RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country.

RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (Full Version)

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Rule -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 2:09:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver There are medical reasons but the vast majority of circumcisions are Muslims, Jews and some Christians having it done for religious ritual reasons. There are no religious reasons. Evolution theory does not recognize religious reasons. The only thing that counts in evolution is whether some practice increases reproductive success. If it does, natural selection will ensure that the practice is incorporated into the religion. If it does not, the practice will succumb nearly as fast as a snowflake in Hell.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 2:14:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver There are medical reasons but the vast majority of circumcisions are Muslims, Jews and some Christians having it done for religious ritual reasons. There are no religious reasons. Evolution theory does not recognize religious reasons. The only thing that counts in evolution is whether some practice increases reproductive success. If it does, natural selection will ensure that the practice is incorporated into the religion. If it does not, the practice will succumb nearly as fast as a snowflake in Hell. How will Evolution bring about non-genetic changes? if you chop your arm off, you still have the same DNA you did before. And here I am thinking genome changes led phenome changes.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 2:14:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh Hmm thats unlikely as sexual pleasure isn't suppressed. It was a tribal religious thang as nowadays http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Middle_East.2C_Africa_and_Europe There are recorded comments by Jewish scholars about circumcision being ment to hurt and suppresss sexual pleasure so men don't have sex like beasts in the field. However, removal of the foreskin does cautorize the glans and does reduce sensitivity. Since sex is also psycological pleasure, I am sure any reduction in physical sensitivity is minimal. However, female circumcision, which is directly related to male circumcision historically, certainly does reduce sexual pleasure and is designed to prevent female sexual pleasue and reduce female sexuality to child bearing. Nope, objective research has shown the belief about sensitivity to be unfounded. Agreed over female circumcision but is paralleled with castration and penectomy instead of male circumcision because it destroys sexual drive. It is practiced among fewer tribes.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 2:18:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule There are no religious reasons. Evolution theory does not recognize religious reasons. The only thing that counts in evolution is whether some practice increases reproductive success. If the theory doesn't recognise religion then it should. Religion unifies tribal groups. It increases chances of survival.

Rule -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 2:31:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: Rule There are no religious reasons. Evolution theory does not recognize religious reasons. The only thing that counts in evolution is whether some practice increases reproductive success. If the theory doesn't recognise religion then it should. Religion unifies tribal groups. It increases chances of survival. [sm=goodpost.gif] Well done! Finally someone who gets the nuances of evolution theory: If a practice increases reproductive success, it is incorporated into the religion; in this case it is the increased group identity that increases reproductive success.

Rule -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 2:44:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri How will Evolution bring about non-genetic changes? if you chop your arm off, you still have the same DNA you did before. And here I am thinking genome changes led phenome changes. Evolution does not care whether a change is genetic or non-genetic. Any change whatsoever that affects reproductive success will have natural selection on its tail nearly as fast as the speed of light. And it will either be eliminated and natural selection will ensure that the genome is predisposed against the change if it affects reproductive success in a negative way, or it will be selected for and natural selection will ensure that the genome is predisposed in favor of the change if it affects reproductive success in a positive way.

meatcleaver -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 3:38:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule There are no religious reasons. Evolution theory does not recognize religious reasons. The only thing that counts in evolution is whether some practice increases reproductive success. If it does, natural selection will ensure that the practice is incorporated into the religion. If it does not, the practice will succumb nearly as fast as a snowflake in Hell. Huh? Evolution is a process that is entirely indifferent to religion or anything else we might find culturally important so I don't know how it is supposed to incorporate any religious practice. Come to that, evolution is a process that is indifferent to humans or any other species. Humans will survive or not depending on their ability to sustain life the environment on which they depend because no god is going to intervene on our behalf.

FindommeJinx -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 3:42:48 PM)
Wow are you boys debating still!? I could get impregnated and give birth and the debate would still be going on...

meatcleaver -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 3:44:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: Rule There are no religious reasons. Evolution theory does not recognize religious reasons. The only thing that counts in evolution is whether some practice increases reproductive success. If the theory doesn't recognise religion then it should. Religion unifies tribal groups. It increases chances of survival. [sm=goodpost.gif] Well done! Finally someone who gets the nuances of evolution theory: If a practice increases reproductive success, it is incorporated into the religion; in this case it is the increased group identity that increases reproductive success. What tribal groups has religion sustained? Certainly not N American natives nor S American nor Carribean natives which are all but extinct. The most powerful organised groups in the world are multi-ethnic groups. Humans are a species which are fast destroying its habitat, no religion or any other superstition will save the human species, only knowledge and an ability to sustain its habitat will secure the future of the species. Religion and superstition appears to just be a side affect of consciousness and as long as it doesn't interfer with the ability of the species to survive, it is an affordable side affect.

Politesub53 -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 3:44:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FindommeJinx Wow are you boys debating still!? I could get impregnated and give birth and the debate would still be going on... Shout out if you need any help. [8D]

Rule -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 4:08:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Huh? Shocking, ain't it? Them new ideas, i.e. quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Evolution is a process that is entirely indifferent to religion or anything else we might find culturally important so I don't know how it is supposed to incorporate any religious practice. Come to that, evolution is a process that is indifferent to humans or any other species. Humans will survive or not depending on their ability to sustain life the environment on which they depend because no god is going to intervene on our behalf. It is good that you know so much; in fact: everything! Your world is perfect!

vincentML -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 4:24:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri How will Evolution bring about non-genetic changes? if you chop your arm off, you still have the same DNA you did before. And here I am thinking genome changes led phenome changes. Evolution does not care whether a change is genetic or non-genetic. Any change whatsoever that affects reproductive success will have natural selection on its tail nearly as fast as the speed of light. And it will either be eliminated and natural selection will ensure that the genome is predisposed against the change if it affects reproductive success in a negative way, or it will be selected for and natural selection will ensure that the genome is predisposed in favor of the change if it affects reproductive success in a positive way. Rule! What are your thoughts then on the persistence of homosexuality?

Rule -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 4:25:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver What tribal groups has religion sustained? Certainly not N American natives nor S American nor Carribean natives which are all but extinct. My point exactly: Whenever there is a conflict between savages and a civilized peoples, the savages usually are wiped out; in this case by civilized Christian peoples. (Note that I am not in favor of wiping out savages. In my opinion there are less drastic ways to deal with them.) quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver The most powerful organised groups in the world are multi-ethnic groups. Your supreme wisdom is truly astounding! quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Humans are a species which are fast destroying its habitat, no religion or any other superstition will save the human species, only knowledge and an ability to sustain its habitat will secure the future of the species. You will save us all! quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Religion and superstition appears to just be a side affect of consciousness and as long as it doesn't interfer with the ability of the species to survive, it is an affordable side affect. I nominate you for our new High Priest. What better man to introduce and teach us our new religion!

vincentML -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 4:40:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver France has been bombing Mali which is in turmoil that can be directly linked to western interference in the Arab and muslim world. Will the west ever learn that it is the cause, not the solution of the chaos in the Arab and muslim world? Back to the OP for a moment. Here is an explanation of France's interest in Mali, and why the US is not involved. An interesting article. I am merely presenting the info; I am not defending it. A proper observation might be that colonialism is not dead contrary to premature reports. Anyway, make what you will of the info. Stepping Back as Global Policeman The United States cannot fight a war against radical Islamism and win, and it certainly cannot be the sole actor in a war waged primarily in the Eastern Hemisphere. This is why the French intervention in Mali is particularly interesting. France retains interests in its former colonial empire in Africa, and Mali is at the geographic center of these interests. To the north of Mali is Algeria, where France has significant energy investments; to the east of Mali is Niger, where France has a significant stake in the mining of mineral resources, particularly uranium; and to the south of Mali is Ivory Coast, where France plays a major role in cocoa production. The future of Mali matters to France far more than it matters to the United States. What is most interesting is the absence of the United States in the fight, even if it is providing intelligence and other support, such as mobilizing ground forces from other African countries. The United States is not acting as if this is its fight; it is acting as if this is the fight of an ally, whom it might help in extremis, but not in a time when U.S. assistance is unnecessary. And if the French can't mount an effective operation in Mali, then little help can be given. This changing approach is also evident in Syria, where the United States has systematically avoided anything beyond limited and covert assistance, and Libya, where the United States intervened after the French and British launched an attack they could not sustain. That was, I believe, a turning point, given the unsatisfactory outcome there. Rather than accepting a broad commitment against radical Islamism everywhere, the United States is allowing the burden to shift to powers that have direct interests in these areas. SOURCE: STRATFOR Global Intelligence

Rule -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 4:41:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri How will Evolution bring about non-genetic changes? if you chop your arm off, you still have the same DNA you did before. And here I am thinking genome changes led phenome changes. Evolution does not care whether a change is genetic or non-genetic. Any change whatsoever that affects reproductive success will have natural selection on its tail nearly as fast as the speed of light. And it will either be eliminated and natural selection will ensure that the genome is predisposed against the change if it affects reproductive success in a negative way, or it will be selected for and natural selection will ensure that the genome is predisposed in favor of the change if it affects reproductive success in a positive way. Rule! What are your thoughts then on the persistence of homosexuality? Interesting question, isn't it? I have got the answers, solved that mystery quite a long time ago, but I will not divulge them here. I will divulge a little bit, though. I discern - or rather suspect - two different types of homosexuality: that prevalent among savages and that prevalent among civilized peoples. Of course there will be some frequency distribution of both types of homosexuality in both types of populations. This is one of the aspects of homosexuality that ought to be investigated by anthropologists, psychologists and biologists.

vincentML -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 4:48:55 PM)
quote: Interesting question, isn't it? I have got the answers, solved that mystery quite a long time ago, but I will not divulge them here. I will divulge a little bit, though. I discern - or rather suspect - two different types of homosexuality: that prevalent among savages and that prevalent among civilized peoples. Of course there will be some frequency distribution of both types of homosexuality in both types of populations. This is one of the aspects of homosexuality that ought to be investigated by anthropologists, psychologists and biologists. Neuroscientists and Geneticists too. Anyway, the existence of same sex attraction seems a contradiction to the basic assumption that whatever promotes the gene pool is favoured.

Rule -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 4:58:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Here is an explanation of France's interest in Mali During the first millennium civilization advanced by bringing Christianity to the Europeans. During much of the second half of the second millennium civilization advanced by wiping out the most savage populations in the America's and Australia - and bringing them Christianity. In the late eighteenth century the advancement of civilization was rethought. The new policy is to wipe out the Christian religion and to introduce democracy. (In fact the centuries long sustained policy of decreasing the power of / and wiping out the Christian religion appears to have started fairly soon after the Crusades.) This change in policy means that it no longer is necessary to invade and conquer countries. Instead the natives are stimulated to fight it out among themselves. The USA at the moment has its eye elsewhere.

Rule -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 5:06:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML the existence of same sex attraction seems a contradiction to the basic assumption that whatever promotes the gene pool is favoured. An apparent contradiction. To which I say: quote: There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Hamlet (1.5.166-7), Hamlet to Horatio

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 5:50:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule [sm=goodpost.gif] Well done! Finally someone who gets the nuances of evolution theory: If a practice increases reproductive success, it is incorporated into the religion; in this case it is the increased group identity that increases reproductive success. Thanks! Religion has a very important function, strengthening group identity so increasing group survival and reproduction consequently. Stronger group unity brings down internal conflict, and improves group ability to deal with external threats.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Another Arab-Muslim country bombed by a western country. (1/15/2013 6:28:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri How will Evolution bring about non-genetic changes? if you chop your arm off, you still have the same DNA you did before. And here I am thinking genome changes led phenome changes. Evolution does not care whether a change is genetic or non-genetic. Any change whatsoever that affects reproductive success will have natural selection on its tail nearly as fast as the speed of light. And it will either be eliminated and natural selection will ensure that the genome is predisposed against the change if it affects reproductive success in a negative way, or it will be selected for and natural selection will ensure that the genome is predisposed in favor of the change if it affects reproductive success in a positive way. No behavior will produce a genetic change until that genetic change occurs within the gene pool. Clitoral and labia minoral removal isn't a genetic phenomenon, and surgical removal isn't tech enough yet to cause the genetic mutations that would elicit such mutations naturally. The practice may continue, but that's not evolution.

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