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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 4:58:46 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Because those are stylized combat with rules that favor extended bouts where strength and physical resilience matter.

Yeah really... good thing being in combat doesn't.

K.

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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 5:45:55 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Because those are stylized combat with rules that favor extended bouts where strength and physical resilience matter.

Yeah really... good thing being in combat doesn't.

K.

I'll take speed and know how any day.

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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 5:54:43 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

News reports indicate Leon Panetta, US Secretary of Defence, is lifting the ban on women in most combat roles in the US military.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/panetta-opens-combat-roles-women

Will this cause the end of western civilization or usher in a new golden age?


Neither. I think that this is a poorly thought out idea. Sure, it looks good on paper, but so do three-somes and communism.

Why precisely, if we are going to put troops into combat, should one gender be excluded from those roles and the danger associated with it?



By and large, women are just not built for it.

If they get shot at, or are in a position to get shot at, they deserve all the rights and privileges of anybody else who gets shot at. That said, there are certain aspects of ground combat that simply should be kept restricted to men.

The average combat rucksack is what. . . 80 pounds? How long is a five foot three woman going to be able to carry it? We will just put her in the medics corps! Great. How many women medics at five three, will it take to move a 185 pound male with an 80 pound rucksack out of the field of fire? http://www.blackfive.net/main/2012/08/hey-whats-it-like-to-be-in-a-rifle-platoon-these-days.html#comments

I will give you a woman's responses to being in battle: http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/get-over-it-we-are-not-all-created-equal

Put them on tanks! Great. Can they lift the ammo? Change and fix the track? How many women will it take compared to how many men?

The Army already did this, back in 1979. They made a much larger than normal 105 and 155 (towed, not SP) crew of much larger than normal women and, after a considerable amount of PT, got them to actually lay, load, and fire the gun. Course, what the herstorians will never mention is that one of the guns was the lightest available, and the other much easier than an SPG, that they had considerable trouble with the 155, that it was all set up by men, and that the ammo was ported and broken down by men. What that was supposed to prove frankly eludes me. That women will believe anything if it fits the pravda? That some women will? That senior men in the Army have no balls? That Jiminy Peanut was a dickhead? All of the above?

The study is here: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA078769

http://marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/10/marine-corps-women-infantry-officers-course-101512/

It is not the danger that is the problem. It is the muscles needed that are the problem. As a feminist, this has been hard to deal with, but, guys can handle bigger loads. And our current Army demands that.





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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 6:18:50 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

It is not the danger that is the problem. It is the muscles needed that are the problem. As a feminist, this has been hard to deal with, but, guys can handle bigger loads. And our current Army demands that.



For one thing, most women might not, but a percentage will. The military recruit an individual on the basis of that given individual's merits, presumably - they don't recruit any designated demographic. It doesn't seem fair to discriminate against an entire sex just because most couldn't cut it for the military; just as it wouldn't seem fair to debar, say, men with Indian heritage because these happen, on average, to be smaller and more lightly built than white men. Most people of either sex couldn't (or wouldn't) cut it for the military.

For another - how much, really, is humans' aggressive power about their physical strength, these days? It became markedly less way back when we humans started using wooden clubs and spears instead of our bare hands. Surely nowadays, especially, humans' fighting strengths are located in their brains rather than their muscles?





< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 1/23/2013 6:19:20 PM >

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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 6:21:56 PM   
Baroana


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Status: offline 		Of course women can't hack it in physically dangerous jobs. They're inferior. That's why they don't allow women to be cops.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 6:26:24 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		I speak as the proud claimant of having met England's first ever fire-woman. And she really did have to pass all the physical tests that the males had to pass - included in which (IIRC) being able to lift a 12 stone man from the ground and carry him on her shoulders. She wasn't petite (average height for a woman, though broad-ish about the shoulders), but she was no strapping Amazon, either.

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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 6:28:31 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

News reports indicate Leon Panetta, US Secretary of Defence, is lifting the ban on women in most combat roles in the US military.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/panetta-opens-combat-roles-women

Will this cause the end of western civilization or usher in a new golden age?



Wherever there's pussy...there's war.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 6:37:20 PM   
ShaharThorne


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Status: offline 		I am a veteran and was trained in shooting an M-60. This was back in the 80s though. If Israel has female combat soldiers, so can the USA.

I was a comm rat anyway so not only did I have to carry a 80 pound knapsack, I had to make sure I can lift 75 pound radios. I weight trained myself to keep fit. I also was the only female comm rat. The other females in my company were medics or paperpushers.

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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 7:00:00 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaharThorne
I am a veteran


You should coin a different term. "Veteran" makes you sound old. Just saying.


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 8:21:53 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

Nothing prevents a woman from performing as well as a man in these scenarios. In hand to hand combat in particular speed is a bigger factor than physical strength and women are faster than men, in general. The major advantage a man has is physical strength which only really matters if humping a field pack.


DomKen I'm 66 I'll bet I could kick the ass of 70 percent of the women in active duty today...On average a woman will not be able to match a man in equally trained hand to hand anything... Nor will they be able to throw a wounded man over their shoulder in a fireman’s carry and run a 100 yards.

I would not want a woman in my outfit with my life on the line...at least in the infantry. There are plenty of other areas of combat a woman would do just fine I guess but not where strength and physical endurance is concerned.

I am not talking bravery…or pain tolerance… or mental capabilities…just what I stated above.

I think you have been watching too much science fiction…Of course this is just my opinion.

Butch

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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 8:22:47 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		Israel has women in combat teams, and those ladies are some bad ass bitches.

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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 8:31:57 PM   
Lynnxz


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Joined: 10/3/2006
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Status: offline 		*Edit* damnit hang on

< Message edited by Lynnxz -- 1/23/2013 8:32:24 PM >

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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 8:36:09 PM   
Lynnxz


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Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		Who says they have to be contained to humping around rucksacks like mules all day?


Meet Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a soviet sniper in WWII with 309 confirmed kills.

Woman in the US military are currently banned from this position.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 8:48:15 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

Israel has women in combat teams, and those ladies are some bad ass bitches.


All told, only 12 percent of military positions in Israel are off-limits to women, including combat positions in the armored corps and infantry.

After a search

Butch

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 9:23:24 PM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

Who says they have to be contained to humping around rucksacks like mules all day?


Meet Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a soviet sniper in WWII with 309 confirmed kills.

Woman in the US military are currently banned from this position.





Yes and women pilots one of the most notible were the "Night Witches", women also flow fighter, drove tanks at Kursk as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 9:43:48 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		All the tap dancing aside, some US women are already in combat. The argument that they shouldn't be paid or recognized for it holds no water.



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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 10:03:20 PM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

FR...

I can only imagine the howls and vitriol that would come down if a male senior infantry officer offered a "joke" about women on the battlefield being more effective if they were PMS'ing.

Can the push a button on an Attack Sub? Maybe.

Do they have the strength and reflexes to fly combat fighter planes at high Gs? I guess there could be one or two.


Women already serve successfully on submarines and as fighter pilots.

quote:

Would they be able to fight equally and as effective against men in hand to hand combat, in fire fights, attack raids and the like? NO... they can not!


How about you tell those women that got the Silver Star in Afghanistan about how ineffective their combat was? 50% of active duty servicewomen see combat, even without being officially able to be in the infantry. Clearly the military think they do a pretty good job of it, because they keep adding to the jobs that women are allowed to do.

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RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 10:12:44 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

It is not the danger that is the problem. It is the muscles needed that are the problem. As a feminist, this has been hard to deal with, but, guys can handle bigger loads. And our current Army demands that.



For one thing, most women might not, but a percentage will. The military recruit an individual on the basis of that given individual's merits, presumably - they don't recruit any designated demographic. It doesn't seem fair to discriminate against an entire sex just because most couldn't cut it for the military; just as it wouldn't seem fair to debar, say, men with Indian heritage because these happen, on average, to be smaller and more lightly built than white men. Most people of either sex couldn't (or wouldn't) cut it for the military.

For another - how much, really, is humans' aggressive power about their physical strength, these days? It became markedly less way back when we humans started using wooden clubs and spears instead of our bare hands. Surely nowadays, especially, humans' fighting strengths are located in their brains rather than their muscles?






Ugh.

Lest's just kill some more people. Really, do you believe this crap you write? Because if so, I might say you are an idiot studying to be a moron.

Let's stop with the military being a social experiment galore.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 10:21:44 PM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen



Nothing prevents a woman from performing as well as a man in these scenarios. In hand to hand combat in particular speed is a bigger factor than physical strength and women are faster than men, in general.




Why don't they compete against men in boxing, karate or cage fighting ?
It's not like "Buffy The Vampire Slayer".


I do recall a woman taking on a Karate Expert who was male, she used boxing techniques and won. Personally...I have fought many women in sword fighting, I been defeated by some, all were great with different sword techiques, all inspired me to work harder at my sport.


Yeah, I do martial arts, and I mostly work with men, both in ground fighting and Taekwondo sparring. It's really not a problem. I do have to be more skilled than a comparably-sized male opponent to win, but it happens. Just like I have to work harder to do push-ups, but I still do them.

Women are generally going to have a harder time with the upper-body strength stuff, no question, but if they're willing to do extra work and training I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Women in combat - 1/23/2013 10:22:34 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Lest's just kill some more people. Really, do you believe this crap you write? Because if so, I might say you are an idiot studying to be a moron.



NM.

What can I say to a woman who's already got a doctorate in 'cretin'?

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 1/23/2013 10:24:18 PM >

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