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Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 3:46:31 PM   
ccc3333


Posts: 156
Joined: 12/24/2012
Status: offline 		Hello all fellow masters ..

As far as my limited experience of being a master, i have always been under the assumption that a contract for a SUB, is mandatory, unless of course they have no limits, which i suppose would make them a slave....


Just wondering the thoughts of masters on this...

Thanks
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 3:54:35 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I think about the only thing that is mandatory is that everyone is breathing. After that its up in the air

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 3:57:36 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ccc3333

Hello all fellow masters ..

As far as my limited experience of being a master, i have always been under the assumption that a contract for a SUB, is mandatory, unless of course they have no limits, which i suppose would make them a slave....


Just wondering the thoughts of masters on this...

Thanks



1. You're not a Master. You're a Dom.
2. Contracts are not a bad idea, to clear up mutual expectations. However, they are NOT mandatory. They are purely guiding documents and have no legal basis.
3. There are slaves that are not no-limits.
4. I'm not a Master either.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to ccc3333)
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RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 3:58:07 PM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline 		I'm not a fellow master almost as much as you aren't, but I'd like to answer anyways.
Contract for sub mandatory?
Only if the sub is blonde, is living in a hotel room in a foreign country,
and in need of 1/3 of the cost of a plane ticket home.
For real.

Sure, there was snark in that answer, but take a look at this question with both eyes open.
Firstly, what if you don't have a contract (gasp). Are the BDSM police going to come and arrest you?
Arrest is a key word here, because, no BDSM contract in the world will hold up in a US Court.
Soooo, back to square one. If it is mandatory, and you don't have one, what then?

_____________________________

When the path ignites a soul, there’s no remaining in place.

(in reply to ccc3333)
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RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 4:02:24 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		They don't hold water and can't be enforced. So why do you assume you have to have one?

Beyond that, the greatest use in them is in the writing of it, it forces both parties to think things out hopefully.

But really, if paragraph 12B subsection 1 says the owner will make the sub feel loved and cared for, how do you prove that you did or didn't do it?

I get the feeling opie that you think the contract is one sided, with the requirements the s type has to do, not with the responsibilities of the d type.

And even so, how are you going to handle her not making dinner because she's sick? Does she need a doctor's note to agree that she has the cold from hell? The fact that you recovered from it in 6 days doesn't mean she still doesn't feel horrible 10 days later. Can you prove how she feels?

Or that she twisted her ankle and therefore can't handle the position she used to?

Your rules seem to be preventing you from meeting anyone. You appear to believe anyone you talk to is lying to you. That's why you have all these rules, to protect yourself. Funny how your lack of trust is causing others to distrust you.

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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 4:13:03 PM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		BDSM contracts are not mandatory. In fact, to my mind they seem kind of rare. I don't actually know anyone who has used one.

(in reply to ccc3333)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 4:16:39 PM   
ccc3333


Posts: 156
Joined: 12/24/2012
Status: offline 		Seriously you guys are missing my question.

The reason i do contracts with subs, is because i wan't to be perfectly clear where the limits are, etc etc... this is a fairly common practice i hear... but not mandatory i suppose.

For some reason i feel like everyone is just being negative rather than actually answering. perhaps because i called myself a master, which is what my subs call me... i am a DOM technically here.

Or perhaps my other posts pissed some people off ... :). either way, something constructive could work if someone would offer it. Instead of backtalk all the time, how bout some fact talk.

My rules preventing me meeting someone? not at all.... i'm pretty open to meeting people, and have learned and am learning how this works online. Which is why i ask questions, because guess what... THE SQUEEKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE :)

C

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 4:27:19 PM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline 		Please don't flatter yourself too much by thinking others get emotional over your presence.
I answered your question honestly. Should I have done so while simultaneously spinning on my head and reciting the alphabet in reverse?

_____________________________

When the path ignites a soul, there’s no remaining in place.

(in reply to ccc3333)
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RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 4:51:14 PM   
ccc3333


Posts: 156
Joined: 12/24/2012
Status: offline 		I'll rephrase...


When you first start with a Sub or slave, is it mandatory to write down the rules together and make the limits clear on paper, or do most people do it verbally.

C
quote:

ORIGINAL: poise

Please don't flatter yourself too much by thinking others get emotional over your presence.
I answered your question honestly. Should I have done so while simultaneously spinning on my head and reciting the alphabet in reverse?


(in reply to poise)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 4:51:49 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ccc3333

The reason i do contracts with subs, is because i wan't to be perfectly clear where the limits are, etc etc...


I'd rethink that. My contract is written in general terms. The relationship will change over time, and limits will as well.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to ccc3333)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 4:52:16 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe everyone is being rather negative because it is a silly question. For any absolute statement, there will be someone who can prove it wrong - therefore logic would suggest that contracts for subs are not mandatory.

If they work for you, great.
I didn't need one.

(in reply to poise)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 4:52:45 PM   
xLaChienne


Posts: 259
Joined: 11/12/2011
Status: offline 		If I were to have multiple submissives then I could possibly, maybe see a use for contracts. To keep them straight and such.

However, as I only seek one submissive in which I can build a relationship with that incorporates the dynamic I enjoy then a contract would be superfluous.

In the past I have kept a journal detailing thoughts and ideas that we have discussed or that I have coerced out of him as interests or fantasies.

Contracts definitely aren't mandatory. If it is something you enjoy, then by all means, employ it at will.

You asked for peoples thoughts and they gave them to you. Taking it personally that others aren't excited by the idea, find it pointless, or simply aren't interested is more a reflection of you than those who choose to participate. You might check out some of the groups on FL that are all geeked up about contracts and manifestos. Lot's of ideas and samples there.

(in reply to ccc3333)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 4:53:02 PM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ccc3333

Seriously you guys are missing my question.

The reason i do contracts with subs, is because i wan't to be perfectly clear where the limits are, etc etc... this is a fairly common practice i hear... but not mandatory i suppose.

For some reason i feel like everyone is just being negative rather than actually answering. perhaps because i called myself a master, which is what my subs call me... i am a DOM technically here.

Or perhaps my other posts pissed some people off ... :). either way, something constructive could work if someone would offer it. Instead of backtalk all the time, how bout some fact talk.

My rules preventing me meeting someone? not at all.... i'm pretty open to meeting people, and have learned and am learning how this works online. Which is why i ask questions, because guess what... THE SQUEEKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE :)

C


How are we missing the question? You asked if contracts are mandatory, that's the only question I saw in your OP, I answered you and said no...figured I'd throw in the part about them seeming kind of rare, to me, so you had a frame of reference. How is that being negative and not answering you?

You say you want to do them...ok. Great. Hope it works out for you.

(in reply to ccc3333)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 4:57:25 PM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ccc3333

I'll rephrase...


When you first start with a Sub or slave, is it mandatory to write down the rules together and make the limits clear on paper, or do most people do it verbally.

C


I've never really done either- just talked to the guy in general and let the chips fall where they may. I probably told him my hard limits and if other things came up in the course of a conversation then they did. It was never anything preplanned or formal. Worked out just fine. Do what appeals to you - I don't feel that i need much structure.

(in reply to ccc3333)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 5:10:13 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ccc3333
The reason i do contracts with subs, is because i wan't to be perfectly clear where the limits are, etc etc... this is a fairly common practice i hear... but not mandatory i suppose.

I am not a master or dom but its a forum and anyone can post..

just how many living, breathing subs have signed contracts with you??? just the fact that you are asking and seem to think a contract is mandatory or even common makes me think not many, if any, have.. and i believe you said elsewhere that your previous relationships were vanilla, or something to that effect..

My experience with contracts is they are slanted only for the benefit of the person that writes them.. which would mean they are for your benefit.. I have enough experience with contracts that anyone trying to give me one to sign would put me off, entirely.. and a sign the "relationship" is doomed before it starts.. I would walk and consider that i was done a favor by not having my time wasted any further.. But then I want a relationship with someone that i can talk to, someone that is honest in his likes, dislikes, expectations, etc so we can see how compatible we are.. if we are compatible and in agreement with the important and relevant things then a contract is not even necessary anyway..

Imo, the only time you need a contract (in a relationship) is when you decide to live together or get hitched.. and that just to spell out the financial/asset stuff and any kid stuff..

jmo


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RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 5:31:39 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		The only thing "mandatory" is what my owner says is mandatory *for me.* Everyone can conduct their relationships in whatever way they think is best. Some have contracts, some do not.

We created a contract - together - last year. Three years into the relationship. It's more of a "Commitment Document" than anything, as between the two of us, we're managing two homes, three jobs, one kid, 80 miles between us, an elderly mother, and until recently, a terminally ill family member. Things were being overlooked, and we sat down together over the course of a few months, and jotted down those things that are important to us, and commitments we need to keep, for the health of this relationship.

Some find contracts very symbolic, others find them useless.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 6:10:53 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ccc3333

I'll rephrase...


When you first start with a Sub or slave, is it mandatory to write down the rules together and make the limits clear on paper, or do most people do it verbally.

C



There was a lot of communication between us before we began anything formal.

But no, the man who became Master to me did not do this in any written form.

My limits have changed over the nearly 4 years we have been together.

Personally, I don't think it is limits that get most people into trouble.
I think often it is mis-matched expectations.




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(in reply to ccc3333)
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RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 6:40:11 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ccc3333

I'll rephrase...


When you first start with a Sub or slave, is it mandatory to write down the rules together and make the limits clear on paper, or do most people do it verbally.



My answer doesn't change to your rephrased question. Wanna try again?

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ccc3333)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 6:44:02 PM   
ccc3333


Posts: 156
Joined: 12/24/2012
Status: offline 		Thats your opinion... glad to hear it !

some people prefer to know the limits and what theye are getting into.. etc etc...

Some don't care though : ).

thanks all for the opinions.
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: ccc3333

I'll rephrase...


When you first start with a Sub or slave, is it mandatory to write down the rules together and make the limits clear on paper, or do most people do it verbally.



My answer doesn't change to your rephrased question. Wanna try again?


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Contract for sub mandatory? - 1/1/2013 7:09:40 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Y'know, I think you're using the word "limits" differently than we do. I think you're thinking of them as a set of "do this, don't do that" directives. Everyday, general things. When I use them, it means absolute "thou shalt not" things such as bestiality, scat, etc.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to ccc3333)
Profile   Post #: 20
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