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RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 12:39:20 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with you. No one is dumb enough to give you a reference that's likely to tell you anything negative. References are worth about as much as the paper they're written on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe

Now before anyone jumps to conclusions here.... let me say.. this is only MY OWN personal thoughts on references.... I  think I can give anyone phone numbers to call and check on references... AFTER... my friends and I get our stories straight on what to tell someone who calls to check on either of us. So I really do not take stock in reference numbers. But that's me personally. 

(in reply to BreakMeShakeMe)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 1:05:01 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		I don't take any greater (or lesser) precautions when meeting people from the BDSM scene than I do when meeting people who aren't involved in it.  A first date is a first date, whether we have common kinks or not. 
 
I refuse to live my life in a glass bubble.  I refuse to have my actions dictated by fear and suspicion.  If meeting someone at a public resturant isn't safe enough to keep me alive, after driving my own car there and leaving in my own car afterwards - then very little I do beyond that is going to stop me from winding up dead at their hands.  If I feel the need for "extra" precautions before meeting someone face to face - that's a pretty good indication that my gut instincts are warning me not to meet them at all, and I won't bother setting up a meeting.  I'll already have spent time talking to them online and on the phone; I'll have some sort of feel one way or the other as to whether I want to meet them, and feel safe doing so.  I shouldn't need more than that - after all, I'm 40 years old and have been killing my own "snakes" since I was in my teens, I'd damned well better be able to Continue doing so or I don't particularly Deserve to remain on this crowded little mudball.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 2:22:01 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		heh... I have an odd situation... I live at home with my family still so all my first meetings at least since I told my parents what I was into have been at my house were who ever it is has to meet my parents ( not by my request but theres) I feel if a Dom is willing to do that then they are not only pretty safe but very good people!!!

_____________________________

Leather strap $85.00 on Master card
Wooden paddle $50.00 on Master card
ratten cane $48.00 on Master card

a Master that can use them all Priceless

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 4:52:48 PM   
Shayna


Posts: 205
Joined: 1/16/2005
Status: offline 		I am also of the mind that by the time I meet someone for coffee or a bite to eat, I'm feeling pretty good about the guy. I've narrowed my searching to men that live within an hour or two driving distance and we either meet halfway or they come to my town. In fact there are 2 restaurants near me that I've had many first dates at - lots of memories when I go to one of them with friends! After a few phone conversations, I can tell if he's worth a meal. At 49, my instincts are well honed :)



(in reply to enigmabrat)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 5:36:59 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

The thread on playing at first meet inspired me to ask.

What lengths have you gone to in the past to make someone feel safer meeting you....or what things has the person you are meeting done to make you feel safer?

In all honesty... I don't anymore.

I used to, I would tolerate just about any safety "precaution" requested.  Driver's license, work number, place of employment, background checks, credit checks, next of kin, personal references, etc.  I probably would have stood on my head, while wearing a red clown nose and big oversized red shoes if it made her feel better.

And then one day I realized that's exactly what I was being turned into... a clown.

See the problem is that submissives have been spoon fed all this advice about doing all these things to be safe.  And it never ends, you read any discussion and there's almost a competition to see how extreme the "safety" ideas people can come up with.  Its become open season on the privacy and dignity of dominants.  I say that, because, very rarely do I meet a submissive willing to abide by the same rules.  Ask them for copies of their driver's license, background checks, work number, etc. and you're promptly accused of being a stalker.

Its out of balance.  So I'm putting it back in balance in my own life.

I will no longer hand out personal information except on a quid pro quo basis.  Want a photo copy of my ID... let's see yours.  Want my work number, what's yours?  And most of this I don't ask for anyway because I realize most of it only creates a false sense of security.  Its like the so-called "safe calls", which only really serve to help the police find your corpse; because they do nothing to actually prevent someone harming you and its damn little consolation that they might be caught when you're dead.

I will meet you in a public place, say a nice four or five star resteraunt... I'll even pick up the entire check because that's just me.  You can bring a friend to chaperone, I don't mind.  There will be no play on the first meeting, I keep it strictly friendly and no pressure on either of us.  If I come to see you, I stay in a hotel room at my expense.  If you come here, you stay in the hotel of your choice at your expense (you will not be allowed to stay at my home on a first meet, I will not accept an invitation to stay at yours).  I will not answer personal questions beyond what I would tell any date, on a first date.  I will not ask you any such personal questions either.  I expect pleasant company, enjoyable conversation, a nice meal, maybe a show... and that's it.  A peck on the cheek would be a nice bonus.

I will not budge from this, if you can't live with it, look elsewhere.

See I believe we are supposed to all be adults here.  And as adults we're supposed to have outgrown the need for security blankets.  As adults we're supposed to be able to make rational choices, informed decisions, and deal with life on our own.  So if I meet a submissive who is so frightened of a first meet that she needs endless reassurances, then I assume she's simply not ready to meet anyone and is therefore wasting my time.  When she behaves in such a childish manner, I assume she needs to do some growing up and learn to live in the real world.

I will no longer have my place of business harassed by nutcase submissives.  I will no longer leave myself vulnerable to having personal information published by disgruntled submissives.  I will no longer answer questions about my finances, bank balances or credit history by gold digging snoops.  I have drawn a line, and it will not be crossed again.  I can do that, its a perk of being dominant.

I'm sure my post has pissed off a few submissives who have come to enjoy the special priviledges of being able to make dominants jump through hoops.  I'm sure there are those who will be dismayed at my attitude.  Feel free to identify yourselfs in whatever manner you wish, call me names, attack me, whatever... it'll help me identify which of you I needn't waste my time on.  My time is valuable, and the days of having that time wasted by submissives ruled by fear and too childish to live in the real world without a security blanket are over.

Its time we got back to being reasonable about meeting people.  Its time we started acting like adults, being fair to one another, and realize that everytime we go out the front door we are at risk.  None of us will ever be absolutely safe, it isn't possible.  Dominants are not boogey men, many of us are actually nice guys (hard to believe given the long threads on how to safely meet a dom for the first time).  Submissives aren't evil witches, some of you are good people.  Its time we remembered that trust is a two way street.  Time to give what you ask for.  And if you aren't willing to give it, don't ask for it.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 6:13:10 PM   
enthralled


Posts: 249
Joined: 9/13/2005
From: Nashville, Tn
Status: offline 		Most of the time on a first meet, I ask them to attend a munch. If not, I have a safecall thats within 20 min of wherever I'm meeting the person (coffee shop, diner, etc). If things arent 'right' or I feel creeped out, during the safecall my friends and I have 'codewords' like mentioning that the car overheated on the way there (something I wouldnt say out of the blue), then my friend knows something is up and to get there soon! 

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A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another's.-Jean Paul Richter

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 7:01:26 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		(Fast Reply)

I haven't had a lot of first time meets.  The Dom before my Master arranged to meet me at a Starbucks.  Before our meet, I had his full name, phone number, business name (he ran his own business), and car make and model (so I would know what to look for when he pulled up). 

When I met my Master, we had already established a tight connection by then.  I met him in our hotel room, half the distance between our homes.  I was meeting him to serve him.  I had friend who knew where I would be, and what room number, and who had his business name & number, his home number, his cell number, his car make & model, and a picture of him.  If she didn't hear from me by a particular time, they were to call.  If we spoke, they were to ask me "What was for dinner?"  If I said a particular dinner, I was in trouble.  If after our call, they didn't hear from me again in the morning (it was an overnight visit), the same rules applied.    On the other hand, Master did not ask for any "safety" info on me, nor did he have a safe call :)  Hey ya never know, I could have been the psycho there...

Of course I had some doomsdayer friends who tried to "help" get me in the right mindset by telling me all the stories of everyone ever killed in a scenario like this.  Oh well...lol.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 7:06:44 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		I don't use a safecall exactly. I do generally let someone know if I am meeting someone new and where we are meeting if it a one on one date.  I don't bother if I am going to an event, etc. Sometimes I might ask a little about a person beforehand if we happen to have a mutual acquaintance, but it is more curiosity than safety.

I have had people show me their driver's license upon meeting or send me full name, address, and phone number beforehand. Other than that, I can't think of any extraordinary measures anyone has taken.

When I was in college sometimes myself or one of my friends would go home with a guy from a bar. (My roommate did it a lot actually.)  One of us would go out to the car with them and write down his tag number, with him being fully aware of it.  The only time we actually used a tag number for anything was when she forgot a guy's name and really wanted to call him.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 7:41:36 PM   
Kree


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		Padriag,
I understand your feelings about information and first meetings.  It is about adults meeting, and giving every scrap of information in advance can be dangerous for both parties.  If the intent were for the meeting to include play and possibly an overnight stay, I think both would be entitled to information, but your manner of handling a first meeting should not require that.  My submissive actually applauded your post and showed it to me.

As to the idea of a Dominant going to meet mama and daddy before a first meeting, I thought we would both die laughing.  First, how many people of any age discuss their BDSM interests with their parents? Second, any "dominant" who would agree to such a condition should have their head examined, or take a corsage, since the scene would likely be a Senior Prom. 

_____________________________

Author of "Nytewhispers"

Power whispers, it has no reason to yell

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 8:28:23 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix
Wow erin. As I was reading that, I expected you to comment that his efforts were a bit excessive and really crossed the line into a bit overboard. Then I read that it impressed you and made you feel relaxed. I just kind of sat here speechless for a second.


Lol...see....just when you think you are getting to know me I throw a curve.

Actually, if it would have been almost anyone else I think I may have indeed been offended by it. I guess you would just have to know the guy to understand. It was such a genuinely sweet show of thought and caring on his part. If I had sensed at all that he was being condescending in his offer, or that he was in some way questioning my abilities to make my own judgements....yes, I would have been offended. This was a man who was speaking to a friend of mine and my friend related to him that he knew someone that he thought would be someone of interest to him. We had only spoken a short time before I agreed to a dinner. As I said, I didn't ask for any over the top measures of safety....it was just something he did and all of my instincts told me that he was simply trying to make a nice gesture. So yes....I did think it was nice. He is still a friend today.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 8:28:40 PM   
KennelDeSade2


Posts: 210
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		I would wonder about somebody who went way over the top to prove how harmless they where. 
Most times, I'll meet for coffee at Starbucks (hey, Seattle?) and leave contact info in an email address so if I vanish my daughter has somewhere for the police to start looking for the body. 
The most I ever did, was have coffee at a restaurant with video cameras, so everybody was on tape.  Although nothig bad happened, that was one meet that I should have not allowed, but curriosity got the better of me.

A quick edit that juat occured to me as I thought the whole thread over.  Maybe it should become a third thread on the subject..   But, I realized that my best and longest running relationships (5+ years) began with the least information exchanged..  One girl who was with me for for over three years, I dont believe I ever had her real name.  I could have had anything I desired for the asking, but never did.  After half an hour online, I gave her my home address, and she showed up.
The biggest and most expensive in terms of money and feelings, was the one that got the most information before we met.


< Message edited by KennelDeSade2 -- 6/19/2006 8:42:45 PM >

_____________________________

Rules? Just one: I say, she does.
Everything else, is just details.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/19/2006 10:23:29 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kree

As to the idea of a Dominant going to meet mama and daddy before a first meeting, I thought we would both die laughing.  First, how many people of any age discuss their BDSM interests with their parents?  


*Raises a hand* Actually...... I live with my widowed 61 yr old father.  I moved back in with him at his request to help out due to failing health.  He's very aware of my kink choices.  He's got a few kinks of his own.  He knows what's in my toy bag, and has given me several suggestions on what could be added to it on the cheap for interesting variations.  He frequently sends me the links to various kink websites that he thinks I'll enjoy, or simply calls me into the study to the computer we currently share (mine is being fixed) so I can comment on it and decide whether I want him to save the link so I can look further later on, if we both happen to be home when he runs across one he thinks I'd like.  I do the same for him, if I find a site I think he'd get a kick out of. He's been aware for the past 15 years (as was my mother before she died) that practically every man in my past, relationship wise, has been someone that I knew through BDSM activities.  He knows that I spend most of my saturday nights at the local dungeon (though he's not sure exactly where in the city the dungeon IS.)  He knows when I'm going on a date with a dom or sadist; he knows whether my toy bag is in my car when I leave for that date, and he knows whether I've met/played with that person previously or not.  He isn't simply my father and my house mate - he's also my closest friend, and someone I trust implicitly as an advisor and confidante.
 
Granted, daddy doesn't expect to be a safe call.  He trusts my judgement, doesn't demand to meet the guys I go out with, and doesn't comment in either direction about what time I get home afterwards - whether it's directly after dinner, or sometime the next afternoon.  He expects to meet any guy that I become Seriously involved with, in due time - but he also trusts me to know when "due time" has arrived.  I'm 40 years old, not 4 - and he treats me with the respect of a fellow adult capable of directing her own life, not a half grown child to inexperienced to know what's going on or to fend for herself.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to Kree)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/20/2006 2:59:33 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kree

Padriag,
I understand your feelings about information and first meetings.  It is about adults meeting, and giving every scrap of information in advance can be dangerous for both parties.  If the intent were for the meeting to include play and possibly an overnight stay, I think both would be entitled to information, but your manner of handling a first meeting should not require that.  My submissive actually applauded your post and showed it to me.

As to the idea of a Dominant going to meet mama and daddy before a first meeting, I thought we would both die laughing.  First, how many people of any age discuss their BDSM interests with their parents? Second, any "dominant" who would agree to such a condition should have their head examined, or take a corsage, since the scene would likely be a Senior Prom. 

Thanks Kree, I honestly wasn't sure what kind of reaction my post would generate.  I say that because I have seen so many posts across so many msg boards and web sites about all these elaborate safety procedures submissives are suppose to follow these days.  And I hear so many that wave around like a banner what they've read on CastleRealm or someplace, as though it were Moses with the Ten Commandments (and you know what happen to those ten commandments when he came down from the mountain... they gut busted into a million pieces).  I've gotten to the point that when I see them I can't help but wonder if people have just lost touch with reality.  By that I mean, I wonder if there aren't those online who are inventing boogeymen, inventing things to be afraid of.  Are we scaring ourselves unnecessarily?  The question should be asked.  I'm not saying people shouldn't be safe, just be sensible about it, be reasonable about it.  If you get in a small boat you wear a life preserver... but you don't put on a cold water survival suit and ten life vests and pack a month's survival kit just to go across a lake in a canoe if you get my metaphor.

As for girls and their parents... I've known three slaves over the years who's parents were also in the lifestyle and knew what their daughters were doing.  Not a very common thing, but there are some.  In two of those cases Dad had a chat with me before I took his daughter out.  I didn't mind, where I grew up it was still something of a tradition (a dying tradition, but it still happened sometimes).  But Dad didn't ask for details, Dad just wanted to know what sort of guy I was.  And there it is, the thing I think people should really remember.

Take the time to get to know the person.  Its the only way I know of to have any real chance of knowing who that person is and whether you can trust them.  But then that of course takes time... something a 30 second sound bite society often doesn't have the patience for.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Kree)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/20/2006 3:27:59 AM   
Sab


Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I think that wife has said everything, but to add - we grew in trust enough to not need any of this. OK - if it after a week of typing into IM, then yes, but after the time we spent speaking on the phone as well as on p2p - there really wasn't any point, she had spoken to some of my family here and I hers there - the trust was there - so we met. That is the long and the short of it, we trusted each other as human beings can trust. 

_____________________________

God blessed it and it brought me to her.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/20/2006 5:29:38 AM   
Rayne58


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		When I flew to Australia to meet Master for the first time, I made sure I had a return ticket. Before we met He gave me His full name, address and phone number (landline) and we chatted on the phone a few times before my visit. I gave that info to a friend of mine who also was expecting a text message every day, if she didn't get one she was to go to the police and give them the info I'd given her.

Master was fully aware of this and in fact encouraged it. We met at the airport that first time....lol I felt perfectly safe, because He'd written off His car 3 weeks before and His mother insisted on driving Him to the airport!

Oh, I did use that return ticket.......but 6 weeks after I returned to NZ I flew back to Him on a one-way trip......

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/20/2006 5:53:00 AM   
SBpattypet


Posts: 5
Joined: 3/14/2004
Status: offline 		Well this is good to hear but we go just a little bit futher in asking any sub that is going to meet someone that he/she get a copy of Masters DL and SS numbers and give them to someone close this way if something does go wrong then the police know just who they are looking for and it will keep those meeting safe
if the Master that you are wanting to meet will not give you these things then it is best that you do not meet they are not real or they have something to hide and we would not trust them
We hope that this will give you some safty in your meetings for those that realy want to do so
 
SB&pattypet

(in reply to Rayne58)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/20/2006 6:11:09 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kree
As to the idea of a Dominant going to meet mama and daddy before a first meeting, I thought we would both die laughing.  First, how many people of any age discuss their BDSM interests with their parents?

A lot more than you'd think actually.

For me, I don't get meeting the parents on a first date of any kind.  For me that's a special step that you put everyone through when you've decided you want that other person hanging around long enough to make it worthwhile to bring them into your family circle.

My family has met both of the partners I'm moving in with.  Most of them don't know about the kinky stuff- my partners are more than just a "kinky person" to me.  They are a life partner.  That is how they are introduced to the family.

quote:

Second, any "dominant" who would agree to such a condition should have their head examined, or take a corsage, since the scene would likely be a Senior Prom. 

Sigh how I would have LOVED to have a good dominant take me out to my prom :)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Kree)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/20/2006 6:12:45 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SBpattypet
Well this is good to hear but we go just a little bit futher in asking any sub that is going to meet someone that he/she get a copy of Masters DL and SS numbers and give them to someone close this way if something does go wrong then the police know just who they are looking for and it will keep those meeting safe
if the Master that you are wanting to meet will not give you these things then it is best that you do not meet they are not real or they have something to hide and we would not trust them
We hope that this will give you some safty in your meetings for those that realy want to do so
 
SB&pattypet

Or they are smart.  Give up a SSN to someone you've never even met offline before?  Yeah, and credit card while you're at it.

Not wanting to give up personal information does NOT mean that a person is bad or hiding.  If you don't consider that risk worth taking, that's your own business.  But you've made some pretty wacko correllations there.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SBpattypet)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/20/2006 6:27:20 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: SBpattypet
Well this is good to hear but we go just a little bit futher in asking any sub that is going to meet someone that he/she get a copy of Masters DL and SS numbers and give them to someone close this way if something does go wrong then the police know just who they are looking for and it will keep those meeting safe
if the Master that you are wanting to meet will not give you these things then it is best that you do not meet they are not real or they have something to hide and we would not trust them
We hope that this will give you some safty in your meetings for those that realy want to do so
 
SB&pattypet

Or they are smart.  Give up a SSN to someone you've never even met offline before?  Yeah, and credit card while you're at it.

Not wanting to give up personal information does NOT mean that a person is bad or hiding.  If you don't consider that risk worth taking, that's your own business.  But you've made some pretty wacko correllations there.



I have to agree with this.  SSN??  No thanks.  Identity theft, anyone? 

We did not exchange this kind of info at all, not even drivers license numbers.  Master said "You trust me or you don't.  If you don't, we won't meet yet."  I didn't, so we didn't meet yet.  A few weeks later I did, and we did.  :)

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Lengths gone to in the name of safety? - 6/20/2006 6:48:39 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: SBpattypet
Well this is good to hear but we go just a little bit futher in asking any sub that is going to meet someone that he/she get a copy of Masters DL and SS numbers and give them to someone close this way if something does go wrong then the police know just who they are looking for and it will keep those meeting safe
if the Master that you are wanting to meet will not give you these things then it is best that you do not meet they are not real or they have something to hide and we would not trust them
We hope that this will give you some safty in your meetings for those that realy want to do so
 
SB&pattypet

Or they are smart.  Give up a SSN to someone you've never even met offline before?  Yeah, and credit card while you're at it.

Not wanting to give up personal information does NOT mean that a person is bad or hiding.  If you don't consider that risk worth taking, that's your own business.  But you've made some pretty wacko correllations there.


This would be a pretty good test for "dumbest master on earth."

Even if someone gave the person asking numbers, how in the world would they check that those are the real numbers?  What I suggest is getting confirmable information.  For example, Libby called my assistant's secretary to make sure I worked at Erdos & Morgan before he came down to NYC.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 40
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