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RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/5/2013 2:21:39 PM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: alildifferent

I personally believe that a slave has one right. That right being to choose whom they want to serve for a specified period of time. Other rights are forfeited once slavery begins. A slave can state what they want prior to ownership. It's up to the owner to decide if it's followed though. Would you agree or disagree?


Well I agree 100% for you.

I disagree pretty much 100% for me.

But that's ok. You find a relationship that works for you, and I'll find one that works for me!

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RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/6/2013 6:23:16 AM   
TheLilSquaw


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quote:

ORIGINAL: alildifferent

I personally believe that a slave has one right. That right being to choose whom they want to serve for a specified period of time. Other rights are forfeited once slavery begins. A slave can state what they want prior to ownership. It's up to the owner to decide if it's followed though. Would you agree or disagree?


I disagree.

Every relationship has its own individual dynamic.
What works for one M/s couple may not work for another and there is no ONE TRUE way.
There is only the way that works for you and yours.

When I take on a slave.
We discuss what we both need and want from our relationship.
Everyone makes choices regardless of what label you wear or what side of the kneel you are on but every choice has consequences. Some good some bad and some simply are.

I will also say that if you think a slave contract is a binding contract you are wrong.
Simply because my slave's contract says it's for a year doesn't mean he can't choose to walk away tomorrow. He can. Doesn't make him any less a slave, simply means he is no longer MY slave.


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/6/2013 9:24:44 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		She has the right to suffer.
Other than that, anything she gets is a privilege, one that can be revoked.

Now, she can respectfully push the issue, and generally I'll let her speak her mind, hear her out (And if she makes sense, I've reversed decisions-I don't bat 1000%), but I make the final call.
Once that puppies made, it's on her to carry it out.

If she don't wanna...shrugs...see line one...there are ways of working these things out, persuading, so to speak

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RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/6/2013 10:13:50 AM   
xLaChienne


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Joined: 11/12/2011
Status: offline 		I assume you mean they have the right to choose an owner and not who that owner decides for them to serve?

That once they make a decision to serve an owner all other relationship rights are then up to the owner?

As to a slave stating what they want prior to the relationship, that is part of the negotiation. If an owner doesn't live up to what they have agreed to then they are shitty owner.

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RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/6/2013 10:25:34 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
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From: NYC now!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: alildifferent

I personally believe that a slave has one right. That right being to choose whom they want to serve for a specified period of time. Other rights are forfeited once slavery begins. A slave can state what they want prior to ownership. It's up to the owner to decide if it's followed though. Would you agree or disagree?


I don't agree, no.

I think they have the right to choose who they want to be with.

I think they have the right to have their limits/desires agreed upon prior to the start of the relationship kept during their slavery (note, this includes the fact that many folks have an understood/stated agreement that part of the enslavement will be changing boundaries over time, but that's not blanket for everyone no).

I also think they keep all their other legal rights in their country. They can choose to be in a relationship where they hand over that authority and agree to never use them. But no, my owning Chael doesn't stop the reality that he could leave me whenever he wanted if he wanted because there are things like restraining orders and jail time if I tried to force him back. The trick is having an M/s relationship where, whatever sort of understanding and agreements the people have in place for rules, limits, treatment, etc, the people involved want to stay involved. (and that last line includes agreements where within the context of the consensual agreement if one runs the other can retrieve.... but even those understandings still only hold up as long as the slave agrees to being retrieved).

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RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/6/2013 3:45:22 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xLaChienne

I assume you mean they have the right to choose an owner and not who that owner decides for them to serve?

That once they make a decision to serve an owner all other relationship rights are then up to the owner?

As to a slave stating what they want prior to the relationship, that is part of the negotiation. If an owner doesn't live up to what they have agreed to then they are shitty owner.


At which point they have the right to unchoose that owner. Or at any other point actually.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/6/2013 3:47:54 PM   
Baroana


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Status: offline 		Fast reply

OP, you're going to find that on this board, and elsewhere in this world, people define words their own way.

Does a slave have no rights other than the right to start and stop slavery? Only if that's what the word means to you.

From what I've seen here, most people do not define "slave" that way.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/6/2013 4:06:44 PM   
GoddessRaynna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Master allows me to have my own opinion. He doesn't always agree with it but he allows me to have it. However, he has the right to not allow that if that is his choice. Thankfully he likes to debate and discuss things with me and it would kinda cut those short if all I ever said was "I agree" lol.

If you're talking about choice to serve....I am a slave, not his sub so I had the choice to serve or not serve. Once I entered a relationship with him, that was my last choice unless he allows me to have a choice in something.

Now every relationship is different. If someone wants to have their own choices then that's their right if that's what they so choose. It's just important to find a person who wants the same thing as yourself
.


This is my first time responding to anything here, but this is my view on it also, and how I deal with Mine. But it's true we can't all be the same, it depends on how people start their relationships, and if they can grow together later or drift apart. Of course people change sometimes, want to try new things. My slave suddenly demanding a bunch of "rights" (choices) I haven't allowed would probably mean the end of our relationship if the issue got out of hand though. It would never turn into a legal thing, or a debate over its rights legally, because it would be over before it got that far.

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RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/6/2013 4:08:34 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle


quote:

ORIGINAL: xLaChienne

I assume you mean they have the right to choose an owner and not who that owner decides for them to serve?

That once they make a decision to serve an owner all other relationship rights are then up to the owner?

As to a slave stating what they want prior to the relationship, that is part of the negotiation. If an owner doesn't live up to what they have agreed to then they are shitty owner.


At which point they have the right to unchoose that owner. Or at any other point actually.



In our relationship, whenever Master chooses. Believe me, I've tried lol.


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RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/6/2013 5:29:12 PM   
Kaliko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: alildifferent

I personally believe that a slave has one right. That right being to choose whom they want to serve for a specified period of time. Other rights are forfeited once slavery begins. A slave can state what they want prior to ownership. It's up to the owner to decide if it's followed though. Would you agree or disagree?


Replace "slave" with "submissive" and that is pretty much how I see my D/s relationship, yes. (I don't use the term "slave," myself.) Deciding to fully submit to someone is the last decision I have a right to. That doesn't mean that nary a noise can I ever make again about something. It doesn't mean I lose all autonomy and independence. It doesn't mean he actually takes control of everything that he could. But it does mean that I don't have the right to pick and choose what he has say over and what he doesn't. There is no more negotiation about what rights I maintain versus what he has authority over. Once I'm in, I'm in.

(in reply to alildifferent)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/6/2013 11:37:49 PM   
TheDarkSaint


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quote:

ORIGINAL: alildifferent

A slave can state what they want prior to ownership. It's up to the owner to decide if it's followed though. Would you agree or disagree?


This just struck me as odd..

I might be misunderstanding.. But I read this sentence to mean that you felt that after a Master and potential slave had discussed boundaries and agreed to them.. Once the person submitted.. It was just fine and dandy to ignore the agreed to boundaries? Because.. The Master is the master now, right??

I don't think that frame of mind would serve well in either a professional relationship or a personal one. If you intend to be a Pro, there's no business sense in ignoring what your client is looking for. If it's a personal relationship, Why would you decide to ignore all the things that you could use to show you are a good and caring Master?

So yes, I'd say respect what was agreed. Teaching and showing those boundaries can be gone past is acceptable.

But throwing out the agreed upon limits/boundaries just because you think you are a master now, in my opinion is unacceptable.



Protect, defend, teach and discipline.. In that exact order..

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RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/7/2013 12:52:17 AM   
kezzo


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Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I have read a lot of rubbish in my time but most of you need to read the definition of the word SLAVE .....
My SLAVE has no rights. no will of her own that she is allowed to show me ...
she does as I wish, no questions no hesitation and all with grace and dignity.
If you think a slave has rights ...then you need to change the name of your submissiveness to something more suitable ,,,,, Yes in USA you have your bill of rights ,,but as a slave you waiver those rights... :)

(in reply to seekingreality)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/7/2013 1:09:50 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		You can't waiver those rights here in the USA lol.

Yeah, she can do as you tell her and you can say she has no rights but walk outside into the public and do something that others will see as not giving her one of those rights and I guarantee you.....she has rights according to the police. lol

They'll just laugh at you when you say "she waived those rights away to me. She has no rights". I wanna see that one lol.

Yes, I'm Master's slave and like you, I have no rights with HIM. But we walk out the door and he slaps me, someone's most likely gonna call the police or come over and yell at him for it.


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/7/2013 1:13:17 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

If they so choose, in a power exchange relationship, the one denoted as a slave can allow themselves to be treated as if they do not have any rights, or suppression of their will can happen so that they do not invoke their rights. There are legal rights and natural rights, that are not removed from someone unless they forfeit them or the authorities that granted the rights revoke them.

I believe too many confuse having rights with using the self determination to invoke them. The latter can be suspended or suppressed in various forms.


QFT

Especially the bolded part.


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/7/2013 1:17:58 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kezzo

I have read a lot of rubbish in my time but most of you need to read the definition of the word SLAVE .....
My SLAVE has no rights. no will of her own that she is allowed to show me ...
she does as I wish, no questions no hesitation and all with grace and dignity.
If you think a slave has rights ...then you need to change the name of your submissiveness to something more suitable ,,,,, Yes in USA you have your bill of rights ,,but as a slave you waiver those rights... :)



There are certain rights a slave cannot waiver, by law.

Having said that, its my decision not to push for those rights. In that aspect, I am invoking my right to stay within a relationship where I may have limited rights in relationship to his wishes.

I find, for myself, the more I suppress my own rights to please him, the less I want to push for "my own rights". For me, the ability to please is an aphrodisiac with incredible appeal.

I think its also important to ask.... the moment a slave says "no", is she still your slave?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/7/2013 5:53:43 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


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Joined: 3/15/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kezzo
My SLAVE has no rights. no will of her own that she is allowed to show me ...


This is a serious question, not snark, I am interested in how you run your relationship.

When you say she has no will that she is allowed to show you, does that mean you make every decision for her? How does she manage when you are at work or otherwise away from home? Is she allowed to take the initiative to do some laundry, for example? Is she allowed to ask you for things that she needs or wants, or express a worry, or have an ambition to achieve something? I am finding it hard to imagine how a person can show no will of their own, without you having to care for them 24/7 like a baby. Does this not put a lot of the burden on you?

As for the main question of the thread, just mark me down as 'whatever works for the people involved'. Mostly it comes down to arguing the definition of the word slave. It's not an argument that interests me really, since it's so personal and subjective and can often devolve into 'you don't know what you're talking about, you're not a true slave unless...'. I wouldn't presume to tell a person they are not a slave if they feel that's the label that fits them best, because that's not a judgment I can make. The dynamics of others doesn't affect me in any way, they can identify as an aardvark if it makes them happy.

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RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/7/2013 6:01:39 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


I think its also important to ask.... the moment a slave says "no", is she still your slave?

Well over here, the moment I say "no" (and I have, on a couple of occasions) is the moment the breaks screech and we figure out what's going wrong.

Cuz, like Kana, he doesn't bat 1000% either. And his ego is not so huge as to deny the idea that he might be wrong about something. If I say no to something (other than something like, "are we out of milk?"), then that's a flag that something is wrong. Whether I'm still considered his slave in the moment or not doesn't really matter - what matters is getting us back on track in the right direction, and fixing whatever just happened.

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RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/7/2013 7:23:18 AM   
kezzo


Posts: 21
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I am amazed by what I read
but then we are all different
a slave is a slave anything else is a different definition ,,, I do encourage her to think ,,but her thoughts are all based on what is best for ME.
I like a clean tidy home ,,laundry done each day and ironed ,,,dinner ready at 7 pm breakfast at 7 am ..I go out for midday meal.. she wears what I tell her ,,,she is naked when I am home. I purchase ALL her clothes. she does not use the phone unless for emergencies.
she is my slave

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/7/2013 8:24:19 AM   
OsideGirl


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From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kezzo
I have read a lot of rubbish in my time but most of you need to read the definition of the word SLAVE .....


Considering that consensual slavery is an oxymoron, that's a pretty big stretch.


I find this need to "define" and label everyone's roles ridiculous. I find it ridiculous to tell everyone else how their relationships should be run. I honestly don't care if anyone else here meets your definition of slave. As long as they're in a relationship that makes them happy, who the hell cares?

So, it again comes back to what I said the first time: Legally you cannot give up your rights, and since slavery is illegal, anything after that is a mutual agreement between adults about how they would like their relationship to work.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 1/7/2013 8:32:59 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Does a slave have this right in your opinion? - 1/7/2013 8:34:00 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kezzo

I have read a lot of rubbish in my time but most of you need to read the definition of the word SLAVE .....
My SLAVE has no rights. no will of her own that she is allowed to show me ...
she does as I wish, no questions no hesitation and all with grace and dignity.
If you think a slave has rights ...then you need to change the name of your submissiveness to something more suitable ,,,,, Yes in USA you have your bill of rights ,,but as a slave you waiver those rights... :)



Why are you telling other people that they are wrong unless they conform to what you think? You outlined what is right for your relationship, how lovely for the two of you. There is no law or defining rule on what being a slave encompasses exactly...you'll have to accept that some others do it differently. It is false that you think a slave in the USA waivers her rights. He/She still has them, they may choose to live a certain way, but the rights don't change.

(in reply to kezzo)
Profile   Post #: 40
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