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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 5:49:48 PM   
littlewonder


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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 6:29:20 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

You claim men need to band together to reclaim their rights. I simply asked what rights don't we, as males, have. A simple list will suffice.


Where am I making these claims?

Right here:
quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81
the men's rights movement

You claim there is such a movement. The only possible reason there would need to be such a thing is if men were being denied some right. So which one(s)?

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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 6:42:54 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You claim there is such a movement. The only possible reason there would need to be such a thing is if men were being denied some right. So which one(s)?

The right to a fair shake in the family law courts.

The other things I care about aren't "rights". They are social changes to things which I believe hurt men & women both.


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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 7:22:54 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

"If men act in the same way as feminists" - What do you actually mean by this? Do you mean "If men promote gender equality?" do you mean "If men support equal pay for equal work?" - How do "feminists" act. Do you believe they all act in the same way? C'mon. throw me a bone here!


You know he doesn't mean 'feminist' in that way, Crazy. You and I, as well as others, have been all over that with him before. 'Feminist', for him, pretty much means 'woman who wants to get one up on men' by definition.


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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 7:31:28 PM   
naughtynick81


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quote:

You and I, as well as others, have been all over that with him before.


Wow really? I've never seen any of this. Are you sure you didn't see this in your sleep? heh

A feminist is a woman/man who self proclaims to be one and stands up against sexism against women while claiming that they are also against sexism men face while putting down men who raise the issue.

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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 7:36:05 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
A feminist in this context being any woman who doesn't get naked and spread her legs as soon as you snap your fingers?

Yes. That is exactly what I meant. Let me commend you on your astute comprehension of human nature.


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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 8:10:11 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You claim there is such a movement. The only possible reason there would need to be such a thing is if men were being denied some right. So which one(s)?

The right to a fair shake in the family law courts.

The other things I care about aren't "rights". They are social changes to things which I believe hurt men & women both.


Men are getting better treatment in family court without the actions of the so called men's rights movment. And if that is the only issue, and it is the best they've got, the solution isn't to attack feminists but to educate judges.

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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 8:14:23 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

You and I, as well as others, have been all over that with him before.


Wow really? I've never seen any of this. Are you sure you didn't see this in your sleep? heh

A feminist is a woman/man who self proclaims to be one and stands up against sexism against women while claiming that they are also against sexism men face while putting down men who raise the issue.


Really?  That is a new one on me.  And where did you get THIS lovely definition? 

(With the number of Women's Studies classes I took, one would think I would have ran across this before.)

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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 8:34:35 PM   
naughtynick81


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quote:

With the number of Women's Studies classes I took, one would think I would have ran across this before.


Wow crazy, so a male who just simply makes random complaints in a forum is a whiner and cry baby but a woman who devotes a lot of her life as for doing women's studies classes is not.

So tell me, who is the one more devoted about complaining? Me randomly making posts in the forums on and off on an occasional basis or a woman who devotes all this time in women's studies classes?

What's the bigger commitment of complaining here?

Gotta larf!

So many shameless hypocrites in this world.

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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 8:36:55 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 9:01:43 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

With the number of Women's Studies classes I took, one would think I would have ran across this before.


Wow crazy, so a male who just simply makes random complaints in a forum is a whiner and cry baby but a woman who devotes a lot of her life as for doing women's studies classes is not.

So tell me, who is the one more devoted about complaining? Me randomly making posts in the forums on and off on an occasional basis or a woman who devotes all this time in women's studies classes?

What's the bigger commitment of complaining here?

Gotta larf!

So many shameless hypocrites in this world.


I am not in school anymore, Sparkles. 

A lot of my life?  Not so much, Sugar-booger.  I think that I already mentioned that the field I work in is not female dominated. I fail to see where I complained about the situation. 

You are percieved as whining and crying because you complain but do NOTHING to fix what it is you are unhappy with, Sweet-cheeks. 

You complain and write to a forum board because it imposes no real pressure to decide on an action or stand accountable for how your life prgresses. 

Victimhood is not something one dons to be attractive, Tootsi-pie

quote:

"Acknowledgement is a no-kidding, unvarnished, bottom-line, truthful confrontation with yourself about what you are doing or not doing, or what you are putting up with in your life that is destructive. It's not some pious, phoney-baloney, half-hearted rendition of what you think they want to hear. Nor is it a watered-down, politically correct 'confession' that you think will buy you closure at the expense of truth. I mean brutal reality: slapping yourself in the face and admitting what you are doing to screw up your life. This also means admitting that you are getting payoffs for what you're doing, however sick or subtle those payoffs are."
-- Philip C. McGraw (from "Life Strategies")  


Of course, acknowledgement is just the FIRST step down a very long road. And I have seen people stuck on that one for years.

What are YOU getting out of all this victimhood and crying about all those MEANIE women?  I certainly hope that it is worth the price.

Babykins, the women on these boards do not have a problem with men.  They have a problem with STUPID men.


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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/30/2012 11:43:14 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

"If men act in the same way as feminists" - What do you actually mean by this? Do you mean "If men promote gender equality?" do you mean "If men support equal pay for equal work?" - How do "feminists" act. Do you believe they all act in the same way? C'mon. throw me a bone here!


You know he doesn't mean 'feminist' in that way, Crazy. You and I, as well as others, have been all over that with him before. 'Feminist', for him, pretty much means 'woman who wants to get one up on men' by definition.



Oh.. so it's as bad as that?

He's making statements and claims using a word that he doesn't actually understand?

Oh goodness, that is really very very sad.

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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/31/2012 1:30:17 AM   
crazyml


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Status: offline 		Oh poppet!

I so want to help.

Could you give an example of this anti male bigotry please? Preferably, not your interpretation of it (which I think might be faulty).

Can I also ask (as I think it will help you with the trouble you appear to be having)

Have you ever felt alienated, as if nobody "gets" you?

Can you think of a reason why your posts might produce a negative response?



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RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/31/2012 1:54:06 AM   
naughtynick81


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quote:

Could you give an example of this anti male bigotry please?


Well lets see. People like you think a male isn't entitled to complain about feminists being sexist and hypocritical. You expect men to just shut up and never say a word right? We are just supposed to be silent and deferential. If we do complain, we are all these negative things. It's all our fault, it can not be the fault of the feminists being sexist, noooo never.

This is a perfect example of anti male bigotry.

Stop blaming me for the wrong thing feminists do.




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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: When it comes to feminism, slut shaming is bad, vir... - 12/31/2012 2:00:19 AM   
crazyml


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That's a really good start nick!


quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

Could you give an example of this anti male bigotry please?


Well lets see. People like you think a male isn't entitled to complain about feminists being sexist and hypocritical. You expect men to just shut up and never say a word right? We are just supposed to be silent and deferential. If we do complain, we are all these negative things. It's all our fault, it can not be the fault of the feminists being sexist, noooo never.

This is a perfect example of anti male bigotry.

Stop blaming me for the wrong thing feminists do.






Now, lets see if I've said, anywhere (ever) that a male isn't entitled to complain about feminists being sexist and hypocritical. Hmm... oh my. I think this might be where you're a little confused.

You see I've not said that. Ever. Nor do I believe it.

I've met a very small number of feminists that I'd classify as misandrists. But it's a tiny tiny number. But certainly if a self proclaimed feminist starts talking nonsense, it's actually your duty to challenge them.

But, you know - I really don't think that's the real issue here. I think we're looking at something deeper.

I think you need to look at the contexts in which you find yourself thinking that you're being put down by feminists and take a mature, reflective look at whether your actions might have prompted the put-down.

I think this is about you, nick.

I think you're very unhappy about something, and that perhaps this acting out of yours is a cry for help.

I so want to help you, you seem so lost nick.

Can I send you a big old hug?

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RE: ... - 12/31/2012 2:47:35 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

I think you need to look at the contexts in which you find yourself thinking that you're being put down by feminists and take a mature, reflective look at whether your actions might have prompted the put-down.


It's IMMATURE to blame me for complaining about feminists being sexist.


Oh Nicky, I thought we were making progress.

Is it immature to ask you to reflect on your actions?

Honestly, babes, it really isn't. If you're really struggling with this, ask a couple of your friends.


quote:



How hard is it to understand? Feminists being sexist = their fault, not mine.



Oh, you see I still think this acting out is for another reason. But, no - you're absolutely right, as I said in one of my earlier posts, if a feminist makes a sexist statement you're absolutely entitled to call them on it.

Indeed, we should all be open to being called on things.

For example, I used to be in the habit of calling men that I thought were particularly pathetic "bitch" or "cunt". Then a feminist friend pointed out that essentially I'm associating them with being female and asked if I thought that might be a little sexist of me. She was right, and I've tried to stop using those terms.

So, yes. In principle you're right... if someone seeks to belittle you by making statements about your sex life (accurate or otherwise) they're wrong to do it.

Of course, that doesn't mean that the point you were making that prompted the poor behaviour was a good one.

It could be that they are frustrated by your posting style, or even irritated by it - Which is why I'm so keen to see an example, because I'm sure I could help you with that.

Do you really not see anything in your posting behaviour or attitude that might cause people to say these unpleasant things to you?

quote:



If I make random arguments about feminism, what does my sexual life have to do with it?



Well... your sexual life could well be motivating the arguments you're making, so I think it could very well have a lot to do with it.

As I'm sure you can understand.

quote:



Can't you see that a person is being immature and sexist if they bring a person's sexual life into a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with it? They just bring it in as an childish ad hominem because they can't refute my point?


Well clearly, if a person resorts to ad hominem attacks because they cannot refute your point, then sure - they're being immature.

But, I can understand why some people are driven to it in some situations.

I'm sure, given the importance you clearly place on mature and appropriate behaviour, that you'll deplore the kind of little tosser who makes churlish point after churlish point, moving the goal posts and deliberately winding people up. Just as I'm sure you can see how that sort of little fuckwad might cause people to say "You're just acting out because you're a loser who can't get laid"?

Could you post a link to an example of where you've been mistreated in the way you describe?

quote:



You are just as bad and childish as the people I am complaining about when you say "I think this is about you, nick."



Oh nick, that was a hurtful thing to say. I'm giving you a thoughtful and honest response - And I do think this is about you, and some of the troubles you seem to have relating to women, and I so want to help you.

quote:



So lets say I complain about slutwalks. All the sudden you start attacking me about my sex life and saying its about me as your response to my point.

Can you see the immature stupidity?

I am sorry if you're not as logical as me to acknowledge this simple common sense.




Oh, I can see how there might be some immature stupidity here, nick; hence my desire to reach out to you and help you.

[ED for Quoting fix]

< Message edited by crazyml -- 12/31/2012 2:50:59 AM >

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RE: ... - 12/31/2012 3:14:49 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

Is it immature to ask you to reflect on your actions?


Actions on what? Just simply disagreeing with aspects of feminism? That's a wrong action? Haha. Do you know what bigot means?


I was asking you to reflect on the tone you may have used in making your argument, whether that might have caused annoyance. It would be so helpful to both of us if you could post a link to one of the conversations that resulted in your being mistreated so.

Could you re-read my last two posts, I think you missed the two distinct occasions where I really did make it ever so clear that you should be absolutely free to disagree with people when you think they are wrong.

quote:



So you think I'm not entitled to disagree with aspects of feminism or else if I openly do, my sex life should come into the discussion?

Wow how logical and mature of you.



I think you must be a little upset nick, because, I have actually said the exact opposite. I have said, very clearly that you are entitled to disagree, and that people shouldn't attack you for it.



quote:



There is no point arguing any more with you as you are obviously biased and bigoted. You don't seem to have much between the ears. You seem totally out of touch with reality. It's like arguing with a 5 year old kid.

ciao



Oh nick, I'm really sorry I couldn't help you today. There was a moment when I thought we might make progress.

I do hope that you feel less angry and confused soon, and I do wish you the very best 2013.

caio-for-now!








[ED to fix heinous spelling error]


< Message edited by crazyml -- 12/31/2012 3:16:40 AM >

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RE: ... - 12/31/2012 3:20:27 AM   
ARIES83


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RE: ... - 12/31/2012 4:51:02 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

I think you need to look at the contexts in which you find yourself thinking that you're being put down by feminists and take a mature, reflective look at whether your actions might have prompted the put-down.


It's IMMATURE to blame me for complaining about feminists being sexist.

How hard is it to understand? Feminists being sexist = their fault, not mine.

If I make random arguments about feminism, what does my sexual life have to do with it?

Can't you see that a person is being immature and sexist if they bring a person's sexual life into a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with it? They just bring it in as an childish ad hominem because they can't refute my point?

You are just as bad and childish as the people I am complaining about when you say "I think this is about you, nick."

So lets say I complain about slutwalks. All the sudden you start attacking me about my sex life and saying its about me as your response to my point.

Can you see the immature stupidity?

I am sorry if you're not as logical as me to acknowledge this simple common sense.


quote:

Your arguments are childish, your calling people stupid and retarded


But you ignore others calling me stupid and other such things which influenced me to give the same back. It's pointless having a discussion with you if you ignore the other side of it.







Dear Nick,

In reading through this thread, and similar comments you've made in the past I feel I can inform you of a few things. Whilst I agree that men are not always treated fairly, I can also say that women are also not always treated fairly. Personally, I've come to the conclusion that it is a battle for me to fight for myself. Not with whining and complaining but instead, on an as needed basis. Fortunately, through my own actions, it is a battle I've never really had to fight. My actions have garnered me fair, or above average treatment, most of my life. My current employment reflects that.

When it comes to equality for men, I do believe there are areas that deserve some attention. Primarily in family court, rights to equal parental decisions and time, etc. It is improving but far too slowly.

As for the complaints you've continued to make, I conclude that it is not 'them', it is you.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: ... - 12/31/2012 5:43:50 AM   
naughtynick81


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quote:

I conclude that it is not 'them', it is you.


Rightio, so feminists can be sexist and if I complain about it, it's "me".

Comedy gold



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Profile   Post #: 60
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