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US federal budget - 1/5/2013 2:22:37 PM   
tazzygirl


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There is the US Federal budget. Tell me.... how would you determine what to cut and why?

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 1/5/2013 2:23:48 PM >

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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 3:33:20 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		SS - can be fixed. Index to longevity. Replace IOUs as time permits. Allow private retirement accounts, restricted to access by law except for certain emergencies, i.e. medical.

Defense. probably by 50%, even more. No one is going to attack us directly, i.e. China is not going to. We have Nukes. They have Nukes. Keep the subs. Carriers are expensive. Keep one or two, at home. Consolidate Air Force back into Navy / Marine / Army air. F-18s work just fine. Get out of foreign entanglements. They're expensive.

Medicare / Medicaid , the BIGGIE. Go here for explanation (since it's already done) More here. It's just the math. and even more here if you don't already get it.
Medicare's problem is more than just how much, if such is needed, to cut. It's internal to its operation.

Discretionary - cut 50%. Why not, if we're cutting. Kill Homeland Security and TSA.

Congressional pay - cut to minimum wage x 8hr x 365. You're not supposed to go there to get so well paid and have such perks. Also, no specials, like their own healthcare plan. Make it hurt (prison) if they violate their oath.

Obamacare - scrap it. (covered in Medicare above)

Hold the FED, if we keep it, to its mandate - steady prices (which means ~0 inflation). Prison for violation.

Government pension reform. It should be more profitable to work in the private sector anyway.

End.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 1/5/2013 3:45:45 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 3:53:33 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie



Congressional pay - cut to minimum wage x 8hr x 365. You're not supposed to go there to get so well paid and have such perks. Also, no specials, like their own healthcare plan. Make it hurt (prison) if they violate their oath.



They don't get rich on Congressional pay. It's all the insider stuff they become privy to.

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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 4:11:35 PM   
Yachtie


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie



Congressional pay - cut to minimum wage x 8hr x 365. You're not supposed to go there to get so well paid and have such perks. Also, no specials, like their own healthcare plan. Make it hurt (prison) if they violate their oath.



They don't get rich on Congressional pay. It's all the insider stuff they become privy to.


No (not what I said either), but as I did say, it is very well paid. You're right about the insider stuff. And Martha Stewart went jail.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 4:14:59 PM   
DesideriScuri


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

There is the US Federal budget. Tell me.... how would you determine what to cut and why?

Bring our troops home. Close our global bases. End our military wargames. That should take a big bite out of Defense (aim for at least a 30% cut) within 2 years. No increases. No counting "reduced future spending" bullshit.

Depending on what "discretionary" spending entails, that might be hacked to the absolute minimum - 100% cut being the goal.

Both parties have identified massive spending cuts available to Medicare/Aid without reducing benefits. Get 'em done.

Social Security: Not sure if this counts as a cut per se, but divorce it from the rest of the budget process. That payroll tax goes into one line that fund only the SSI expense. No moving it or shifting it or borrowing from it. It's off-limits.

The "mandatory" spending needs to be examined and un-manditorified. lol

The Paul Ryan plan caps budgetary spending at the previous year's revenues. As long as the economy grows, the spending cap rises. At some point, someone is going to have to take the hit. The longer we go without it, the bigger the hit is going to be, and/or the greater the number of people affected is going to rise.

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What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 4:19:27 PM   
Yachtie


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Social Security: Not sure if this counts as a cut per se, but divorce it from the rest of the budget process. That payroll tax goes into one line that fund only the SSI expense. No moving it or shifting it or borrowing from it. It's off-limits.



Yeah, the Gore Lock Box.



Now back to your regularly scheduled ...

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 4:24:31 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		HERE is a link that gives a bit more information.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 4:35:45 PM   
MasterG2kTR


Posts: 6677
Joined: 8/7/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		Like several already said....cut the military budget...I'm all for that. I think the military budget is severely bloated. We spend more than the next 10 nations combined.

However there is a huge problem with cutting the military budget. As soon as you do, unemployment will spike to levels worse than we have seen in recent years. A large portion of the jobs in this country are related to military equipment production. Most of the products made by those companies have little to no civilian applications or at least not enough demand to make it profitable.

So then we spiral right back into recession because you take a lot of cash flow out of the economy.

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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 4:39:33 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		FR
No cuts to SS, medicare or medicaid. Cease limiting the payroll tax to incomes under roughly $100k.

Cut defence spending by at least 50%. We'd probably need some sort of CCC analog to absorb the unemployed from this but if used to repair and build infrastructure it would greatly expand the economy.

Eliminate all tax subsidies on the old energy industry and enforce all existing financial industry regulations.

Increase taxes in a progressive manner.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 4:58:04 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		What we need is the rest of the western world to pay their fair share of their defense and we can get rid of our deficit overnight.

We spend 4.7 percent of our GDP for defense and this does not include what we are giving in aid to other countries like Iraq and Israel.

Below is a list of a few countries that could pay their fair share in defense of their way of life. If they all just added 1 percent each we could cut ours in half and rebuild our infrastructure just as they have and have money left over for universal health care.

France 2.2 %
Canada 1.4%
Germany 1.8%
Spain 1%
UK 2.6%

We don’t need to cut anything…in fact we could raise our standard of living if our so called allies would just pay their fair share.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/5/2013 5:01:54 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 5:05:47 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		One percent each would not be too much to bare... Then we could bring home all our troops that you all seem to hate so much and you could staff our bases with your troops paid by your increased defense budgets...now doesn't that sound nice?

You would be totally in control of your own defense with no interference from us war mongering cowboys.


We could even give you our missiles to maintain...Hell you could have all our weapons of mass destruction to play with.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/5/2013 5:07:37 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 5:11:32 PM   
crazyml


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Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

What we need is the rest of the western world to pay their fair share of their defense and we can get rid of our deficit overnight.

We spend 4.7 percent of our GDP for defense and this does not include what we are giving in aid to other countries like Iraq and Israel.

Below is a list of a few countries that could pay their fair share in defense of their way of life. If they all just added 1 percent each we could cut ours in half and rebuild our infrastructure just as they have and have money left over for universal health care.

France 2.2 %
Canada 1.4%
Germany 1.8%
Spain 1%
UK 2.6%

We don’t need to cut anything…in fact we could raise our standard of living if our so called allies would just pay their fair share.

Butch


WTF???

You want other countries to subsidise your military machine?

<boggles>


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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 5:17:05 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		No take over your own defense...let us get out of Europe...Now be honest. If tomorrow we took ALL of our military men and equipment out of Europe...This means aircraft...missiles...radars....troops....tanks...who knows what else you think your defense budgets would only go up 1 percent?

Would you be able to pay your healthcare without us protecting you? Would you have been able to rebuild from WWII without our aid and defense?

I think not… now open your damn wallets like us and pay for your own damn defense of your way of life.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to crazyml)
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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 5:22:44 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		DesideriScuri and Domken are right...we have bankrupted ourselves for your benefit time to cut our defense...I could give a rats ass if you don't increase your defense budgets...just live with the results and don't expect us to save your asses a third time in the last hundred years.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 5:32:03 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Uk spends 6 % of its GDP on Defense...44 billion...
Military spending will reach $22.3 billion in 2010-2011
there were 338 US army personel in the UK in 2012, in canada there were 8.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2012/oct/23/us-military-deployments-overseas

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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 5:43:50 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		While it is most helpful to start actual cutting the budget, that is not were we should start.


(1) You can start by amending titles 7, 20, 21, 24, 29 and 42 of the U.S. Code and the underlying laws by Striking "Shall" and Inserting "May". That right there converts all mandatory spending into discretionary spending and makes Congress accountable for that spending.

(2) You can continue by amending title 31 of the U.S. Code and the underlying laws by Striking "including inflation,", "program caseloads,", and "and pay increases".

(3) You can continue by amending title 2, section 907 of the U.S. Code by Striking "to offset pay absorption and for pay annualization as specified in paragraph (4)," and "for inflation as specified in paragraph (5), and to account for changes required by law in the level of agency payments for personnel benefits other than pay" from section 907(c)(1), Striking subsections 907(c)(4) and 907(c)(5) and Striking the "," after "adjusted sequentially and cumulatively for expiring housing contracts as specified in paragraph (2)" Insterting "and" in its place. This fixed baseline budgeting and requires Congress to authorize any increase in pay or benefits for federal employees.

(4) Then and ONLY then should you think about cutting spending and my first chopping blocks would be to repeal the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008,  American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, The Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 and the Aviation and Transportation Security Act.

(5) Abolish the Transportation and Security Administration once the Aviation and Transportation Security Act is repealed and terminate the employement of the employees of the TSA. Saves $8.1 billion dollars per year and elimiantes 58,400 federal employees.

(6) Amend the U.S. Code to Strike "Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives" and Insterting "Federal Bureau of Investigation" and Striking "Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives" and Insterting "Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation" then abolish the BATF and terminate the employment of the employees of the BATF. Saves $1.12 billion dollars per year and elimiantes 4,600 federal employees.

(7) Amend the U.S. Code to Trike "Drug Enforcement Agency" and Instert "Federal Bureau of Investigation" and Striking "Administrator of the Drug Enforcement Agency" and Insterting "Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation" then abolish the DEA and terminate the employment of the employees of the DEA. Saves $2.415 billion dollars annually and eliminates 10,800 federal employees.

(8) Amend the Homeland Security Act of 2002 to transfer the U.S. Customs and Border Protection, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, National Protection and Programs Directorate, FEMA, US-CERT, Office of Cybersecurity and Communications, National Protection and Programs Directorate, Office of Operations Coordination Office of Infrastructure Protection and the  U.S. Coast Guard to the Department of Defense and exempt these agencies from the Posse Comitatus Act, transfer the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center to the Department of Justice, transfer the Science & Technology Directorate to the Department of Economic Development and make the U.S. Secret Service an independent agency. Amend the act by Striking "Department of Homeland Security" and Inserting "Homeland Security Agency" in its place.

(9) Amend the U.S. Code by Striking "Department of Commerce" and Insterting "Department of Economic Development", Striking "Secretary of Commerce" and Inserting "Secretary of Economic Development", Striking "Department of Labor" and and Insterting "Department of Economic Development", Striking "Secretary of Labor" and Inserting "Secretary of Economic Development", Striking "Department of Energy" and and Insterting "Department of Economic Development" and Striking "Secretary of Energy" and Inserting "Secretary of Economic Development". Issue an Executive order or legislative act changing the name of the Department of Commerce to the Department of Economic Development and abolishing the Department of Labor and Energy.

(10) Amend the U.S. Code by Striking "Health and Human Services" and Insterting "Interior", Striking "Housing and Urban Development" and Insterting "Interior", Striking "Department of Agriculture" and Insterting "Department of the Economic Development" and Striking "Secretary of Agriculture" and Inserting "Secretary of Economic Development". Issue an Executive order or legislative act abolishing the Departments of Agriculture Health and Human Services, Housing and Urban Development.

(11) Enact H.R. 1848 the One Percent Spending Reduction Act to eliminate the federal deficit in 8 years.
(12) Enact legislation to implement the Gso recommendations in regards to government waste and duplication. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11318sp.pdf

(13) Enact legislation repealing title 26 2 years after enactment to force Congress to implement much needed tax reform


After doing the above THEN and ONLY then should  go line by line and start eliminating things. It will be much easier after that.


_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 6:05:16 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:


"Department of Homeland Security" and Inserting "Homeland Security Agency" in its place.



But wouldn't "Homeland Security Agency" be the FBI?

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 1/5/2013 6:06:22 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 6:09:43 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2034rank.html

I could go on and on

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 6:12:31 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		yeah and your figures are five to 8 years out of date...
I took my figures directly from the UK and canada govmnts.
Plus the guardian, in 2012...
No need to go on.... im worried about your BP

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\(•_•)
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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 6:19:21 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Funny the world bank figures say 2012.. is that out of date?...And match the 2005 figures meaning there has been little change over the years.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 20
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