I don't see that as a narrow PoV at all.
What ends up on the profile is a pic of commercial art.
No more, no less.
It doesn't matter if you personally took the photo or if you stole it from another website, the result is the same - a pic of commercial art.
And that is what you aren't supposed to do when you upload pics onto CM profiles.
CM isn't unique in that rule - it's quite common across many websites.

I didnt say a narrow point of view. Not all of Warhol's work is commercial art. Now we have to prove, per your words, that it is or isnt commercial artwork.

I think in the case of photos its better to be a bit lenient on some things so the site can concentrate on the massive no no's.... like kids and animals.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 733

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:31:54 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
How long does it take to look at a picture and decide that it wasn't taken by the uploader?? Instantly... Maybe half a second... Lets be generous, I'll give it a whole second.

Oh joy. Everyone loves the amateur Dick Tracy's of the world. So for those of us who are semi-serious or pro photographers we can expect endless reports simply because the quality is too good?

I've been accused of stealing my avatar photo -- although usually by folks who have stolen it from me.

I think you missed the boat somewhere Jeff. lol.

I wasn't on about good photography at all.
I actually like good photography!
Another groan - I hate seeing blurry/grainy pics that aren't worth the effort.

It isn't photography, it's the blatant non-photography. lol.

lol.. so now you want the admins to be art critics as well?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 734

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:31:56 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi
If the person reviewing them was going very quickly what if they inadvertently let an illegal one slip through with a child or something else on it? It would be posted and "approved" by the site. The site is then saying it's ok to have it up, they could be held liable for the illegal content lurking about in some back corner of someone's profile. This place could conceivably be shut down and prosecuted. From the site's standpoint, I'd think it would be much better to have people report the illegal pictures and have the process removed from their administration with a buffer zone.

It would be almost impossible on a site of this size to keep it completely clean of law violations, better for the owners to not be personally responsible for the vetting of pictures.

Yes lizzy - and that is where the reporting feature would pic it up - just like it is at the moment.
You can upload any number of illegal pics on here and they'll stay there until someone reports it.
Nobody vets the initial uploading of the pics, so it could be anything.

What I'm saying is, you can catch the vast majory of them at the initial glance and it's easy to do.
Anything else, you deal with as it comes along, just like it is now.

(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 735

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:47:44 PM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
lol.. so now you want the admins to be art critics as well?

They don't have to be art critics.
If they see a pic of a person in a photo, even if it's not the profile person they can let it go until someone reports it - just like they do now.
If it isn't, and its an obvious pic not of the person, it initially gets kicked out unless the person appeals the decision.

As far as I'm concerned, unless you happen to have a personal piece of Warhol's art that he personally painted just for you, all of his works are commercial, up for public viewing, and certainly should not be used as a photo on a profile.

Maybe we are confusing what you call 'commercial' and what I interpret the word commercial to be?
To me, anything on public display, anywhere, makes it commercial.
Why?
Because it is being used to draw in money from other external sources even if not from the sale of the art itself.

Either way, I see that sort of thing to be inappropriate and wrong to be used on a profile.
And if that were a blanket application of a rule, it would save a lot of confusion as to what is legitimately 'commercial' and what isn't.

The same sort of rule for 'explicit' primary photos - which aren't allowed.
What you might call explicit, I might call tame and quite natural.
In the end, the mod gets to decide by his/her own measure of what they consider explicit.
And to me, that is very open to subjective opinion and abuse rather than a proper hard-and-fast rule.

As I said, it's just my

Edit to add Webster's definition -
(1) : occupied with or engaged in commerce or work intended for commerce *a commercial artist*
(2) : of or relating to commerce *commercial regulations*
(3) : characteristic of commerce *commercial weights*
(4) : suitable, adequate, or prepared for commerce *found oil in commercial quantities* b (1) : being of an average or inferior quality *commercial oxalic acid* *show-quality versus commercial cattle* (2) : producing artistic work of low standards for quick market success
2 a : viewed with regard to profit *a commercial success* b : designed for a large market
3 : emphasizing skills and subjects useful in business *a commercial school*
4 : supported by advertisers *commercial TV*

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 1/7/2013 5:59:08 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 736

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:51:09 PM

NocturnalStalker

Posts: 3858
Joined: 12/4/2010
Status: offline

It's okay darlings, I'm here.

_____________________________

"The road I walk is paved in gold to glorify my platinum soul."

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)

Post #: 737

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:52:50 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I swear to God that somebody on Fet must have written a post about this thread.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to NocturnalStalker)

Post #: 738

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 5:53:36 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

The biggest problem I have with the site is that there is no way to order female subs or slaves....

So much for ease of shopping....

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You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to NocturnalStalker)

Post #: 739

RE: The decline of collarme - 1/7/2013 6:04:20 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

It's okay darlings, I'm here.

Wow... back again huh?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NocturnalStalker)

Post #: 740

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