RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States?

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BamaD -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/25/2013 7:37:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Given that "Militia" in slave owning states was "Escaped Slave Patrol", I could see how ( for example, Virginia ) wouldn't get involved until their Police State was guaranteed. I mean, if "Militias" were for repelling invasions, the brits wouldn't have gotten to DC in 1812, right? American Militias were originally formed at the behest of the King, as was the insistence that all white male adults be armed. The reason for this was the huge size of the colonies making the cost of protecting them with royal troops prohibitive. George couldn't afford that to maintain that many troops that far away. Militias were never able to stand up to anywhere near an equal sized force of professional soldiers. They cut and ran almost every time. Cowpens, look it up

jlf1961 -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/25/2013 8:32:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Given that "Militia" in slave owning states was "Escaped Slave Patrol", I could see how ( for example, Virginia ) wouldn't get involved until their Police State was guaranteed. I mean, if "Militias" were for repelling invasions, the brits wouldn't have gotten to DC in 1812, right? American Militias were originally formed at the behest of the King, as was the insistence that all white male adults be armed. The reason for this was the huge size of the colonies making the cost of protecting them with royal troops prohibitive. George couldn't afford that to maintain that many troops that far away. Militias were never able to stand up to anywhere near an equal sized force of professional soldiers. They cut and ran almost every time. Cowpens, look it up Lexington and Concord. Kings Mountain NC Not to mention its victories in small unit battles and guerrilla warfare... which according to the Redcoat commanders, was unsportsmen like.

BamaD -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/25/2013 8:48:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Given that "Militia" in slave owning states was "Escaped Slave Patrol", I could see how ( for example, Virginia ) wouldn't get involved until their Police State was guaranteed. I mean, if "Militias" were for repelling invasions, the brits wouldn't have gotten to DC in 1812, right? American Militias were originally formed at the behest of the King, as was the insistence that all white male adults be armed. The reason for this was the huge size of the colonies making the cost of protecting them with royal troops prohibitive. George couldn't afford that to maintain that many troops that far away. Militias were never able to stand up to anywhere near an equal sized force of professional soldiers. They cut and ran almost every time. Cowpens, look it up Lexington and Concord. Kings Mountain NC Not to mention its victories in small unit battles and guerrilla warfare... which according to the Redcoat commanders, was unsportsmen like. Didn't want to overtax anyone. I chose Cowpens because Morgan took advantage of the elitist view that militias were useless against "real" soldiers.

jlf1961 -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/25/2013 8:59:14 PM)
quote: The Battle of Kings Mountain was a decisive battle between the Patriot and Loyalist militias in the Southern campaign of the American Revolutionary War. The actual battle took place on October 7, 1780, nine miles south of the present-day town of Kings Mountain, North Carolina in rural York County, South Carolina, where the Patriot militia defeated the Loyalist militia commanded by British Major Patrick Ferguson of the 71st Foot. Ferguson had arrived in North Carolina in early September 1780 with the purpose of recruiting for the Loyalist militia and protecting the flank of Lord Cornwallis' main force. Ferguson issued a challenge to the rebel militias to lay down their arms or suffer the consequences. In response, the Patriot militias led by James Johnston, William Campbell, John Sevier, Joseph McDowell and Isaac Shelby rallied for an attack on Ferguson. Receiving intelligence on the oncoming attack, Ferguson decided to retreat to the safety of Lord Cornwallis' army. However, the Patriots caught up with the Loyalists at Kings Mountain on the border with South Carolina. Achieving a complete surprise, the Patriot militiamen attacked and surrounded the Loyalists, inflicting heavy casualties. After an hour of battle, Ferguson was fatally shot while trying to break the rebel line, after which his men surrendered. Eager to avenge the Banastre Tarleton's massacre of the militiamen at the Battle of Waxhaws, the Patriots gave no quarter until the rebel officers re-established control over their men. Although victorious, the Patriots had to retreat quickly from the area for fear of Cornwallis' advance. The battle was a pivotal moment in the Southern campaign. The surprising victory over the American Loyalist militia came after a string of rebel defeats at the hands of Lord Cornwallis, and greatly raised the Patriots' morale. With Ferguson dead and his Loyalist militia destroyed, Cornwallis was forced to abandon his plan to invade North Carolina and retreated into South Carolina Battle of Kings Mountain see also Pissing Proclamation. Moral of story, never piss off the mountain folk of western North Carolina.

slvemike4u -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/25/2013 9:15:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: The Battle of Kings Mountain was a decisive battle between the Patriot and Loyalist militias in the Southern campaign of the American Revolutionary War. The actual battle took place on October 7, 1780, nine miles south of the present-day town of Kings Mountain, North Carolina in rural York County, South Carolina, where the Patriot militia defeated the Loyalist militia commanded by British Major Patrick Ferguson of the 71st Foot. Ferguson had arrived in North Carolina in early September 1780 with the purpose of recruiting for the Loyalist militia and protecting the flank of Lord Cornwallis' main force. Ferguson issued a challenge to the rebel militias to lay down their arms or suffer the consequences. In response, the Patriot militias led by James Johnston, William Campbell, John Sevier, Joseph McDowell and Isaac Shelby rallied for an attack on Ferguson. Receiving intelligence on the oncoming attack, Ferguson decided to retreat to the safety of Lord Cornwallis' army. However, the Patriots caught up with the Loyalists at Kings Mountain on the border with South Carolina. Achieving a complete surprise, the Patriot militiamen attacked and surrounded the Loyalists, inflicting heavy casualties. After an hour of battle, Ferguson was fatally shot while trying to break the rebel line, after which his men surrendered. Eager to avenge the Banastre Tarleton's massacre of the militiamen at the Battle of Waxhaws, the Patriots gave no quarter until the rebel officers re-established control over their men. Although victorious, the Patriots had to retreat quickly from the area for fear of Cornwallis' advance. The battle was a pivotal moment in the Southern campaign. The surprising victory over the American Loyalist militia came after a string of rebel defeats at the hands of Lord Cornwallis, and greatly raised the Patriots' morale. With Ferguson dead and his Loyalist militia destroyed, Cornwallis was forced to abandon his plan to invade North Carolina and retreated into South Carolina Battle of Kings Mountain see also Pissing Proclamation. Moral of story, never piss off the mountain folk of western North Carolina. So Kink Mountain isn't an example of militia standing up to professional soldiers ? According to what you just posted King Mountain was an example where both factions were militia...thereby being an example of .....well nothing really....lol

jlf1961 -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/25/2013 9:27:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: The Battle of Kings Mountain was a decisive battle between the Patriot and Loyalist militias in the Southern campaign of the American Revolutionary War. The actual battle took place on October 7, 1780, nine miles south of the present-day town of Kings Mountain, North Carolina in rural York County, South Carolina, where the Patriot militia defeated the Loyalist militia commanded by British Major Patrick Ferguson of the 71st Foot. Ferguson had arrived in North Carolina in early September 1780 with the purpose of recruiting for the Loyalist militia and protecting the flank of Lord Cornwallis' main force. Ferguson issued a challenge to the rebel militias to lay down their arms or suffer the consequences. In response, the Patriot militias led by James Johnston, William Campbell, John Sevier, Joseph McDowell and Isaac Shelby rallied for an attack on Ferguson. Receiving intelligence on the oncoming attack, Ferguson decided to retreat to the safety of Lord Cornwallis' army. However, the Patriots caught up with the Loyalists at Kings Mountain on the border with South Carolina. Achieving a complete surprise, the Patriot militiamen attacked and surrounded the Loyalists, inflicting heavy casualties. After an hour of battle, Ferguson was fatally shot while trying to break the rebel line, after which his men surrendered. Eager to avenge the Banastre Tarleton's massacre of the militiamen at the Battle of Waxhaws, the Patriots gave no quarter until the rebel officers re-established control over their men. Although victorious, the Patriots had to retreat quickly from the area for fear of Cornwallis' advance. The battle was a pivotal moment in the Southern campaign. The surprising victory over the American Loyalist militia came after a string of rebel defeats at the hands of Lord Cornwallis, and greatly raised the Patriots' morale. With Ferguson dead and his Loyalist militia destroyed, Cornwallis was forced to abandon his plan to invade North Carolina and retreated into South Carolina Battle of Kings Mountain see also Pissing Proclamation. Moral of story, never piss off the mountain folk of western North Carolina. So Kink Mountain isn't an example of militia standing up to professional soldiers ? According to what you just posted King Mountain was an example where both factions were militia...thereby being an example of .....well nothing really....lol True, the only difference it that the loyalist troops actually received extensive training before being formed into a unit.

BamaD -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/25/2013 10:03:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: The Battle of Kings Mountain was a decisive battle between the Patriot and Loyalist militias in the Southern campaign of the American Revolutionary War. The actual battle took place on October 7, 1780, nine miles south of the present-day town of Kings Mountain, North Carolina in rural York County, South Carolina, where the Patriot militia defeated the Loyalist militia commanded by British Major Patrick Ferguson of the 71st Foot. Ferguson had arrived in North Carolina in early September 1780 with the purpose of recruiting for the Loyalist militia and protecting the flank of Lord Cornwallis' main force. Ferguson issued a challenge to the rebel militias to lay down their arms or suffer the consequences. In response, the Patriot militias led by James Johnston, William Campbell, John Sevier, Joseph McDowell and Isaac Shelby rallied for an attack on Ferguson. Receiving intelligence on the oncoming attack, Ferguson decided to retreat to the safety of Lord Cornwallis' army. However, the Patriots caught up with the Loyalists at Kings Mountain on the border with South Carolina. Achieving a complete surprise, the Patriot militiamen attacked and surrounded the Loyalists, inflicting heavy casualties. After an hour of battle, Ferguson was fatally shot while trying to break the rebel line, after which his men surrendered. Eager to avenge the Banastre Tarleton's massacre of the militiamen at the Battle of Waxhaws, the Patriots gave no quarter until the rebel officers re-established control over their men. Although victorious, the Patriots had to retreat quickly from the area for fear of Cornwallis' advance. The battle was a pivotal moment in the Southern campaign. The surprising victory over the American Loyalist militia came after a string of rebel defeats at the hands of Lord Cornwallis, and greatly raised the Patriots' morale. With Ferguson dead and his Loyalist militia destroyed, Cornwallis was forced to abandon his plan to invade North Carolina and retreated into South Carolina Battle of Kings Mountain see also Pissing Proclamation. Moral of story, never piss off the mountain folk of western North Carolina. So Kink Mountain isn't an example of militia standing up to professional soldiers ? According to what you just posted King Mountain was an example where both factions were militia...thereby being an example of .....well nothing really....lol At cowpens on the other hand Morgan put the milita in the center and after two volleys had them fake a panic which the British regulars fell for leading them into a killing box.

Politesub53 -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/26/2013 5:00:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Didn't want to overtax anyone. I chose Cowpens because Morgan took advantage of the elitist view that militias were useless against "real" soldiers. Bullshit....... Morgan chose his battleground between two rivers precisely because the militia had a habit of running when things got hot. He also had them move to the rear for the seam reason, as well as to draw Tarleton into a trap. IE, Morgan had little faith in the Militia. To suggest he did otherwise to take advantage of some elitist view is absurd.

BamaD -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/27/2013 7:09:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Didn't want to overtax anyone. I chose Cowpens because Morgan took advantage of the elitist view that militias were useless against "real" soldiers. Bullshit....... Morgan chose his battleground between two rivers precisely because the militia had a habit of running when things got hot. He also had them move to the rear for the seam reason, as well as to draw Tarleton into a trap. IE, Morgan had little faith in the Militia. To suggest he did otherwise to take advantage of some elitist view is absurd. Looks like I will have get back to my history professors and have them contact you to gain your superior knowledge. I am sure that the British educational system would highlight "The Butcher" being outsmarted if it had happened. Ps Shortly later Green used the same trick angainst Cornwallis and guess what it worked again.

vegasgunguy -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/31/2013 1:02:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata The "bone" was gun-control, not the Second Amendment. Gun-control originated as a way to keep guns out of black hands. By the National Rifle Association..... It was the dems my friend, with their counterparts in the KKK go watch no guns for negros...

Powergamz1 -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/31/2013 8:06:20 AM)
You might want to do a little more research before you place either Democrats or the KKK into the writing of the 2nd Amendment. A century and a half later, they were quite happy to deny the 2nd to certain people though... setting up the 'gun control as racism' part of US history that continued until the Supreme Court explicitly ruled against it. quote: ORIGINAL: vegasgunguy quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata The "bone" was gun-control, not the Second Amendment. Gun-control originated as a way to keep guns out of black hands. By the National Rifle Association..... It was the dems my friend, with their counterparts in the KKK go watch no guns for negros...

Hillwilliam -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/31/2013 8:14:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: The Battle of Kings Mountain was a decisive battle between the Patriot and Loyalist militias in the Southern campaign of the American Revolutionary War. The actual battle took place on October 7, 1780, nine miles south of the present-day town of Kings Mountain, North Carolina in rural York County, South Carolina, where the Patriot militia defeated the Loyalist militia commanded by British Major Patrick Ferguson of the 71st Foot. Ferguson had arrived in North Carolina in early September 1780 with the purpose of recruiting for the Loyalist militia and protecting the flank of Lord Cornwallis' main force. Ferguson issued a challenge to the rebel militias to lay down their arms or suffer the consequences. In response, the Patriot militias led by James Johnston, William Campbell, John Sevier, Joseph McDowell and Isaac Shelby rallied for an attack on Ferguson. Receiving intelligence on the oncoming attack, Ferguson decided to retreat to the safety of Lord Cornwallis' army. However, the Patriots caught up with the Loyalists at Kings Mountain on the border with South Carolina. Achieving a complete surprise, the Patriot militiamen attacked and surrounded the Loyalists, inflicting heavy casualties. After an hour of battle, Ferguson was fatally shot while trying to break the rebel line, after which his men surrendered. Eager to avenge the Banastre Tarleton's massacre of the militiamen at the Battle of Waxhaws, the Patriots gave no quarter until the rebel officers re-established control over their men. Although victorious, the Patriots had to retreat quickly from the area for fear of Cornwallis' advance. The battle was a pivotal moment in the Southern campaign. The surprising victory over the American Loyalist militia came after a string of rebel defeats at the hands of Lord Cornwallis, and greatly raised the Patriots' morale. With Ferguson dead and his Loyalist militia destroyed, Cornwallis was forced to abandon his plan to invade North Carolina and retreated into South Carolina Battle of Kings Mountain see also Pissing Proclamation. Moral of story, never piss off the mountain folk of western North Carolina. Those guys were mostly from what is now northeast Tennessee. Actually, Ferguson wasn't fatally shot trying to break the line. He was fatally shot after he came down under a truce flag and then pulled a pistol and killed one of the rebel officers. The wiki article isn't quite correct. that's why he had so many bullet holes in him. This is one of the main reasons why the rebels weren't in the mood to give quarter. Fort Watauga where the overmountain men mustered is in my hometown.

Real0ne -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/31/2013 8:31:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Powergamz1 You might want to do a little more research before you place either Democrats or the KKK into the writing of the 2nd Amendment. A century and a half later, they were quite happy to deny the 2nd to certain people though... setting up the 'gun control as racism' part of US history that continued until the Supreme Court explicitly ruled against it. the monetary system is in violation of the 13th as well as others.

Politesub53 -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/31/2013 4:30:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Looks like I will have get back to my history professors and have them contact you to gain your superior knowledge. I am sure that the British educational system would highlight "The Butcher" being outsmarted if it had happened. Ps Shortly later Green used the same trick angainst Cornwallis and guess what it worked again. Dont take my word, do some research. Like I said, Morgan had little faith in his militia. quote: Morgan's plan for the battle called for the skirmishers to engage Tarleton's men before falling back. Knowing that the militia was unreliable in combat, he asked that they fire two volleys before retreating behind the hill. http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/americanrevolution/p/cowpens.htm

BamaD -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/31/2013 5:36:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Looks like I will have get back to my history professors and have them contact you to gain your superior knowledge. I am sure that the British educational system would highlight "The Butcher" being outsmarted if it had happened. Ps Shortly later Green used the same trick angainst Cornwallis and guess what it worked again. Dont take my word, do some research. Like I said, Morgan had little faith in his militia. quote: Morgan's plan for the battle called for the skirmishers to engage Tarleton's men before falling back. Knowing that the militia was unreliable in combat, he asked that they fire two volleys before retreating behind the hill. http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/americanrevolution/p/cowpens.htm As I said t is obvious that being English you know and understand our history much better than we could ever hope to

BamaD -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (1/31/2013 5:53:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Looks like I will have get back to my history professors and have them contact you to gain your superior knowledge. I am sure that the British educational system would highlight "The Butcher" being outsmarted if it had happened. Ps Shortly later Green used the same trick angainst Cornwallis and guess what it worked again. Dont take my word, do some research. Like I said, Morgan had little faith in his militia. quote: Morgan's plan for the battle called for the skirmishers to engage Tarleton's men before falling back. Knowing that the militia was unreliable in combat, he asked that they fire two volleys before retreating behind the hill. http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/americanrevolution/p/cowpens.htm As so often happens you miss the point. I never said that the militia stood up to regulars, sluged it out with them and beat them. I said that Morgan and later Green used the British contempt for the militias against them and got what could reasonably be expected of them. Knowing that when they were told to run the Brits would never suspect a trap he used this to spring one. The primary venue and strength of the militias was not it the major stand up fight but in the scirmish. Only a lack of understanding of military tactics could keep a person from understanding so I am certain it is now perfectly clear to you

Politesub53 -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (2/1/2013 4:16:32 PM)
You are now telling porkies....... You said, and I quote quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Didn't want to overtax anyone. I chose Cowpens because Morgan took advantage of the elitist view that militias were useless against "real" soldiers Now this. As I said t is obvious that being English you know and understand our history much better than we could ever hope to As for the snide comment about my being English....yes I really do know more than you. I even knew how to research and quote info using an American web site. I guess they had a different professor to you huh. [8\|]

BamaD -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (2/1/2013 4:20:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 You are now telling porkies....... You said, and I quote quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Didn't want to overtax anyone. I chose Cowpens because Morgan took advantage of the elitist view that militias were useless against "real" soldiers Now this. As I said t is obvious that being English you know and understand our history much better than we could ever hope to As for the snide comment about my being English....yes I really do know more than you. I even knew how to research and quote info using an American web site. I guess they had a different professor to you huh. [8\|] Sorry but there is no conflict between my two statements and no you don't know more than I do but thank you for proving my point about assumed superiority Read my last post where I explained how Morgan used the British assumption that the militia would panic allowed them to lead the British into a killing box.

Politesub53 -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (2/1/2013 4:23:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 You are now telling porkies....... You said, and I quote quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Didn't want to overtax anyone. I chose Cowpens because Morgan took advantage of the elitist view that militias were useless against "real" soldiers Now this. As I said t is obvious that being English you know and understand our history much better than we could ever hope to As for the snide comment about my being English....yes I really do know more than you. I even knew how to research and quote info using an American web site. I guess they had a different professor to you huh. [8\|] Sorry but there is no conflict between my two statements and no you don't know more than I do but thank you for proving my point about assumed superiority Nothing assumed, just proven by your contradictory posts......harsh but fair methinks. Care to address my points about elitist views as per an American web sites content ? ......Thought not.

Nosathro -> RE: Was the 2nd Amendment a bone tossed to Slave States? (2/1/2013 4:26:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I am formally announcing my intention to form the Free person's militia to protect the public from Starbucks. Oh good, give me some time to move to a State with Starbucks and a Stand Your Ground law, I will never go to trial for sure. But I do sugguest you read this.... http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/GV/htm/GV.431.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_movement

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