RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


Aylee -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/4/2013 7:26:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaNewAgeViking

Gawd! This revisionism is repugnant! The reason a 'well regulated militia' was thought necessary to a free society in the beginning was:

A: the United States was a shallow band along the Atlantic seaboard, and faced the very real risk of aggression by England or France or both, and:

B: most of the interior faced the very real danger of Indian raids, and:

C: the United States didn't trust the Army, which was kept a tiny cadre unable to meet our legitimate defense needs.

What little military we did have then, both 'Federals' and state Guard, focussed on manning coastal defenses and a few fortified strongpoints in the interior. If trouble came up, the citizenry were expected to grab their muskets and deal with it themselves. This treasonous garbage about 'defending' ourselves from Washington is recent revisionist rot.

[sm=banghead.gif]


Revisonist, huh?  There was this one document I read that talked about the natural right of people to change their government by force.  Now how did that go???




When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
 
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
 
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
 
 
 
 
 
Maybe Tazzy could help me find a link to where I could find this document.  I am sure that I have seen it somewhere. 




tazzygirl -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/4/2013 8:33:54 PM)

Of course this bill isnt the only method. Think of others they are using, methods other countries have used... something everyone wants. [;)]




jlf1961 -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/4/2013 9:22:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Of course this bill isnt the only method. Think of others they are using, methods other countries have used... something everyone wants. [;)]



Methods other countries have used, like the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and Communist China, North Korea?




jlf1961 -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/4/2013 10:40:20 PM)

Besides it is not men with guns that are the major threat, as the following photo proves.

[image]http://api.ning.com/files/fFflGiDG04hMvd9K-auBpWqacP901YHMOlNVM*ML2f4WY3cEkCdmTTX7HX-fnWXdAj0zPQYHnfUQPVR7T6tBWHvkPqYyj4PF/GunsDontKillPeople.png[/image]




tazzygirl -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/4/2013 10:42:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Of course this bill isnt the only method. Think of others they are using, methods other countries have used... something everyone wants. [;)]



Methods other countries have used, like the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and Communist China, North Korea?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_buyback_program#In_Australia




jlf1961 -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/4/2013 11:02:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Of course this bill isnt the only method. Think of others they are using, methods other countries have used... something everyone wants. [;)]



Methods other countries have used, like the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and Communist China, North Korea?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_buyback_program#In_Australia



yep, sounds good, make guns illegal and then pay for the owners to sell em back to the government to keep from going to jail.

Guess what part of the constitution has to go bye bye?




Edwynn -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/4/2013 11:24:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

In the colonial days, South Carolina had banned the slave trade and Virginia had attempted to do the same, but the British government having given special protection to The Royal African Company, the colonies' efforts were ultimately futile.




You need to read why the two states wanted the slave trade banned. It wasnt exactly about the rights and wrongs of slavery.

In any evet South Carolina opened the slave trade again in 1803.




Congrats on your latest fast-google/now-I'm-an-expert endeavor. But you knew all about this before my post brought it to your attention, right?

Right.

No, it wasn't for purpose of banning slavery altogether, it was for purpose of telling the British Royal African Company slave traders to fuck off (as pointed out in the post), just as the dumping of 45 tons of tea into the waters of Boston Harbor was for purpose of telling the British East India Company to fuck off with their monopoly.

The colonists weren't just rejecting George III, they were British subjects abroad who were attempting to do what a lot of British citizens had been trying (unsuccessfully) to do for a long time, and that was to throw off the shackles of the 'crony capitalism' of the day, and aristocratic control of all wealth distribution to their own favor, to the detriment of society as a whole.





Edwynn -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/4/2013 11:30:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Besides it is not men with guns that are the major threat, as the following photo proves.

[image]http://api.ning.com/files/fFflGiDG04hMvd9K-auBpWqacP901YHMOlNVM*ML2f4WY3cEkCdmTTX7HX-fnWXdAj0zPQYHnfUQPVR7T6tBWHvkPqYyj4PF/GunsDontKillPeople.png[/image]




~sigh ... ~


More dog assassins. And at such a young age.

When will the madness end?






jlf1961 -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/4/2013 11:42:12 PM)

Edwynn,

I am trying to find a picture I saw the other day of a pit bull at a M2 50 cal mg.

Due to a rash of home invasions in my area (I live well outside of town and LEO response time to my house can be as long as 20 minutes) I have one of my guns outside my safe. It is colt model 1911 45 pistol.


I have a two phase home defense system. Phase one is Princess, a 75% timber wolf and 25% siberian husky. Her pic is in my photos. She will make any intruder want to deal with me and the pistol rather than her and her teeth.

She also has a tendency not to let people she does not know very well get near my 10 month old great nephew.

As for the rest of my guns, the safe I have them in requires a key and a keypad combination to open. Same thing with the lock box I have the ammo and mags in.

I know the keypad combination and my sister keeps the keys around her neck.

And the gun safe is rated at four hours to break into.

That is what I think a responsible gun owner should do to secure his or her weapons.




Politesub53 -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/5/2013 3:46:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Congrats on your latest fast-google/now-I'm-an-expert endeavor. But you knew all about this before my post brought it to your attention, right?

Right.




Pot kettle and black old chap.




Edwynn -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/5/2013 4:16:50 AM)



I got my info on the SC stance vs. slave traders in books checked out from the library more than 20 years ago, well before google ever came along.

And I did in fact somewhat recently come upon the information that the British East India Company was trying to figure out what to do with the overstock of 18 million tons of tea in their London warehouses when the laws were passed giving favorable tax treatment to that entity that effectively put all other tea merchants out of business, from yet another library book; Cornered, by Barry C. Lynn.

In this day of everyone shouting "show me a link!" at the drop of a hat, I know this quaint approach isn't very popular.

Try this "show me a link!" crap at any respectable uni and see where it gets you.





Nosathro -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/5/2013 8:21:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Tazzy, it has been proved that everyone on the planet, given the right stimuli can suffer a psychotic break from reality. This is common with people with ptsd who suffered some form of abuse, and very common in returning combat vets.

A person suffering a psychotic break can react in two ways, lash out and commit violent acts against others, or simply take their own life.

Now since it cannot be predicted as to who will suffer such a break from reality, what do you suggest be done?

In this situation, Joe Blow, responsible and law abiding gun owner, military vet is perfectly alright Monday. Tuesday something happens and bingo he is no longer responsible or able to handle firearms without harming himself or others.

The laws are already in place that prevent anyone mentally unstable to purchase firearms. The problem, as shown in Virginia with Cho, was that the mental health records that would have kept him from purchasing a firearm was not part of the back ground check information.

99% of gun owners store their weapons safely, and depending on the area in which they live, they may have one weapon within easy reach, like I do. Granted, the odds are that the person foolish enough to break into my home will be dealt with effectively by Princess. She is a cute little thing, cuddly and full of fun. She doesnt bark at people coming into the house, but if they come in and she does not recognize them, she proceeds to growl and stop them unless told otherwise by me or my sister.

Like I said, she is a small dog, 75% timber wolf and 25% Siberian husky. There is a picture of her in my photos on my profile.

So she will probably be very effective at dealing with the intruder and me and my 1911 colt will probably be more redundant than effective.


You are a mental health expert? Oh you also mean people like James Holme, Jared Loughner, they had mental problems but had no trouble buying/getting guns and ammo. As for Adam Lanza, his mother was a very responsible gun owner, left guns out, that how her son got ahold them. Mental Illness just does not happen, with each there is a long history. I also wonder how a person in a canatonic state does either kill themselves or others...as you say. Oh and as to Cho the problem was not that part of the application was left blank, Cho did not sign a release of information as required.



If you knew the federal firearms laws, you would know that anyone that has a severe mental illness is not eligible to purchase a firearm. However, the states are responsible for putting that information on the record so that it shows up on the back ground check.

A person suffering from a psychotic break is not in a catatonic state every time. As for the release of information, under the HEPA laws, that only applies to family members, other health agencies etc. It does not apply when it is in reference to a firearm purchase. Read the appropriate federal statutes. The information goes to the state, which is responsible for making that information available for a back ground check.

Hell I didnt sign a fucking release for anything and my stay in a detox center shows up every time I buy a firearm. Explain that one mr know it all.


You failed to answer my question, What Medical School did you attend, Where did you do your residentency, I take it you focused on psychiatry, and can you post your license? HEPA..you mean HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996). You do have a very keen understanding of the law...




LizDeluxe -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/5/2013 9:58:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
You are right, air bags don't. They mitigate the potential damage to the victim.


Exactly. Personal protection.




Politesub53 -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/5/2013 2:02:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



I got my info on the SC stance vs. slave traders in books checked out from the library more than 20 years ago, well before google ever came along.

And I did in fact somewhat recently come upon the information that the British East India Company was trying to figure out what to do with the overstock of 18 million tons of tea in their London warehouses when the laws were passed giving favorable tax treatment to that entity that effectively put all other tea merchants out of business, from yet another library book; Cornered, by Barry C. Lynn.

In this day of everyone shouting "show me a link!" at the drop of a hat, I know this quaint approach isn't very popular.

Try this "show me a link!" crap at any respectable uni and see where it gets you.





Dont think you are the only person ever to pick up a book. FYI I am not adverse to using google as a link and it is clearly states that in said link. The reason I ask for links is anyone can state anything and insist it is true. It happens here day in and day out. I am not adverse to naming the book I have read as a source either.





jlf1961 -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/5/2013 4:52:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Tazzy, it has been proved that everyone on the planet, given the right stimuli can suffer a psychotic break from reality. This is common with people with ptsd who suffered some form of abuse, and very common in returning combat vets.

A person suffering a psychotic break can react in two ways, lash out and commit violent acts against others, or simply take their own life.

Now since it cannot be predicted as to who will suffer such a break from reality, what do you suggest be done?

In this situation, Joe Blow, responsible and law abiding gun owner, military vet is perfectly alright Monday. Tuesday something happens and bingo he is no longer responsible or able to handle firearms without harming himself or others.

The laws are already in place that prevent anyone mentally unstable to purchase firearms. The problem, as shown in Virginia with Cho, was that the mental health records that would have kept him from purchasing a firearm was not part of the back ground check information.

99% of gun owners store their weapons safely, and depending on the area in which they live, they may have one weapon within easy reach, like I do. Granted, the odds are that the person foolish enough to break into my home will be dealt with effectively by Princess. She is a cute little thing, cuddly and full of fun. She doesnt bark at people coming into the house, but if they come in and she does not recognize them, she proceeds to growl and stop them unless told otherwise by me or my sister.

Like I said, she is a small dog, 75% timber wolf and 25% Siberian husky. There is a picture of her in my photos on my profile.

So she will probably be very effective at dealing with the intruder and me and my 1911 colt will probably be more redundant than effective.


You are a mental health expert? Oh you also mean people like James Holme, Jared Loughner, they had mental problems but had no trouble buying/getting guns and ammo. As for Adam Lanza, his mother was a very responsible gun owner, left guns out, that how her son got ahold them. Mental Illness just does not happen, with each there is a long history. I also wonder how a person in a canatonic state does either kill themselves or others...as you say. Oh and as to Cho the problem was not that part of the application was left blank, Cho did not sign a release of information as required.



If you knew the federal firearms laws, you would know that anyone that has a severe mental illness is not eligible to purchase a firearm. However, the states are responsible for putting that information on the record so that it shows up on the back ground check.

A person suffering from a psychotic break is not in a catatonic state every time. As for the release of information, under the HEPA laws, that only applies to family members, other health agencies etc. It does not apply when it is in reference to a firearm purchase. Read the appropriate federal statutes. The information goes to the state, which is responsible for making that information available for a back ground check.

Hell I didnt sign a fucking release for anything and my stay in a detox center shows up every time I buy a firearm. Explain that one mr know it all.


You failed to answer my question, What Medical School did you attend, Where did you do your residentency, I take it you focused on psychiatry, and can you post your license? HEPA..you mean HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996). You do have a very keen understanding of the law...



Didnt attend medical school.

Just have dealt with the criminal justice system for a number of years and learned most of this during the course of investigations. While the "insanity" plea is used many times as a desperate attempt to get someone off, it is not always the case.





BamaD -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/5/2013 6:05:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Of course this bill isnt the only method. Think of others they are using, methods other countries have used... something everyone wants. [;)]



Methods other countries have used, like the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and Communist China, North Korea?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_buyback_program#In_Australia



yep, sounds good, make guns illegal and then pay for the owners to sell em back to the government to keep from going to jail.

Guess what part of the constitution has to go bye bye?

which or how many?




tazzygirl -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/5/2013 6:09:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Of course this bill isnt the only method. Think of others they are using, methods other countries have used... something everyone wants. [;)]



Methods other countries have used, like the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and Communist China, North Korea?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_buyback_program#In_Australia



yep, sounds good, make guns illegal and then pay for the owners to sell em back to the government to keep from going to jail.

Guess what part of the constitution has to go bye bye?


None [:D]




Aylee -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/5/2013 7:30:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Of course this bill isnt the only method. Think of others they are using, methods other countries have used... something everyone wants. [;)]



Methods other countries have used, like the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and Communist China, North Korea?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_buyback_program#In_Australia



yep, sounds good, make guns illegal and then pay for the owners to sell em back to the government to keep from going to jail.

Guess what part of the constitution has to go bye bye?


None [:D]


Umm. . . no.  If you really are going to get ALL of the firearms then you are looking at the end of amendments 2, 4, and 5.   At the least. 




tazzygirl -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/5/2013 8:06:18 PM)

I never said all. [;)]

That was the assumption of someone else.




jlf1961 -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/5/2013 8:09:49 PM)

I actually read the bill as it is written now.

35 sporting rifles that are not based on military frames fall into the category of "Assault Weapons" under the definition given.




Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.109375