RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution.

RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:05:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: That's not even a molecule of a drop in the bucket. I would be curious to know what so called assault weapons were turned in. Why would anyone turn in a firearm worth a thousand or more for two hundred at the grocery store ? Maybe they no longer worked. Maybe they stole them. Maybe they were cheap as I have seen some say they can get some of these guns for 50 bucks on the streets... 200 starts to look good in comparison. quote: I do foresee a problem. It's not exactly like gun owners are going to see themselves as common street punks. It's not like there won't be tens of millions of their brethren in the same boat. It's in effect creating tens of millions of a new criminal class with the stroke of a pen. Goverment does that all the time. Insurance requirements to drive wasnt always needed. A DL's wasnt always needed. Do it now without either and you are a criminal. There are many such laws. so its ok Is it ok that we have to have Driver's Licenses and Insurance?

lovmuffin -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:09:54 AM)
Drivers licenses and insurance is not a good comparison. Most people with any common sense carried insurance before all the states passed laws requiring it. Most people like the idea that insurance is mandatory. Ya can't stick a car under your coat or easily smuggle them around so laws concerning vehicles are easier to enforce. A full blow police state not withstanding, gun bans will be about as enforceable as drug or alcohol bans. We all know how well that works out.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:12:58 AM)
So I can put you down as someone who would not follow this if it becomes law.

lovmuffin -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:13:10 AM)
I think Tazzy answered your question BamaD

lovmuffin -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:14:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl So I can put you down as someone who would not follow this if it becomes law. What ??? Are you starting a list ?

tazzygirl -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:15:31 AM)
Yep [:D]

tazzygirl -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:17:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin I think Tazzy answered your question BamaD But you didnt answer it completely. quote: This is a tax paid ($200) transfer used if the machine gun is being sold to either an individual or a SOT. There can not be a physical transfer of the machine gun until the NFA Division of ATF approves the Form 4 by attaching a $200 tax stamp and sending it back to the transferor. Two original copies of the Form 4 are required and the following are the instructions for completing them. http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/the_transfer.html Doesnt this mean if you try to sell it, it costs you 200 dollars? But if you dont sell it, it doesnt? quote: Finestiens bill if enacted as it reads now pretty much bans an entire class of modern firearms and requires not only registration of those already in private hands but imposes a $200 tax via NFA classification(same as machine guns). We are talking about tens of millions of guns effecting tens of millions of their owners. All this because of maybe one tenth of a percentage point of the total number of these firearm types that are actually misused. Unfortunately the legislation isn't aimed at those who misuse these weapons but those who don't misuse them. Its a transfer tax... not a tax when the bill is signed. At least that is how I read it.

BamaD -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:23:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin I think Tazzy answered your question BamaD But you didnt answer it completely. quote: This is a tax paid ($200) transfer used if the machine gun is being sold to either an individual or a SOT. There can not be a physical transfer of the machine gun until the NFA Division of ATF approves the Form 4 by attaching a $200 tax stamp and sending it back to the transferor. Two original copies of the Form 4 are required and the following are the instructions for completing them. http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/the_transfer.html Doesnt this mean if you try to sell it, it costs you 200 dollars? But if you dont sell it, it doesnt? quote: Finestiens bill if enacted as it reads now pretty much bans an entire class of modern firearms and requires not only registration of those already in private hands but imposes a $200 tax via NFA classification(same as machine guns). We are talking about tens of millions of guns effecting tens of millions of their owners. All this because of maybe one tenth of a percentage point of the total number of these firearm types that are actually misused. Unfortunately the legislation isn't aimed at those who misuse these weapons but those who don't misuse them. Its a transfer tax... not a tax when the bill is signed. At least that is how I read it. maybe but in any case it give atf the right to search your home any time they want for any reason they want it also means that it would be immeadiatly confiscated if you couldn't qualify to own a machine gun and they don't need a reason to deny that. It also provides that you cannot transfer said weapon by any means even willing it this constitutes outright confiscation just maybe not today.

BamaD -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:24:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl So I can put you down as someone who would not follow this if it becomes law. What ??? Are you starting a list ? a police state doesn't work without informers

lovmuffin -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:29:37 AM)
I guess I jumped the gun(pardon the pun). That makes sense. The buyer would have to pay the tax if I were to sell my registered gun. I think I'll sell them all for big bucks right before any law would go into effect, then sit back and watch the fiasco. I'd throw the in the river before I would ever turn them in.

lovmuffin -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:32:56 AM)
BamaD is right. It would pretty much lead to confiscation. And you wonder why gun owners are apposed to it.

lovmuffin -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 1:47:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl So I can put you down as someone who would not follow this if it becomes law. What ??? Are you starting a list ? a police state doesn't work without informers Not in anyway directing this at Tazzy as she was kidding around but yeah informers would be invaluable to gun prohibitionists. Just what we want for the future of America, a bunch of Hitler youth running around. I would inform myself if I saw an idiot misusing his weapon like shooting it in the air on New Years Eve or committing a crime. I have been a witness to crimes actually, one of witch was an armed robbery, they didn't catch the guys and another was a purse snatching of which my ID's nabbed the sons of bitches.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 6:43:54 AM)
quote: maybe but in any case it give atf the right to search your home any time they want for any reason they want it also means that it would be immeadiatly confiscated if you couldn't qualify to own a machine gun and they don't need a reason to deny that. It also provides that you cannot transfer said weapon by any means even willing it this constitutes outright confiscation just maybe not today. No, they dont need a reason to deny that. The point is a chain of custody.... and you are complaining about being able to will it to someone?

BamaD -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 7:28:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl So I can put you down as someone who would not follow this if it becomes law. What ??? Are you starting a list ? a police state doesn't work without informers Not in anyway directing this at Tazzy as she was kidding around but yeah informers would be invaluable to gun prohibitionists. Just what we want for the future of America, a bunch of Hitler youth running around. I would inform myself if I saw an idiot misusing his weapon like shooting it in the air on New Years Eve or committing a crime. I have been a witness to crimes actually, one of witch was an armed robbery, they didn't catch the guys and another was a purse snatching of which my ID's nabbed the sons of bitches. I knew you two were joking

BamaD -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 7:29:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: maybe but in any case it give atf the right to search your home any time they want for any reason they want it also means that it would be immeadiatly confiscated if you couldn't qualify to own a machine gun and they don't need a reason to deny that. It also provides that you cannot transfer said weapon by any means even willing it this constitutes outright confiscation just maybe not today. No, they dont need a reason to deny that. The point is a chain of custody.... and you are complaining about being able to will it to someone? the only thing I inherited from my father was firearms

BamaD -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 7:37:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: maybe but in any case it give atf the right to search your home any time they want for any reason they want it also means that it would be immeadiatly confiscated if you couldn't qualify to own a machine gun and they don't need a reason to deny that. It also provides that you cannot transfer said weapon by any means even willing it this constitutes outright confiscation just maybe not today. No, they dont need a reason to deny that. The point is a chain of custody.... and you are complaining about being able to will it to someone? they are also being dishonest telling us there is no confiscation when the standards for gettinga full auto permit are, understandibley much higher than for other firearms people will not know untill it is too late that for most this will mean immediate confiscation. this will overload ATF as they will go from a few thousand (estimate) to several million. A few hotheads here a few there body count goes up real fast. While reading several assesment of this last night I came across a comment by NYC chief who said it would be so dangerous that half his force would quit first.

tazzygirl -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 8:03:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: maybe but in any case it give atf the right to search your home any time they want for any reason they want it also means that it would be immeadiatly confiscated if you couldn't qualify to own a machine gun and they don't need a reason to deny that. It also provides that you cannot transfer said weapon by any means even willing it this constitutes outright confiscation just maybe not today. No, they dont need a reason to deny that. The point is a chain of custody.... and you are complaining about being able to will it to someone? the only thing I inherited from my father was firearms Many of which can still be inherited... unless all he left you were automatics. I dont see you complaining that you cant inherit a tommy gun

tazzygirl -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 8:10:25 AM)
quote: they are also being dishonest telling us there is no confiscation when the standards for gettinga full auto permit are, understandibley much higher than for other firearms people will not know untill it is too late that for most this will mean immediate confiscation. So now you are arguing that people will be ignorant of the new laws and that isnt fair to them? quote: this will overload ATF as they will go from a few thousand (estimate) to several million. A few hotheads here a few there body count goes up real fast. While reading several assesment of this last night I came across a comment by NYC chief who said it would be so dangerous that half his force would quit first. Another who states all Doctors will leave the country if we implement health care laws? I see people complain all the time on the boards about other countries with much harsher gun laws than we have. But, if every step you attempt to make is hesitant because this might happen, or they might react, or the other might not like it... why bother moving at all? THATS what is happening in this country. And you are proud of that?

BamaD -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 8:17:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: maybe but in any case it give atf the right to search your home any time they want for any reason they want it also means that it would be immeadiatly confiscated if you couldn't qualify to own a machine gun and they don't need a reason to deny that. It also provides that you cannot transfer said weapon by any means even willing it this constitutes outright confiscation just maybe not today. No, they dont need a reason to deny that. The point is a chain of custody.... and you are complaining about being able to will it to someone? the only thing I inherited from my father was firearms Many of which can still be inherited... unless all he left you were automatics. I dont see you complaining that you cant inherit a tommy gun actually under todays rule you can inherit a tommy gun when I was with the sherrifs office someone inherited a maxim that their grandfather brought back from WW I

BamaD -> RE: Why was the 2nd Amendment written and added to the Constitution. (1/6/2013 8:40:46 AM)
interesting point, according to investor.com last year twice as many people were murdered by unarmed assalents as by assalant armed with a rifle of any kind

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