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Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 9:08:03 AM

vincentML

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University of Connecticut Genetics Department has been asked to study Lanza's genes for markers of mental disease or violent behavior. Some geneticists have ethical objections. Some wonder at the efficacy of such a study. Is this a proper scientific and medical function? Or is it a toe into the doorway of some Orwellian future that will pose a challenge to individual liberty? Opinions?

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< Message edited by vincentML -- 12/27/2012 9:10:30 AM >

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RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 11:04:01 AM

Moonhead

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Bullshit.
Both the assumption that a genome search will find anything (maybe in another fifty years that'd sound a bit less risible), and that this is some Orwellian thang that's setting a precedent for anybody with the wrong genes to be rounded up and disposed of.

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RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 11:29:27 AM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

University of Connecticut Genetics Department has been asked to study Lanza's genes for markers of mental disease or violent behavior. Some geneticists have ethical objections. Some wonder at the efficacy of such a study. Is this a proper scientific and medical function? Or is it a toe into the doorway of some Orwellian future that will pose a challenge to individual liberty? Opinions?

Source

Didn't they make a movie about this. Something where they could tell if you had the capability to break the law and if so, they would off you?

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(in reply to vincentML)

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RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 11:41:17 AM

Moonhead

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They did, but it has Tom Cruise in it, so it's a given that there's no scientific basis to support the premise.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 4

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 11:49:28 AM

jlf1961

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The movie in question "Minority Report" did not use DNA to determine if the person was going to commit a crime.

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RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 11:51:58 AM

Moonhead

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It was so bad I've blotted out most of my memory of it, to be honest. It was a time probe macguffin rather than DNA, then?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 6

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 11:54:04 AM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It was so bad I've blotted out most of my memory of it, to be honest. It was a time probe macguffin rather than DNA, then?

I cant remember either, but I know it was not DNA.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 7

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 11:55:23 AM

Moonhead

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Why do they keep doing this shit to Phillip K Dick? Are they overcompensating for Blade Runner being a nifty SF thriller, or something?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 8

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 11:57:02 AM

jlf1961

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On the topic, you might want to look here.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 9

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 12:05:01 PM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The movie in question "Minority Report" did not use DNA to determine if the person was going to commit a crime.

You're probably thinking more gattaca than minority report.

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RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 12:08:27 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Bullshit.
Both the assumption that a genome search will find anything (maybe in another fifty years that'd sound a bit less risible), and that this is some Orwellian thang that's setting a precedent for anybody with the wrong genes to be rounded up and disposed of.

And it will likely take a very long time to land a man on the moon, use flying robots in warfare, and hold computers in the palms of our hands.

ETA: oh yeh, and neither will anyone ever map the human genome.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 12/27/2012 12:11:37 PM >

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 11

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 12:10:14 PM

Hillwilliam

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Back to the topic.
I see people decrying the loss of liberty that might occur if genetic screening for mental illness became available.
I see the same people decrying the fact that people who have mental illness can't get help.

You can't help these people unless you can identify them.

A tool isn't evil in and of itself. It's the user of the tool that is good, evil or neutral.

I'm in favor of anything that can be used to identify those who need help. The flip side is, once they are identified, fucking HELP them.

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Post #: 12

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 12:14:38 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Back to the topic.
I see people decrying the loss of liberty that might occur if genetic screening for mental illness became available.
I see the same people decrying the fact that people who have mental illness can't get help.

You can't help these people unless you can identify them.

A tool isn't evil in and of itself. It's the user of the tool that is good, evil or neutral.

I'm in favor of anything that can be used to identify those who need help. The flip side is, once they are identified, fucking HELP them.

Good points, Hill. I wonder if anyone can invision a day when the DNA of all newborn children is analyzed and recorded just as foot prints are now taken.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 13

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 12:21:16 PM

tj444

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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

University of Connecticut Genetics Department has been asked to study Lanza's genes

I question anyone's right or the govt's right to seize his body or genes to study in the first place, unless they were actually given permission to do so by his family (which the article does not state)...

its like there are people with genes or whatever that are resistant to various viruses (I think one person had HIV but was not sick or developed AIDs?), but anyway, the drug cos basically stole that and tried to profit from it by using that info on their dna or genes or whatever to produce drugs.. Without legally given permission, it is theft, imo..

Here is an article on that.. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/may/30/health.aids Scientists from Oxford University 'stole the blood' of African orphans and brought it back to Britain to carry out 'unlawful' research into Aids.

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Post #: 14

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 12:21:23 PM

Hillwilliam

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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Back to the topic.
I see people decrying the loss of liberty that might occur if genetic screening for mental illness became available.
I see the same people decrying the fact that people who have mental illness can't get help.

You can't help these people unless you can identify them.

A tool isn't evil in and of itself. It's the user of the tool that is good, evil or neutral.

I'm in favor of anything that can be used to identify those who need help. The flip side is, once they are identified, fucking HELP them.

Good points, Hill. I wonder if anyone can invision a day when the DNA of all newborn children is analyzed and recorded just as foot prints are now taken.

I predict fewer than 5 years before it becomes available to wealthy clients.
Genetic therapies are already being used.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 15

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 12:21:37 PM

blacksword404

Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Back to the topic.
I see people decrying the loss of liberty that might occur if genetic screening for mental illness became available.
I see the same people decrying the fact that people who have mental illness can't get help.

You can't help these people unless you can identify them.

A tool isn't evil in and of itself. It's the user of the tool that is good, evil or neutral.

I'm in favor of anything that can be used to identify those who need help. The flip side is, once they are identified, fucking HELP them.

Good points, Hill. I wonder if anyone can invision a day when the DNA of all newborn children is analyzed and recorded just as foot prints are now taken.

It always starts out with good intentions. But the temptation is there. " why not use it for this and that as well. It's a tool not being used to its full potential."

_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 16

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 12:30:33 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

University of Connecticut Genetics Department has been asked to study Lanza's genes

I question anyone's right or the govt's right to seize his body or genes to study in the first place, unless they were actually given permission to do so by his family (which the article does not state)...

its like there are people with genes or whatever that are resistant to various viruses (I think one person had HIV but was not sick or developed AIDs?), but anyway, the drug cos basically stole that and tried to profit from it by using that info on their dna or genes or whatever to produce drugs.. Without legally given permission, it is theft, imo..

Here is an article on that.. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/may/30/health.aids Scientists from Oxford University 'stole the blood' of African orphans and brought it back to Britain to carry out 'unlawful' research into Aids.

The medical examiner is the one who gave permission.
An autopsy was ordered which is normal in such cases. When that happens, the ME is given custody of the body. Any and all tests that he or she deems necessary can then be performed. The family can try to prevent it and in some cases a stop can be put to it if they can show compelling evidence (religious for example) that the testing should be discontinued.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 17

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 12:40:10 PM

tj444

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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
The medical examiner is the one who gave permission.
An autopsy was ordered which is normal in such cases. When that happens, the ME is given custody of the body. Any and all tests that he or she deems necessary can then be performed. The family can try to prevent it and in some cases a stop can be put to it if they can show compelling evidence (religious for example) that the testing should be discontinued.

I personally feel the medical examiner has overstepped his bounds.. imo the family should be able to decide yes or no, not the ME.. so I disagree on moral grounds to his decision to do so.. If I was one of the family I would challenge it.. It is just like the article I posted the link to, there is no way to know how those genes will be used.. and frequently when Universities study such things, the results are sold to Big Pharma to profit from.. which I also disagree with..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 18

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 12:42:13 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
The medical examiner is the one who gave permission.
An autopsy was ordered which is normal in such cases. When that happens, the ME is given custody of the body. Any and all tests that he or she deems necessary can then be performed. The family can try to prevent it and in some cases a stop can be put to it if they can show compelling evidence (religious for example) that the testing should be discontinued.

I personally feel the medical examiner has overstepped his bounds.. imo the family should be able to decide yes or no, not the ME.. so I disagree on moral grounds to his decision to do so.. If I was one of the family I would challenge it.. It is just like the article I posted the link to, there is no way to know how those genes will be used.. and frequently when Universities study such things, the results are sold to Big Pharma to profit from.. which I also disagree with..

I can definitely agree with your points. I was simply pointing out where permission and the chain of custody came from.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 19

RE: Sorting Adam Lanza's Genome For Clues - 12/27/2012 12:49:50 PM

tj444

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Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
The medical examiner is the one who gave permission.
An autopsy was ordered which is normal in such cases. When that happens, the ME is given custody of the body. Any and all tests that he or she deems necessary can then be performed. The family can try to prevent it and in some cases a stop can be put to it if they can show compelling evidence (religious for example) that the testing should be discontinued.

I personally feel the medical examiner has overstepped his bounds.. imo the family should be able to decide yes or no, not the ME.. so I disagree on moral grounds to his decision to do so.. If I was one of the family I would challenge it.. It is just like the article I posted the link to, there is no way to know how those genes will be used.. and frequently when Universities study such things, the results are sold to Big Pharma to profit from.. which I also disagree with..

I can definitely agree with your points. I was simply pointing out where permission and the chain of custody came from.

I understand what you are saying, I just dont agree with the decision.. Lanza's death was the result of being shot (at his own hand), that is quite evident and imo the end of the ME's job description (to determine the cause of death).. not to go any further unless he did get the family's permission to study his genes or brain, etc.. if the ME's rights extend that far, to send genes or the brains of any deceased, then any serial killers genes and brains (that are executed or die in prison), etc are subject to seizure for study.. and then anyone that dies of whatever diseases cant be treated in the same way after death.. I feel that is wrong and immoral.. and the start of a slippery slope..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 20

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