RE: Male victimization in modern society.

RE: Male victimization in modern society. (Full Version)

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Aylee -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 10:18:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: US Military Deaths From 1950 – 2010 Women – 139 - 0.001% Men – 100,063 - 99.99% http://www.militaryfactory.com/vietnam/casualties.asp http://usiraq.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000671#miltfatstat Now this is just off the wall stupid. Women are not offered combat posts. Really? I think your response supports his point... or at least the point I'd have been making if I quoted those numbers. The bottom line is that men are expendable. I can like that or not but "women & children first" is not exactly a new sentiment. So yeah... women aren't offered combat posts... and what does that say about how we see men & women both? Honestly, I'm sanguine about that part. As a male I'd be the first to be defending "women & children first". As much as I really want equality I just can't wrap my head around not acting to protect women and children at the expense of my own life. So as much as I recognize the unfairness of that sort of thinking I'm still fine with it personally. Specifically I think women should be offered combat posts if they so desire but men shouldn't get the option. And yes, that means I'd rather see a male die than a female. Wait. . . so males have decided that females cannot take combat positions (and the perks, pay, and box checking that go with it) and THIS shows that females are taking advantage of males and making them victims?

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 10:25:17 PM)
quote: Wait. . . so males have decided that females cannot take combat positions (and the perks, pay, and box checking that go with it) and THIS shows that females are taking advantage of males and making them victims? No one ever said that females are taking advantage over males and making them victims. That said, plenty of females would back up the notion that only men should face war. Just like plenty would back up the notion of women given the lifeboat over men on a sinking ship. The point is that males aren't so privileged after all. We are expected to do all the dirty work. Men are deemed as disposable while women have to be protected. So this alone kinda makes me laugh when people claim that women are treated as the second class citizens.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 10:33:14 PM)
quote: The reason why men are less likely to report it is because society takes men less seriously in general. I disagree with that as a generalization. Take the rape incidence in Steuben Ohio for a prime example. quote: Secondly, if there are little to no support programs ( I don't mean phone help lines that do nothing), no wonder why we don't see more men coming out and showing it. I pulled up quite a few places in your country.... shall I look in the US? Many cites have men's shelters... many cities dont have women's shelters unless a woman is abused. That should not be so hard to understand. quote: It's like you inviting me to come to a place and not revealing the location of that place as there is no place to begin with. Then blame me for why this is happening. Yeah, you are going to make me pull up a list of DV shelters for both... http://www.mahomeless.org/get-help/survivors-of-domestic-violence/81-resource-links/116-dv-shelters-in-se-mass All listed shelters serve both men and women. England... Legal rights of men experiencing violence and abuse Advice on this website about your legal rights if you experience domestic violence applies equally to men and women. For example, if you are a man who has experienced domestic abuse: you have the right to apply to the council as homeless if you have had to leave your home you can take legal action against the perpetrator (eg by applying for an occupation order non-molestation order, or an injunction). you can report incidents to the police. http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/domestic_abuse/domestic_abuse_against_men Emergency Help Men who are victims of domestic abuse can call the same domestic violence hotlines as female victims: New York City Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-621-HOPE (4673) National Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) With the exception of a few shelters that are congregate living settings, all domestic violence shelters in New York City are able to accommodate male victims. http://www.cadvny.org/2009/09/14/help-for-men/ Think this rate is nation wide? Out of 100 domestic-violence cases filed in San Bernardino County, only about four involved male victims, said Traci Rediford, a victims' advocate for the District Attorney's Office. Read more: http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_21978313/shedding-light-male-domestic-violence#ixzz2HAryEleH I mean, really, there are places. Are they as prolific as women shelters? Nope. Could part of that reason be that men simply do not report? yep.

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 10:43:07 PM)
Tazzy There are places for men but very far and in between while women have a very healthy amount of sources. With the little selection for men, one would think that free positions for men would be a lot harder to get in places where they do provide support for men. Secondly, as these places are rare, they are less noticed.

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 10:45:52 PM)
Oh and you would notice, in the first link, these are for men with children only. In other words, men who have custody of their kids. How common is that? lol How it is exactly the fault of the male victims of why they get less or no help when society takes them far less seriously to begin with, therefore, it makes them less encouraged to expose it? If we tried to blame female victims, OMG misogyny.

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 10:52:25 PM)
Due to the very limited amount of resources for men, you have to think that men need to hold down their jobs and other aspects of their lives. If the closest shelter is a long way from where their jobs and other aspects of their lives are, it would make it difficult for them. On the other hand, women have resources everywhere so it's not much of a problem for them.

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:00:41 PM)
We live in a society where violence against men is either taken as a joke or people just choose to turn a blind eye. For example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZgzCHBJcfo&feature=relmfu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rkl_oLSKQc Yet you think men should magically feel just as encouraged as women to speak up about it when they are victims?

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:02:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 Tazzy There are places for men but very far and in between while women have a very healthy amount of sources. With the little selection for men, one would think that free positions for men would be a lot harder to get in places where they do provide support for men. Secondly, as these places are rare, they are less noticed. And yet many women's shelters end up using hotel rooms and the like because they run out of room in the shelters. As far as being "rare"? One has to look to actually find them. Many communities have shelters that are only known to officials... meaning, they dont appear on a map or a web site, but through the various reporting agencies. Something.. reporting... that men dont do. quote: Oh and you would notice, in the first link, these are for men with children only. In other words, men who have custody of their kids. How common is that? lol Incorrect. Emergency Shelter DOVE operates an 18-bed emergency shelter for individuals and families fleeing abusive relationships. Shelter guest services include: individual and family case management, crisis intervention/prevention, development of family strengths and needs assessment, assistance with basic needs, legal advocacy, benefits and systems advocacy, childcare, and children's services. In addition, guests are offered on-site sexual assault, mental health and substance abuse services through collaborations with DOVE's community partners. http://www.doveinc.info/ourservices.html#section-2 It plainly says.. for individuals and families... not individuals with familes... there is a difference that one little word makes. New Bedford Women's Center, Inc. (d/b/a The Women's Center) The Women's Center is the premier domestic violence, rape crisis center and child trauma program in the Southcoast area. For 38 years, The Women’s Center has provided comprehensive services, advocacy and support to the women, children and men who are victims of violence, abuse and trauma. The Women’s Center is a 501(c)(3) organization with offices in New Bedford and Fall River, Massachusetts. This is the same quote: How it is exactly the fault of the male victims of why they get less or no help when society takes them far less seriously to begin with, therefore, it makes them less encouraged to expose it? How many years did it take for women to get taken seriously? Decades of reporting, complaining and fighting the system. Now you want men to have a pass when they wont even complain? If a man cannot help himself by reporting, he can expect no help from anyone else. It all begins with him.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:08:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 Due to the very limited amount of resources for men, you have to think that men need to hold down their jobs and other aspects of their lives. If the closest shelter is a long way from where their jobs and other aspects of their lives are, it would make it difficult for them. On the other hand, women have resources everywhere so it's not much of a problem for them. Why would you assume a woman doesnt have to keep a job or travel? Do you think employers will give her an unlimited pass on time off? Hardly. quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 We live in a society where violence against men is either taken as a joke or people just choose to turn a blind eye. For example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZgzCHBJcfo&feature=relmfu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rkl_oLSKQc Yet you think men should magically feel just as encouraged as women to speak up about it when they are victims? Again, if men wont stick up for themselves and report it, why should anyone else interfere? Is it discriminatory? Yep. Its also their own fault. I cant help anyone who isnt wanting to help himself. DV laws here have changed, If a cop had seen the first video, the woman would have been arrested. If I had seen it, I would have called the cops. Women are told not to take the victim role... why is it ok for men to do so? Why are you advocating that instead of telling men to report, report, report, as women have been telling women for decades?

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:12:22 PM)
quote: DOVE operates an 18-bed emergency shelter for individuals and families Sorry if I misinterpreted it. But Tazzy, you totally ignore how society treats male victims compared to female victims. Just take a look at them videos I posted above for an example. You are trying to blame male victims for why they feel less encouraged to speak up about their experiences when society pretty much takes them far less seriously than female victims. Also, let's consider them holding down their jobs and the distance to the closest shelters....as there are far less resources for men. There may be plenty of help phone lines for men but little shelter services.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:20:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 quote: DOVE operates an 18-bed emergency shelter for individuals and families Sorry if I misinterpreted it. But Tazzy, you totally ignore how society treats male victims compared to female victims. Just take a look at them videos I posted above for an example. You are trying to blame male victims for why they feel less encouraged to speak up about their experiences when society pretty much takes them far less seriously than female victims. Also, let's consider them holding down their jobs and the distance to the closest shelters....as there are far less resources for men. There may be plenty of help phone lines for men but little shelter services. I am not ignoring it at all. Its deplorable. But its worth fighting for. Until women started actively reporting such things, they also had no help. Men want help, they have to report. Its the only way to "prove" the funding is needed. Having sociologists, psychologists, philosophers, professors, ect, isnt going to sway a politician. As long as men remain silent, politicians wont do anything, the funding wont come, the problem wont get any better. I posted to you from one city... out of 100 reported cases, only one man reported a case.... 1 out of 100. Just where do you think the money is going to go?

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:20:57 PM)
I've never ever seen an ad campaign on TV or posters in universities and on the streets that show men a number and place to get help. They may exist but my 31 years on this planet, I've never seen one. These ad campaigns centre around female victims. So there is no wonder why men feel less encouraged to get help compared to women. Society is so willing to help women while it remains subtle if there is any help for men.

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:24:50 PM)
quote: Men want help, they have to report What you don't realise is that as resources for men are pretty rare, many men don't find them. As I said in my last post, I've never seen an ad campaign on TV or out on the streets that involves men. You expect men to have HOPE to get help when the help out there is very subtle which many men just don't see. So no wonder why there are less men reaching for help as the help is a lot harder to find.

jlf1961 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:33:20 PM)
Actually resources for men in most incidents are the same ones for women, and are easy enough to find. On this topic, I would be happy if the next slasher movie to come out had a beautiful young woman running around in a bikini and a large knife killing teenagers at summer camp.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:35:23 PM)
http://www.oneinthree.com.au/malevictims/ http://www.adpunch.org/a-campaign-against-male-domestic-violence.html http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/jwt-examines-male-pov-in-domestic-violence-campaign_b6056 http://marybyronproject.wordpress.com/2011/07/08/domestic-violence-against-men-turning-the-tables-%E2%80%A6again/ http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/domestic-violence-against-men/MY00557 http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/2012/09/26/welsh-men-speak-out-as-victims-of-domestic-violence/ Its working, nick. Men are starting to speak out. But only starting too. This is a good fight. You picked a great one. But get more involved. Look at what is happening, see what more needs to be done. Why waste your time on feminist sites when you should be helping out on sites where men tend to go.

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:39:15 PM)
quote: But only starting too. As there are more resources popping up for them....but they are only starting to If there were an equal amount of resources advertising themselves for men, there would be just as many men seeking help. But I don't think you understand this logic.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:41:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: naughtynick81 quote: But only starting too. As there are more resources popping up for them....but they are only starting to If there were an equal amount of resources advertising themselves for men, there would be just as many men seeking help. But I don't think you understand this logic. I do understand that logic... its governments, which control the purse strings you are complaining about, who wont understand you. Their logic is.. as the need arises, we address the issue. No reporting, no need.

naughtynick81 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:47:20 PM)
I think EVERY DV support service should equally help and support men as they do for women. As there are a lack of resources for men compared to women, it's logical to think this will result to a lack of men asking for support.

tazzygirl -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:53:13 PM)
Logic has nothing to do with politics or funding. In the meantime, they are cutting back DV funds on women. There wasnt enough before, now there is even less.

jlf1961 -> RE: Male victimization in modern society. (1/5/2013 11:54:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Logic has nothing to do with politics or funding. In the meantime, they are cutting back DV funds on women. There wasnt enough before, now there is even less. They are cutting funding for all types of support, and barely cutting funding for defense.

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