JeffBC
Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chadra
I should have tried to make it clear that I do differentiate between the concepts of coercion and influence/manipulation. Now, we could start a whole new thread trying to draw the lines regarding where one stops and the other starts - and that might be an interesting conversation - but I'm thinking it may be beyond the scope of this thread.
Actually... and perhaps Orion will clarify his original intent but... I think that might be exactly the scope of this thread :)
For the record, though, if threat is countered to explicit non-consent, I believe we've moved well beyond any form of consent. This, to me, is not at all the same thing as a choice perceived as so negative that it is not considered. I did not mean the "choice" to be part of a coercion.
I would certainly agree with this. As much as the end outcome might be the same in terms of "influence on her choice", it'd be disingenous of me to suggest that there was no difference between:
A) Threatening to beat as a response to "explicit non-consent"
B) Making a nice happy love nest that any show of disobedience would permanently disrupt.
No reasonable person would consider those two things even remotely the same except at some abstract conceptual level. That, I would hope, is what separates me from a monster -- and a criminal. My point still remains though. No matter how benign the methods, my ability to influence her would allow me to do things that would ultimately be harmful to her... much like in Nueva's story. So my own judgement and ethics replaced the pro-forma head-nod. Now the measuring stick is something more like, "that which produces the best net results in our marriage -- in my judgement" Like LittleWonder and amira she has just stopped judging whether the things I want to do/change/create etc. are right & wrong, good & bad. Although obviously, at some point of sufficient harm self-preservation would likely kick in and that judgement process would start again. Although as a thought exercise it's interesting to ponder where that point might be 10 years from now. Then again, it'll only ever be a thought experiment because "harming Carol" isn't exactly at the top of my list of things to do.
As a humorous aside, much as option (b) isn't very "dark and dangerous" it sure as hell is effective in terms of getting Carol to obey :)
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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd
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RE: Influence of someone's choice and consent - 
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