RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4"x worse than U.S.

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RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:05:21 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If you read the link it is all violent crime in America what would be the difference in all violent crime in the UK

Butch

Butch, in the UK assault can be for as little as a push or even laying a hand on someone. Even running towards a police officer shouting with a raised fist is classed as assaulting the police, no contact needs to be made.

In the UK terrorist attacks are classed as murder, I am under the impression they would not be included in US figures. You will also spot a leap in UK murder figures after the Shipman inquiry, although carried out over three decades, all his murders were counted as being in one year.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 41

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:06:08 PM

Lucylastic

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Thats one of the reasons the US national crime survey figures are unreliable as all get out

Also the nationmaster only counts female, not male, and as Tazz pointed out not children

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Post #: 42

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:31:34 PM

Rule

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FR

Whereas I am opposed to any gun control, I also am opposed to having guns as a deterrent of crime. In fact I am opposed to any deterrence of crime.

This is what was promised humanity:

quote:

Blessed are the meek:
for they shall inherit the earth.

Matthew 5:5

Not criminals, not people who assault other people in whatever way, but the meek will inherit the Earth..

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(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 43

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:31:47 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If you read the link it is all violent crime in America what would be the difference in all violent crime in the UK

Butch

Butch, in the UK assault can be for as little as a push or even laying a hand on someone. Even running towards a police officer shouting with a raised fist is classed as assaulting the police, no contact needs to be made.

In the UK terrorist attacks are classed as murder, I am under the impression they would not be included in US figures. You will also spot a leap in UK murder figures after the Shipman inquiry, although carried out over three decades, all his murders were counted as being in one year.

actually the current administration refuses to classify anything as terroist attacks so you are right and wrong at the same time.
if they admited that things like Fort Hood were terorist attacks they wouldn't count as crimes but they don't admit that. Government incompetance stuck it too you on this one. Not your fault, reasonable assumtion on your part.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 1/13/2013 4:44:07 PM >

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Post #: 44

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:35:07 PM

Lucylastic

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you mean they dont count as murders?? or just the clarification?

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Post #: 45

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:41:59 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

you mean they dont count as murders?? or just the clarification?

Fort Hood for example counts not as a terrorist attack but as a workplace incident. I would think, like politesub, that terrorist attacks would count here under the same classification as those killed or injured in a war. However with the administrations obsesion with pretending there is no terrorism it becomes a moot point. Hope I addressed the point you were looking for if not I am willing to try again

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Post #: 46

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:43:35 PM

Lucylastic

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would they be counted as murders in crime statistics.
even workplace murders are classed as murders
As we are talking about crime statistics... not Obama

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Post #: 47

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:46:04 PM

BamaD

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I reread my previous post, the one you are asking about saw something that could have been confusing and hopefully made it clearer sorry.

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Post #: 48

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:49:28 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

would they be counted as murders in crime statistics.
even workplace murders are classed as murders
As we are talking about crime statistics... not Obama

I was not trying to make it about Obama merely explaining why terrorist attacks would show up under normal crime statistics at this time where most likely they would not under a different administration for example 9/11.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 49

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:52:54 PM

kdsub

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I was just trying to find a statistic to compare to in Lucy's links and couldn't find one. It was just curiosity to me I am not defending any one nation over the other. I would say both have way too much violent crime and guns just make ours more deadly...But not more... that is what I believe by statistics I’ve researched in the past anyway.

Butch

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Post #: 50

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:54:55 PM

Politesub53

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Well Butch, you cant be more dealy than dead, and in that, you have us beaten by a country mile.

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Post #: 51

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 4:55:59 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

would they be counted as murders in crime statistics.
even workplace murders are classed as murders
As we are talking about crime statistics... not Obama

Yes workplace incidents show up as murders where a terrorist attack might not. Thus an attack which should be counted as a terrorist attack (act of war) is reflected as a case of someone "going postal" and does count as a crime.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 52

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 5:00:36 PM

kdsub

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Gota agree there...people react to violence and fear the same the world over... Only those who are blind to common sense think guns make no difference in deaths during violent crimes or the result of anger and greed. You may have even more assaults, for instance, per 100,000 but without guns less die... simple and undeniable except by fanatics.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Post #: 53

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 5:04:49 PM

tazzygirl

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I proved that the definitions are not the same, therefore the numbers are not the same. Including an act in one countries reporting that is not included in another country makes the comparisons skewed.

For example....

List of countries by intentional homicide rate per year per 100,000 inhabitants. The reliability of underlying national murder rate data may vary.[1] The legal definition of "intentional homicide" differs among countries. Intentional homicide may or may not include infanticide, assisted suicide or euthanasia.

http://www.assistedsuicide.org/suicide_laws.html

Intentional Homicides....

US... 4.8
UK....1.2
Sweden.. 1.0

(per 100,000 - 2010)

We are assuming they are counting the same exact deaths in both their totals.

Burglary rates 2010 per 100,000

US ... 695.9
UK ... 946.1
Sweden ... 988.5

Please note that when using the figures, any cross-national comparisons should be conducted with caution because of the differences that exist between the legal definitions of offences in countries, or the different methods of offence counting and recording.

This.. again... is assuming all the definitions, therefore, all the same types of thefts/break ins, ect, are reported exactly the same.

Assault... 2010

UK... 664.4
US... 250.9
Sweden... 936.6

And we already know those are not reported the same.

Please note that when using the figures, any cross-national comparisons should be conducted with caution because of the differences that exist between the legal definitions of offences in countries, or the different methods of offence counting and recording.

Sexual Offences against Children - 2009 (2010 data not available on this pdf)

UK... 31.8
US... surprise... no figure given
Sweden... 70.6

However, a figure from 2003 can be found here....

One U.S. governmental source counts 78,188 child victims of sexual abuse in 2003. That’s a
rate of 1.2 per 1,000 American children.

http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/factsheet/pdf/CSA-FS20.pdf

that makes it... 120 per 100,000

No wonder why they dont want it known.

Please note that when using the figures, any cross-national comparisons should be conducted with caution because of the differences that exist between the legal definitions of offences in countries, or the different methods of offence counting and recording.

Robbery - 2010

US ... 115.3
UK.... 137.9
Sweden... 98.3

Please note that when using the figures, any cross-national comparisons should be conducted with caution because of the differences that exist between the legal definitions of offences in countries, or the different methods of offence counting and recording.

All the above came from the following....

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/statistics/crime.html

All of these come with the bolded warning.

These figures are helpful when trending a country and how well its doing.... it doesnt mean jack when comparing it to other countries.

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Post #: 54

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 5:10:11 PM

kdsub

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Thanks tazzy but I already agreed with your earlier post on the subject that is why I didn't post anymore until politesub commented on my reasoning.

But I think it is safe to say the UK has just as big a problem with criminal assault and crimes like burglary as we have... Even Canada as far as that goes...I think we even had a thread on the reasons why once.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/13/2013 5:12:04 PM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 55

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 5:16:45 PM

tazzygirl

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Assault... 2010

UK... 664.4
US... 250.9
Sweden... 936.6

Those numbers?

16. Sweden is touted by the Foundation as a model jurisdiction. However, a close analysis of the Swedish model reveals that the so-called "ban" on physical punishment is a civil or family law measure, of a declaratory nature, that bears no criminal sanction. Moreover, this is in the context of Sweden’s definition of assault that requires the infliction of bodily injury or pain of more than a temporary duration. Spanking is not assault under Swedish criminal law and was not intended to be.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/381/lega/15ap-e.htm

Yet here, a parent can and will be charged with assault for spanking a child.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 56

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 5:32:38 PM

Lucylastic

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according to this table from 2010

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl22.xls

aggravated assault is counted as such, the figures for all states are as follows
Total AggAss1..... Firearms.....Knives or cutting instruments.....Other weapons .... Personalweapons.....Agencycount ........Population
670,443.................137,857...............127,507....................... 221,620.................. 183,457 ..................13,896.......... 266,040,636
1 The number of aggravated assaults from agencies that submitted 12 months of data in 2010 for which breakdowns by type of weapon were included.

NOw thats JUST aggravated assault, with a weapon, what about simple assault?
fixed for formatting issues

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 1/13/2013 5:39:22 PM >

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Post #: 57

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 5:43:56 PM

jlf1961

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So, I guess what everyone is saying is that we need to be smuggling assault rifles to the UK?

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Post #: 58

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 5:46:36 PM

tazzygirl

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My point exactly, Lucy. Its not included.

Violent Crime

Download Printable Document

Definition
In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 59

RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/13/2013 5:53:34 PM

Lucylastic

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just backing you up darlin:)

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( (> A NASTY
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Duchess Of Dissent
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(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 60

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