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RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 8:45:04 PM   
RemoteUser


Posts: 2854
Joined: 5/10/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxogirl

So again I think we should look at our relationships and make sure they aren't abusive. Thank you.


I looked. I'm good. She's good.

To clarify, if one person assaults another then regardless of consent, the person in legal hot water is the assaulter, not the assaulted person. I don't know what happened in your case, but I'm more interested in learning how you recognized your mistakes and what you do to avoid repeating them, rather than hearing a crusade designed to save the willing mobs who want their spanks and whippings.


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 8:48:07 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Help! I'm abused! Someone rescue me from this bad, bad man who beats me and leaves bite marks, bruises, cuts, welts, etc....all over my entire body!!!



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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 8:51:01 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		You forgot to mention both squids and cigars LW.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 8:51:28 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS
The thing for everyone involved to remember is, ALL PLAY SHOULD BE SAFE, SANE, CONSENSUAL....anything else IS actual abuse. There ARE people who will use the title "Dominant" to inflict extreme abuse on others, I know because I've had actual conversations with these assholes who tell Me, "I love it when they scream out their safeword and I just keep hitting." And I in turn love humiliating them in front of witnesses by calling them out for the ignorant criminals that they are.

--MM


Yup, someone better rescue me soon.




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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 8:55:15 PM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Help! I'm abused! Someone rescue me from this bad, bad man who beats me and leaves bite marks, bruises, cuts, welts, etc....all over my entire body!!!



Heck...the fact that he denies you coffee is a serious misuse of his authority. Juan Valdez to the rescue!

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 8:57:19 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

You forgot to mention both squids and cigars LW.


Oh yeah....help! He burns me with cigars/cigarettes and stuffs squids into my cunt! Help! I'm abused! Come rescue me please!

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 9:02:02 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		Uhhhhhh, squid??? Innnnnnteresting.....

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 9:03:24 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		To me, there are two differentiators between WIITWD and abuse:

Abuse is nonconsensual while BDSM is consensual, and in BDSM, the Top is in control of himself while an abuser is out of control.

Note that the definitions are nice and neat, while in RL there are gray areas. Also, note that from a legal POV, there can be no consent to assault, so that they do not distinguish between consensual kink and abuse.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 9:05:32 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity

Uhhhhhh, squid??? Innnnnnteresting.....


There's always the possibility the squid is being abused. Op, the squid on the other hand, might need your help.



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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 9:13:31 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		Oh, DarkSteven, now I have to get into the whole no limits thing. Sometimes the only consent as such in these relationships is that consent is not a viable construct and unavailable to the submissive. Crap. Now what?

And then there's the whole, dark bdsm thing with the understood terms that the dominant is to simply express uncensored emotion, including anger and rage upon the submissive as this is viewed as hot and erotically raw and honest, rather stuffing things down and staying "in control" all of the time. It's a bit of a rarity, but it's out there.

I guess if both of those are dynamics within the relationship, then there may be absolutely no way of differentiating bdsm and power exchange from abuse. That's why the law just doesn't even bother trying. That'd be them there grey areas you were talking about. Just thought the OP could use a little further confusion on the matter.

SD

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 9:19:14 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		While I mostly agree DS I always want to insert consequence into statements like yours. To me, the end result matters a great deal no matter what head nodding or hand waving has occurred prior. Intent also matters to me. Within the parameters ypu describe I could be highly abusive to Carol... "consent" notwithstanding. Nor do I see how me being "in control" changes anything at all. I can easily imagine myself being highly abusive in a cool, coldly calculating way since that is exactly my MO.

As much as I understand your intent (and the general intent when people focus on consent), to a personality like mine your boundaries would be license to kill were I so inclined. If Carol came to real harm through all my manipulations of her I somehow suspect I'd find cold comfort in the fact that she consented.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 9:23:05 PM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxogirl

I do understand I am young and fairly inexperienced; however, I have come to find that there are doms who take advantage of that label and use it to abuse women/subs for there pleasure. Any time someone is hitting another person in a way they don't enjoy it is abuse. And under the law anytime you lay a hand on someone it is battery in just about any state of the Union. Yes, there are some D/s relationships that work out beautifully. Again most young people just starting out in the lifestyle as a sub will end up like me; with a fucked up stories of abuse that happened to them because a psycho path wanted to label himself a "dom" and torture a young girl. Plus a "dom" isn't a legal title and wouldn't hold up in court. If there ever was an investigation and the only defense you had was "i'm a dom" it wouldn't hold up. And also all the bruises, cuts, burns, scars, and other things you may do to someone can seriously damage them. Blood clots from too hard of a spanking or nipple sucking or hickies. Cutting a vain. Burning someone to where they had no feeling. Plus STD's and bacteria is very common these days and no one wants that.
So again I think we should look at our relationships and make sure they aren't abusive. Thank you.


This is all so much BS. OP, your story is your own, it does not transfer across the board to scores of other people. Unconsensual abuse is horrible. However, people such as yourself have no right to make blanket statements and assumptions about the lives of others. It's just as wrong to make false accusations as it is to physically wrong someone. Dudley Do Rights often miss that little bit of social responsibility when they start pointing fingers. Be damn sure you are right about something, and not fostering and actively nurturing half baked delusions of wrongdoing.

Every woman and man out there should know where their limits are and have a clear idea of where their boundaries are as well. Then, they have to make sure they are enforced. Mistakes happen, any continual ignoring of limits and boundaries signals the person to get out of Dodge.

I agree with the theory that if you are offering counseling then you need to undertake professional training. Also, please consider taking an English class. As a group leader on another site, a more polished presence in the rudiments of the language you are communicating in would lend you a more professional appearance.

(in reply to xoxogirl)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 10:34:41 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxogirl

The way I see it (and believe me, I love to be kinky) there is a difference between an ass slap during sex or bondage, compared to being so bloody you can't walk out of the house the next day (that's happened to me!). When you have to cover up marks someone has left on you, there is a problem.




I'm sure someone else touched on it, but I haven't read the whole thread yet. Am just responding to the OP here at this point:

Um, no.

Many of us enjoy blood play. Many of us enjoy being achy and sore after playing. Many of us like having marks on our bodies.

My friends and husband don't do any of that against my will nor do I do any of that against them.

My husband is my slave. I *tell* him to beat me how *I like* to be beaten.

I cut on him because we *both* enjoy my cutting on him.

I put needles into him and others because we *all* enjoy it.

It's not abuse if everyone is going "me!me!me! yay!". lol.


_____________________________

Relationships come and go, but plastination is forever.

I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

Minimal summary: Artist, Disabled Veteran, Vegan, Pornographer, and Agender dominant female.

(in reply to xoxogirl)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 10:38:27 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I didn't know we had an M/s switch couple. That ROCKS!

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to RumpusParable)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 10:55:36 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		lol, yep! Thanks!

Oh, an additional note (since I did see on reading that many already said what I did and they brought up another good point I want to second/third/whatever):

Chael is not a masochist. He doesn't like the pain part of bottoming to me. He'd prefer to avoid that.

But he *does* like bottoming to me. He often is the one to come up to me and say "let's do a cutting!". Because he likes the attention, he likes the service of being canvas to me, he likes fighting against his dislike of the pain, and he likes having what he considers cool and pretty marks on him afterwards from me.


Also, do remember OP that it's not just subs that end up in abusive relationships. Dominants do, too. And as others have pointed out, this isn't something special or even more prevalent in BDSM relationships.

I've been in two past abusive relationships with people who were *submissive to me*. It wasn't because I was new to BDSM or that they weren't and were trying to manipulate me through it... I was the one with more experience. It was just that we were toxic for each other. I made bad choices, I let them manipulate me and push me past my healthy boundaries.

That was abuse. Not the marks Chael and I put on each other.

And in both cases very much a ton of the responsibility for those bad relationships was on *me*. They were wrong for being assholes, I was wrong for letting them be. In both cases I finally got my head straight and told them goodbye. Who you're with, unless chained to a radiator or some such, is your own responsibility. Life goes badly at times, we end up someplace or somehow we weren't expecting or planned badly to get to, but we can't write that all off on the other person. It's still always on the individual to set their own boundaries and enforce them.

What I have with Chael is quite healthy, thanks. There's personal boundaries (the ones that suit us), there's respect, there's good communication, and love.

We just happen to like to cause blood and bruises while we're having fun together.

And just because I'm feeling a little evily playful, OP, take a look at my profile photos... I'm sure you'll enjoy our Happy Holidays picture. ;)

_____________________________

Relationships come and go, but plastination is forever.

I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

Minimal summary: Artist, Disabled Veteran, Vegan, Pornographer, and Agender dominant female.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 10:55:39 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		You seem to be asking two questions...

Are my realationships abusive? I'm a sadist so yes they are.
Are any of my friends in abusive realationships? Yes they are and if you try to mess with them they will remove you from their lives.

Thanks for asking questions that are easy to answer.

I'm sorry if you were abused and wanted things to change. You are within your right to change your life in any way you want. Do not assume though that others want theirs changed.

*coming from a domme that had a sub break her nose, her finger (twice), and a toe. It wasn't abuse he is just very clumsy. Maybe someone should protect me from him?

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to xoxogirl)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 11:26:24 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable
lol, yep! Thanks!

I'm dead serious. One of the things I note is that we have a lot of homogeneity on these boards. In MAsT meetings there were always a few couples that made your brain hurt while you tried to sort it out. Personally, I liked the couple that switched the control dynamic. One was always absolutely in charge but it seemed to flow pretty fluidly back & forth between them according to the situation and some sort of psychic link between them :) It worked for them and I got some real respect for MAsT when nobody batted an eye at their introduction. There was no "one true way" there... particularly impressive for a leather org where I would've expected a more "traditional" viewpoint.

So yes, I very much like knowing we have some of the "other" combinations on these boards. Oh, and thank you for pointing this out:

Also, do remember OP that it's not just subs that end up in abusive relationships. Dominants do, too.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 12/29/2012 11:27:36 PM >

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to RumpusParable)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/29/2012 11:39:54 PM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		~FRing it~

Perhaps instead of casting the abuse blanket over consenting people doing what they do in their relationships, perhaps your time could be better spent guiding other TNGs as to what went wrong as far as your personal choices went and maybe give them the warning signs they should look out for. Your bad experiences are obviously not shared by others who are in M/s type relationships. There is a HUGE difference between an domestic violence abuser and a sadist or dominant.

Oh and about the squid...Im both dying to ask and afraid to hear the answer

< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 12/29/2012 11:41:41 PM >

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/30/2012 12:00:07 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		hahaha....let's just say Master seems to get a rise out of the Japanese porn of girls being stuffed with eels, octopus and leeches.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Abuse in the community - 12/30/2012 12:51:23 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		FR:

I've been in an abusive relationship, and though it was mostly emotionally abusive, it was still very damaging to me.

I have sisters (yes, more than one) who have been in physically and emotionally abusive relationships.

This is not about BDSM, it's about domestic violence (DV). Domestic violence is rampant in this country, so I have no doubt that there are D/s or M/s relationships that are abusive.

HOWEVER, if there is one thing I have learned about DV, it's that there are two parties involved the abuser, AND his/her victim.

It's very easy to stop finding abusive men, you stop being a victim (now that part can be hard).

If you have been in an abusive relationship, I strongly suggest you get counseling.

Per the OP's profile, she has an agenda to stop abuse in the BDSM community. And although she may mean well, what she is doing is enabling the (potential) victims. This does absolutely nothing to stop the (potential) abuse.

Anyone who has educated themselves about DV knows it takes two to tango.



< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 12/30/2012 12:52:17 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 60
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