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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lets face reality.

The overly civilized British have pretty much reached the point of not being violent, except when it comes to dealing with Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland.

Grow up. Your post is utter nonsense and an attempt to derail the thread.

The thread itself is an attempt to take the heat off of gun crime threads.

Actually I was being sarcastic.

HOwever, to be honest, I cant see how the UK could come in as more violent than the US.

Apologies then, I thought your post was serious.

You make a valid point here, I am unsure how anyone can possibly think we have much more violence but less murders. Even when guns were more common the UK only had a murder rate similar to now.

So the "benefit" of gun control is, by your words minimal

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I dont trust YOUR sources, ever
PS agin with the bullshit correlation between comparable.Until they ALL use the same comparisons, the figures are skewed
DUH

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lets face reality.

The overly civilized British have pretty much reached the point of not being violent, except when it comes to dealing with Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland.

Grow up. Your post is utter nonsense and an attempt to derail the thread.

The thread itself is an attempt to take the heat off of gun crime threads.

Actually I was being sarcastic.

HOwever, to be honest, I cant see how the UK could come in as more violent than the US.

Apologies then, I thought your post was serious.

You make a valid point here, I am unsure how anyone can possibly think we have much more violence but less murders. Even when guns were more common the UK only had a murder rate similar to now.

So the "benefit" of gun control is, by your words minimal

Actually, it is not minimal, but you have to look at the criminal element in the UK. Most of them find it distasteful to use a gun in the commission of a crime. Personally I never understood that, but hey, I aint British.

However, gun control, as practiced in the US, meaning the first assault weapon ban and other attempts to control firearms have not had a significant impact on gun related crimes. So short of banning all guns, there is not going to be much of an impact from anything new.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

well I guess you cant believe english news sources.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

So the "benefit" of gun control is, by your words minimal

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I dont trust YOUR sources, ever
PS agin with the bullshit correlation between comparable.Until they ALL use the same comparisons, the figures are skewed
DUH

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53



Apologies then, I thought your post was serious.

You make a valid point here, I am unsure how anyone can possibly think we have much more violence but less murders. Even when guns were more common the UK only had a murder rate similar to now.

Sarcasm does not translate as well in the printed medium.

However, having long time friends, even a few very distant relatives on both sides of the issues in Northern Ireland, the violence in that region has gone on for so long that I honestly doubt that anyone knows what the hell they are fighting for.

My personal feeling is that when the rest of Ireland was given independence, Northern Ireland should have been part of the package, but that comes from having catholic relatives in Northern Ireland that identify themselves as Irish first.

In truth the problems of the Emerald Isle is a few hundred years old, and will not be solved in any fashion that even remotely resembles logic, but again that is my opinion.

I am also in favor of Wales and Scotland being independent or in the very least, the Stuarts being put back on the throne of the United Kingdom, or better yet, the family of the man that was the basis for the legendary King Arthur, in the fight against the Saxons.

Realistically, the violence in the UK is far less than the United States, and to even try to compare the two is a practice that is futile at best, impossible in fact.

And yes, there are some sarcastic statements in the above.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I dont trust YOUR sources, ever
PS agin with the bullshit correlation between comparable.Until they ALL use the same comparisons, the figures are skewed
DUH

Snow White, read his actual link. Dopey probably hasnt even realised it doesnt even address violent cride but is just on about out of date burglary stats.

Yours, Happy.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53


We could get into this but it needs its own thread. Quickly though, just before WW1 the Protestant paramilitaries were arming for civil war. Churchill ended up sending the Royal Navy into Belfast Loch as a deterent. While I get the Catholic argument about the six counties, it overlooks two facts. I wont even touch upon the civil war between Catholics after the Easter Uprising.

1) The Proestant community is also Irish and identifies as such.
2) giving the six counties to the south wouldnt have prevernted a civil war.

Civil war, then as now, would break out from the protestant divide if we had just handed it all over to the south.

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Crime Group 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 % change 10-11 to 11-12
Total Crimes1 418,281 414,214 438,123 417,785 419,257 385,509 377,433 338,124 323,247 314,186 -3

Non-sexual crimes of violence2 16,074 15,187 14,728 13,726 14,099 12,874 12,612 11,228 11,438 9,533 -17
Homicide3 179 149 165 121 159 142 134 106 122 121 -1
Attempted murder & serious assault2,4 7,414 7,365 7,603 7,030 7,345 6,711 6,472 5,621 5,493 4,693 -15
Robbery 4,636 4,161 3,736 3,553 3,578 3,064 2,963 2,496 2,557 2,244 -12
Other 3,845 3,512 3,224 3,022 3,017 2,957 3,043 3,005 3,266 2,475 -24

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own figures.

Oddly enough murder rates havent gone up much since hanging was abolished. I think gun crime has increased slightly since the fall of the USSR, making cheaper weapons easily obtainable on the black market. Not that getting a gun has ever been particularly difficult from my upbringing in inner london. Ill try and find some up to date figures for you regards N.I and Scotland.

edits to add scottish crime figures.

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Crime Group 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 % change 10-11 to 11-12
Total Crimes1 418,281 414,214 438,123 417,785 419,257 385,509 377,433 338,124 323,247 314,186 -3

Non-sexual crimes of violence2 16,074 15,187 14,728 13,726 14,099 12,874 12,612 11,228 11,438 9,533 -17
Homicide3 179 149 165 121 159 142 134 106 122 121 -1
Attempted murder & serious assault2,4 7,414 7,365 7,603 7,030 7,345 6,711 6,472 5,621 5,493 4,693 -15
Robbery 4,636 4,161 3,736 3,553 3,578 3,064 2,963 2,496 2,557 2,244 -12
Other 3,845 3,512 3,224 3,022 3,017 2,957 3,043 3,005 3,266 2,475 -24

if you look at the figure for 2011-2012 and use a figure of 5 million population. You get just under 5millon divided by 10,000 (Rounded up from 9,500)

That gives a total figure of 1 in 500 or 20,000 in 10 million.

I am unsure what they class as violent crime. In england a simple push, spit, harrasment, or even getting caught with an offensive weapon is recorded as violent crime.

I cant find much for Northern Ireland but will keep looking.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have two thoughts on capital punishment, one is that capital punishment does not deter crime, and the second is that there are some people commit crimes that are so cruel and heinous that they do not deserve to live.

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ORIGINAL: StefanandLucinda
Have you ever fairly considered that America is the reason that the common language of the EU is not German today?

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ORIGINAL: StefanandLucinda

Why the constant aggression and supreme condescending attitudes by some of the Brits in here? Repeatedly!! Just because the OP didn't reply constantly to some of the ravenous writings signifies that he is the more gracious one. He's not hiding away as was suggested. He might work and not be able to spend all here day going back and forth at anothers leisure.

The fact is that since your Labour Party took control, violence has skyrocketed. Britian is violent. Just admit it for christ sakes! Look within instead of fingerpointing and comparing around the world.

Poliesub53: You are incorrect. A Prussian by the name of Fredrich Wilhelm von Stueben is mostly why we are not part of the Commonwealth of Nations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Wilhelm_von_Steuben

Have you ever fairly considered that America is the reason that the common language of the EU is not German today?

Britian has collected a tidy Monopoly of around 50+ countries so far with the Commomwealth. Should those 2.1 billion subjects be happy they don't speak French? The French people are "citizens" not subjects and bow to no one. That might mean nothing to you, but it means everything to the French and to many of us in the U.S.A.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations

People in every country are violent. We will continue to rape, steal, and kill until there are no more human beings living on the earth. No country is better than another. We all covet and do whatever we want to get what we think we deserve. Bullying has always been one of the most popular tactics utilized to accomplish that.

lucinda