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RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 6:23:42 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		How about these...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

http://www.newstatesman.com/united-kingdom-military-expenditure-gdp

Butch


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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 6:25:59 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		THIS is interesting reading as well.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 6:28:42 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Some more...another way of looking at our discussion...a visual way.



_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 6:33:31 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:


"Department of Homeland Security" and Inserting "Homeland Security Agency" in its place.



But wouldn't "Homeland Security Agency" be the FBI?


Defense.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 6:35:27 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

we have bankrupted ourselves for your benefit

This makes us sound very noble and self-sacrificing, and I wonder if that's the whole story. Other factors that may have been at work, I suspect, were the desire to cement our superpower status, rivalry with the USSR, and the search for markets and revenue to sustain what Eisenhower (no bleeding heart) called "the military-industrial complex."

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 6:44:36 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		LOL Im taking figures from the actual countries figures, are you saying they are wrong?
how bout the fact that the US forces/tanks/ etc etc, arent based where you thought they were... nah never mind, Im not going to be "responsible" for another sad conniption today.


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 7:01:47 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		Well, Aylee, how 'bout you get back to us after you've taken some time to think about what you'd do. lmao!!!

Great post!!

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What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 7:11:36 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

we have bankrupted ourselves for your benefit

This makes us sound very noble and self-sacrificing, and I wonder if that's the whole story. Other factors that may have been at work, I suspect, were the desire to cement our superpower status, rivalry with the USSR, and the search for markets and revenue to sustain what Eisenhower (no bleeding heart) called "the military-industrial complex."


I think it was Rush last week that brought up something that I hadn't considered: one reason we have our bases in Germany and Japan is for their protection after the treaties signed ending WWII. If their ability to form and keep military the size necessary to protect them, they are vulnerable and dependent on other countries.

Hell, if we backed out of the UN and NATO, what do you think would end up happening?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 7:16:35 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Well, Aylee, how 'bout you get back to us after you've taken some time to think about what you'd do. lmao!!!

Great post!!


I am sorry.  I will try and put more thought into this. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 7:22:21 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

rivalry with the USSR,



There was no rivalry with the USSR... there was defense of Europe. The minute Russia gave up and took down the wall and allowed reunification and stopped its expansive policies we tried our best to make friends and forgive. To this day we invest in Russia even with Putin.

We have troops in 150 different countries throughout the world in defense of freedom...and our and Europe's economic investments. There is no doubt however at the evidence I have presented that the rest of the so called free world are free loaders bitching at us while we defend them all over the world while they spend their money on developing their infrastructure and entitlements.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 7:28:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes I am bitching but with reason. It is not personal with any European member here after all you have no direct input into your governments defense spending many are not even aware of how little they spend.

I can't blame the governments either.. France will for instance say if the UK is not going to put out to NATO neither will we the US will make up the difference.

And that was OK when we could afford it...no bitching then... we just cannot afford it any longer...we need help from you now.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/5/2013 7:34:51 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 7:41:29 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Hell, if we backed out of the UN and NATO, what do you think would end up happening?


Save even more money?


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: US federal budget - 1/5/2013 10:14:28 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Social Security: Not sure if this counts as a cut per se, but divorce it from the rest of the budget process. That payroll tax goes into one line that fund only the SSI expense. No moving it or shifting it or borrowing from it. It's off-limits.


We agree 100% on this issue.
Social Security should not be in this chart, on the table or part of the damn discussion.

Don't look at/bother/fool with Social Security.
No crazy crap about raising the age, so the average joe can drop dead attempting to work until they are 70 or 80.


< Message edited by Marini -- 1/5/2013 10:26:57 PM >

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As always, To EACH their Own.
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Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: US federal budget - 1/6/2013 1:41:44 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No take over your own defense...let us get out of Europe...Now be honest. If tomorrow we took ALL of our military men and equipment out of Europe...This means aircraft...missiles...radars....troops....tanks...who knows what else you think your defense budgets would only go up 1 percent?

Would you be able to pay your healthcare without us protecting you? Would you have been able to rebuild from WWII without our aid and defense?

I think not… now open your damn wallets like us and pay for your own damn defense of your way of life.

Butch



Oh oh... I see the problem now.

The problem is that you do not appear to have the faintest idea what you're talking about!

- The USA can feel free to cut its spending, and leave the rest of us to "fill in" any <giant finger quotes>gap</giant finger quotes> that is left.

Now... <pats lap> C'mere.... and sit down... let me tell you something about Foreign Policy that is clearly going to come as a big old surprise to you...

America's involvement in Europe was not motivated by a desire to help Europe, it was motivated by a desire to help America. You see... and I can repeat this for you a couple of times if you're struggling... that's how foreign policy works!

You do shit that's in your interests!

I hope that clears up the fucking nonsense that Europe owes the USA a single fucking dime

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: US federal budget - 1/6/2013 4:55:53 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yep you told me with your usual complete analysis of the issue backed by history and viable links. I yield to your overwhelming intelligence and insight.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: US federal budget - 1/6/2013 5:48:46 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
quote:

Social Security: Not sure if this counts as a cut per se, but divorce it from the rest of the budget process. That payroll tax goes into one line that fund only the SSI expense. No moving it or shifting it or borrowing from it. It's off-limits.

We agree 100% on this issue.
Social Security should not be in this chart, on the table or part of the damn discussion.
Don't look at/bother/fool with Social Security.
No crazy crap about raising the age, so the average joe can drop dead attempting to work until they are 70 or 80.


This does need to be included, as it is Federal budgetary spending. However, I think it should have it's own chart or graph. Butch had a great link in Post #7. It takes you to a CBO page that shows pie charts for spending and one for revenues. CBO could have done a better job and broken everything down into the same categories, but you play the cards you are dealt. It shows Social Security as it's own slice in spending, but "Social Insurance Taxes" as a slice in revenues. The description for the revenue slice is:
    quote:

    Consists of payroll taxes that fund social insurance programs, primarily
    Social Security and Medicare’s Hospital Insurance program


Looking at the slices, SSI spending is $725B and the revenue slice is $819B. You can't see if revenues specific to SSI cover or even come close to SSI spending. This lumping everything into the same category is bullshit as it allows for accounting BS.

It would probably take forever to compile and forever to go through, but I'd love to see a specific spending list and where the funds come from, or were supposed to come from.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: US federal budget - 1/6/2013 6:09:47 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I know an easy way to balance the budget in two steps.

Step one: Tax every gun owner $25 per gun per year

Step Two: Tax anti second amendment proponents $100 every time they say something about getting rid of the second amendment

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: US federal budget - 1/6/2013 7:49:20 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		How about a firm absolute balanced budget with a mandatory debit reduction payment. If congress cannot agree on a budget use the last balanced budget , if there is one, or use the existing agreement for budget reduction.

Just think...with a law requiring a balanced budget and a mandatory debit reduction payment then the IRS could add, with good conscience, a voluntary contribution to pay down our national debit. I would give a few bucks every year wouldn't you...If you knew it meant something.

Keep the war powers resolution but add a requirement for funding to be in place by an estimated tax increase to pay for it,BEFORE commencement of hostilities, and adjusted annually by vote of congress.

All our budget troubles will be over AND we will be in a lot fewer wars.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/6/2013 8:16:56 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: US federal budget - 1/6/2013 8:55:19 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How about a firm absolute balanced budget with a mandatory debit reduction payment. If congress cannot agree on a budget use the last balanced budget , if there is one, or use the existing agreement for budget reduction.

Just think...with a law requiring a balanced budget and a mandatory debit reduction payment then the IRS could add, with good conscience, a voluntary contribution to pay down our national debit. I would give a few bucks every year wouldn't you...If you knew it meant something.

Keep the war powers resolution but add a requirement for funding to be in place by an estimated tax increase to pay for it,BEFORE commencement of hostilities, and adjusted annually by vote of congress.

All our budget troubles will be over AND we will be in a lot fewer wars.

Butch

Without the ability to deficit spend the US would have never produced the war material that won WW2 and ended the Great Depression. Without deficit spending we would find ourselves in a fiscal trap during every recession, tax revenue goes down so the federal government would have to shrink putting more people out of work which would make the recession worse.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: US federal budget - 1/6/2013 8:59:42 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Keep the war powers resolution but add a requirement for funding to be in place by an estimated tax increase to pay for it,BEFORE commencement of hostilities, and adjusted annually by vote of congress.
All our budget troubles will be over AND we will be in a lot fewer wars.
Butch


So, you're saying the President will have to wait for Congress to fund military action before the President can order military action that doesn't require Congressional approval to start? How the fuck does that work? lol

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 40
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