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RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 6:41:01 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		The crime stats are coming down too., and NO body denied they were not high either.

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 6:56:36 AM   
Powergamz1


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Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		The many posts in this thead claiming 'it all depends on how you define violent crime' are purely denial.

Once adjusted for reality (like the fact that many victims of domestic violence *do* get beaten more than the few times a year max reporting limit), the BHO numbers are artificially low, which is pretty typical of crime stats anywhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The crime stats are coming down too., and NO body denied they were not high either.



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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 7:07:18 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Thats your opinion...
And as you say, the figures do not include many many aspects... but the OP and the other claims of violent crime being 3-4 times worse than UK (us or otherwise) are FALSE by just the figures, we can guestimate they are false, under reported etc till the cows come home, it still doesnt make the claims any truer when ALL we have are figures from the reporting agency.
The bull given on nationmaster, the daily fail etc are cherry picking their stats. Far MORE than the Home office or FBI


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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 7:15:40 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		As far as "denial" goes, isn't the whole point of the gun ban to reduce the murder rate, rather than violent crime in general?

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 7:20:24 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Of course, the rest of it has been obfuscation in all the threads dealing with gun control

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 7:26:48 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

The many posts in this thead claiming 'it all depends on how you define violent crime' are purely denial.

Once adjusted for reality (like the fact that many victims of domestic violence *do* get beaten more than the few times a year max reporting limit), the BHO numbers are artificially low, which is pretty typical of crime stats anywhere.



Rubbish. The simple fact is you can't compare statistics because they aren't like for like and a crime in one country would not be seen as a crime in another. Sweden defines rape so widely it incorporates what many people in other countries (including women) would see as a bad sexual experience. Dutch drug laws see many drug related incidents as health issues, where in Britain they would be seen as an assault against the person. The whole statistic issue is a minefield for anyone seeking the truth.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 1/16/2013 7:27:44 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 9:43:57 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So you are saying that you cannot post a per 100,00 violent crime link for the UK


Okay, look. I just did the math based on what Lucy posted. I added up the things that the FBI would consider a "violent crime" (based on what I think counts as homicide and aggravated assault - not sure if death by bad/drunk driving counts as homicide, but I included them - and assuming that rape and robbery are defined the same), for a total of 162,784 crimes (ETA: in the latest figures). England and Wales apparently have a population of 54.1 million, for a total of 300.9 violent crimes per 100,000 people, by US standards.

< Message edited by graceadieu -- 1/16/2013 9:44:45 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 9:54:45 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
There has been a discussion recently to allow convenience stores to sell, here in ontario at least.
It was a big shock to me when I moved here that you couldnt find booze or liquor in supermarkets and corner stores

Being born in Western Canada, I am just so used to making a special trip to the liquor store if you want booze.. for me its a deterent to buying the stuff (ok, I sometimes do like my Bristol Cream but I dont make a booze run for it lol), that and in BC at least, its very highly taxed and giving the govt even more money voluntarily, that in itself puts me off!

But here in the US, the grocery stores carry booze and I simply dont think in those terms, of buying it and I never have in the few years of being down here.. its just such a foreign thought to me.. buying booze and my groceries together??? ..perish the thought!


In Maryland (at least anywhere I've lived), they can't sell alcohol at the grocery store either. Since I grew up here, I'm always surprised when I see it in other states.

I remember going to Tennessee and seeing people buy booze and ammo at a convenience store, and then sitting in their cars drinking a beer before driving off! I guess they were pre-gaming before going hunting, lol.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 11:37:11 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

The many posts in this thead claiming 'it all depends on how you define violent crime' are purely denial.




This is nonsense. I am unsure how you get your opinion but it isnt from any factual reports.

If you lived in the UK you would know that the claim of a high volume of violent crime is a myth.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 11:44:40 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Lets face reality.

The overly civilized British have pretty much reached the point of not being violent, except when it comes to dealing with Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland.

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 11:49:49 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lets face reality.

The overly civilized British have pretty much reached the point of not being violent, except when it comes to dealing with Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland.


YAWN! More protestants and government officers have been murdered in Northern Ireland than Catholics. Even when violence was at its worst, there were twice as many murders in Chicago alone than Northern Ireland.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 12:55:53 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lets face reality.

The overly civilized British have pretty much reached the point of not being violent, except when it comes to dealing with Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland.



Grow up. Your post is utter nonsense and an attempt to derail the thread.

The thread itself is an attempt to take the heat off of gun crime threads.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 1:03:54 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lets face reality.

The overly civilized British have pretty much reached the point of not being violent, except when it comes to dealing with Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland.



Grow up. Your post is utter nonsense and an attempt to derail the thread.

The thread itself is an attempt to take the heat off of gun crime threads.



Actually I was being sarcastic.

HOwever, to be honest, I cant see how the UK could come in as more violent than the US.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 3:49:41 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lets face reality.

The overly civilized British have pretty much reached the point of not being violent, except when it comes to dealing with Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland.



Grow up. Your post is utter nonsense and an attempt to derail the thread.

The thread itself is an attempt to take the heat off of gun crime threads.



Actually I was being sarcastic.

HOwever, to be honest, I cant see how the UK could come in as more violent than the US.


Apologies then, I thought your post was serious.

You make a valid point here, I am unsure how anyone can possibly think we have much more violence but less murders. Even when guns were more common the UK only had a murder rate similar to now.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 6:59:44 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Thats your opinion...
And as you say, the figures do not include many many aspects... but the OP and the other claims of violent crime being 3-4 times worse than UK (us or otherwise) are FALSE by just the figures, we can guestimate they are false, under reported etc till the cows come home, it still doesnt make the claims any truer when ALL we have are figures from the reporting agency.
The bull given on nationmaster, the daily fail etc are cherry picking their stats. Far MORE than the Home office or FBI




well I guess you cant believe english news sources.








http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=usdoj%20criminal%20justice%20us%20versus%20england%20&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbjs.ojp.usdoj.gov%2Fcontent%2Fpub%2Fpdf%2Fcnscj.pdf&ei=7WP3UKuMOpO30QH24ICwBA&usg=AFQjCNEknQURR29Ea7WZCoTXfoeKKDCgCg&cad=rja


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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 7:01:29 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I dont trust YOUR sources, ever
PS agin with the bullshit correlation between comparable.Until they ALL use the same comparisons, the figures are skewed
DUH

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 1/16/2013 7:05:52 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 7:17:40 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

As far as "denial" goes, isn't the whole point of the gun ban to reduce the murder rate, rather than violent crime in general?

If you affect one you affect both.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 7:17:51 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53



Apologies then, I thought your post was serious.

You make a valid point here, I am unsure how anyone can possibly think we have much more violence but less murders. Even when guns were more common the UK only had a murder rate similar to now.


Sarcasm does not translate as well in the printed medium.

However, having long time friends, even a few very distant relatives on both sides of the issues in Northern Ireland, the violence in that region has gone on for so long that I honestly doubt that anyone knows what the hell they are fighting for.

My personal feeling is that when the rest of Ireland was given independence, Northern Ireland should have been part of the package, but that comes from having catholic relatives in Northern Ireland that identify themselves as Irish first.

In truth the problems of the Emerald Isle is a few hundred years old, and will not be solved in any fashion that even remotely resembles logic, but again that is my opinion.

I am also in favor of Wales and Scotland being independent or in the very least, the Stuarts being put back on the throne of the United Kingdom, or better yet, the family of the man that was the basis for the legendary King Arthur, in the fight against the Saxons.

Realistically, the violence in the UK is far less than the United States, and to even try to compare the two is a practice that is futile at best, impossible in fact.

And yes, there are some sarcastic statements in the above.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 7:20:20 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
There has been a discussion recently to allow convenience stores to sell, here in ontario at least.
It was a big shock to me when I moved here that you couldnt find booze or liquor in supermarkets and corner stores

Being born in Western Canada, I am just so used to making a special trip to the liquor store if you want booze.. for me its a deterent to buying the stuff (ok, I sometimes do like my Bristol Cream but I dont make a booze run for it lol), that and in BC at least, its very highly taxed and giving the govt even more money voluntarily, that in itself puts me off!

But here in the US, the grocery stores carry booze and I simply dont think in those terms, of buying it and I never have in the few years of being down here.. its just such a foreign thought to me.. buying booze and my groceries together??? ..perish the thought!


In Maryland (at least anywhere I've lived), they can't sell alcohol at the grocery store either. Since I grew up here, I'm always surprised when I see it in other states.

I remember going to Tennessee and seeing people buy booze and ammo at a convenience store, and then sitting in their cars drinking a beer before driving off! I guess they were pre-gaming before going hunting, lol.

people I would never hunt with can't be trusted with guns cars or beer

(in reply to graceadieu)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Britain Ranks Most violent in Europe and "4&qu... - 1/16/2013 7:25:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lets face reality.

The overly civilized British have pretty much reached the point of not being violent, except when it comes to dealing with Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland.



Grow up. Your post is utter nonsense and an attempt to derail the thread.

The thread itself is an attempt to take the heat off of gun crime threads.



Actually I was being sarcastic.

HOwever, to be honest, I cant see how the UK could come in as more violent than the US.


Apologies then, I thought your post was serious.

You make a valid point here, I am unsure how anyone can possibly think we have much more violence but less murders. Even when guns were more common the UK only had a murder rate similar to now.

So the "benefit" of gun control is, by your words minimal

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 100
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