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[Poll]

Immigration Reform


Make a way for them to stay
  40% (18)
Don't reward breaking the law, they should be sent home
  55% (25)
no habla ingles, asshat
  4% (2)


Total Votes : 45
(last vote on : 2/6/2013 2:29:02 AM)
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RE: Immigration Reform - 1/29/2013 4:45:43 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		As long as illegals are doing work that most American born people refuse to do then I say, give them a path to legal status in the country.

The illegals are already here, and most of them are already working. It would actually cost more to even try to deport all of them. And because so many are, in fact, working, as farm laborers, domestics, etc. the impact on the economy overall if we just deported them would actually be negative.

My friend just recently hired a babysitter. Not one of the people who interviewed for the job was American born. Not one. So someone just got hired for a job that an American was unwilling to do. So what is the answer? Deport the person willing to work as a domestic (and thereby force my friend to lose her job, too - she is a divorced mom and needs to continue to work)?? My friend would have gladly hired an American had any applied.....


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/29/2013 4:56:52 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I tend to agree with you, ftp... I don't like that people are here illegally (but I do understand), I just don't see them getting deported en masse; so what's the next best thing?

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/29/2013 5:07:13 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The lack of funding to maintain the infrastructure is a seperate tax issue I think. The immigrants are already here. Don't see how they are a cost if they are working and paying taxes.


Since when do illegals pay taxes other than of the sales variety?

By-and-large, illegal aliens work in cash jobs and pay no income tax, what-so-ever. If they did, they would eventually raise a red flag and be arrested.

As for your point about over-staying visas: When you are issued a visa, you are agreeing to abide by the terms of the visa. The visa specifies how long you can stay and whether or not you can work, while you're here.

Anyone that "over-stays" a visa is in violation of that agreement and therefore in the country fraudulently. If they came in on a vacation visa and got five cents given to them for delivering a newspaper, they are in violation of the law.

Because I am a child of divorce and re-marriage, I have three sets of immigrant grandparents. I am well aware of the contributions that naturalized citizens made and make to this country. I am also aware that the illegal ones are essentially, nothing more than a drain.



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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/29/2013 8:34:12 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The lack of funding to maintain the infrastructure is a seperate tax issue I think. The immigrants are already here. Don't see how they are a cost if they are working and paying taxes.


Since when do illegals pay taxes other than of the sales variety?

The fact that illegal immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes.

quote:

By-and-large, illegal aliens work in cash jobs and pay no income tax, what-so-ever. If they did, they would eventually raise a red flag and be arrested.

And another vital thing happened in 1996: the Internal Revenue Service began issuing identification numbers to enable illegal immigrants who don't have Social Security numbers to file taxes.

One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS' scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers. No doubt they hope that this will one day help them acquire legal status — a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules and come out of the shadows.

What's more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks. Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they'll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the "earnings suspense file" — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus. The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year.

Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children. The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families � most of whom are illegal — are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume.

quote:

Anyone that "over-stays" a visa is in violation of that agreement and therefore in the country fraudulently. If they came in on a vacation visa and got five cents given to them for delivering a newspaper, they are in violation of the law.

Which Law might that be, Michael?

quote:

Because I am a child of divorce and re-marriage, I have three sets of immigrant grandparents. I am well aware of the contributions that naturalized citizens made and make to this country. I am also aware that the illegal ones are essentially, nothing more than a drain.

Essentially, you are wrong, Michael.

And you are not the only one whose grandparents were immigrants. Mine were as well. But that was then, this is now.

It is time for nativists to stop inventing false facts about illegals. But, wishful thinking I fear.


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/29/2013 8:39:20 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

As long as there is a JOB SHORTAGE, the government has no business helping immigrants. During times of JOB SHORTAGE, we need to close our borders. That means not allowing any immigration whatsoever. As a Democrat, I do feel sorry for illegal immigrants that grew up here whose parents are at fault for bringing them here illegally, but we can't afford to help them when there aren't enough jobs for American citizens (who should come first). DURING A JOB SHORTAGE, THE LAST THING AMERICAN CITIZENS NEED IS COMPETITION FROM IMMIGRANTS. When the job shortage ends and there are MORE THAN ENOUGH JOBS FOR EVERYONE, only then should we help illegal immigrants who grew up here and begin to allow LIMITED IMMIGRATION according to number of available jobs.

There is always a job shortage. We never have had truly 100% employment. To think so is to live in a fantasy wonderland. The current Fed is aiming for 6% unemployment as an acceptable level.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/29/2013 9:13:01 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
I've even heard of Mexicans going up to Canada in order to cross into the United States, since our border with Canada is hardly secured at all. I've also heard that some use boats to sneak up the coast and disembark on the U.S. side.

I dont think that is as easy as it once might have been.. Canada requires Mexicans to have a visa to enter Canada now, not just their passport.. And I have heard of Mexicans telling US border guards that they are travelling to Canada and being let in.. where they actually end up, who knows, they could just never make it to Canada or if they try to enter Canada (and for some reason are refused) then the US ends up with them again cuz that is the country of entry to Canada.. and then it is up to the US to send them back to Mexico..

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/29/2013 9:37:29 PM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Since when do illegals pay taxes other than of the sales variety?

By-and-large, illegal aliens work in cash jobs and pay no income tax, what-so-ever. If they did, they would eventually raise a red flag and be arrested.


Sometimes. I've had a few buddies who were "illegal", and what they did was either they borrowed a friend or relative's green card or they had fake papers with, I guess, somebody else's tax ID on them. A lot of bosses don't look too hard at the photo, and I guess the IRS doesn't think it's worth their time to audit how come "Jose Sanchez" is paying taxes for 5 full-time minimum wage jobs.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/29/2013 10:33:25 PM   
EsotericLady


Posts: 713
Joined: 1/2/2013
Status: offline 		A marvelous post that I believe most people are too negative to realize.
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Keep in mind that immigration laws are regulatory, not criminal.

Aliens' living here without status because they over-stayed a visa or crossed the border are generally seeking opportunities and are willing to work hard to support their families. They broke immigration laws not with a malicious intent, but because they are risk-takers willing to take a chance on a better life.

Anyone who is pro-economic growth should be all for giving long-time workers and residents of the USA a legal status. This way they can settle down and begin to invest and built a life in the USA while injecting entrepreneurial energy into the economy.

The alternative would be ripping families apart and billions of dollars spent on forced deportations while depleting the USA of its most vibrant workforce.


(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/29/2013 10:36:29 PM   
EsotericLady


Posts: 713
Joined: 1/2/2013
Status: offline 		Perhaps you could gather a group of your friends with lawn chairs and patrol the boarder until the troops get there? (snickering)
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I suggested that while the US military is prohibited from conducting military operations domistically, they are legally allowed to patrol the border, put all the troops we are no longer using in Iraq and Afghanistan patrolling the border with Mexico, build a better fence, and use the same sensors used by the military to detect movement in a given area and tunneling operations on the border.



(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/29/2013 10:53:44 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EsotericLady

Perhaps you could gather a group of your friends with lawn chairs and patrol the boarder until the troops get there? (snickering)
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I suggested that while the US military is prohibited from conducting military operations domistically, they are legally allowed to patrol the border, put all the troops we are no longer using in Iraq and Afghanistan patrolling the border with Mexico, build a better fence, and use the same sensors used by the military to detect movement in a given area and tunneling operations on the border.






I am allergic to the desert.

Seriously, the Border Patrol Officers who patrol the border with Mexico are stretched thin, even they say so. The government barely cuts the defense budget and drastically cuts the budgets of the agencies that are responsible for securing our borders.

And turning loose a bunch of armed anti immigrant fanatics on the border with Mexico is asking for trouble. Futhermore it is not the citizens duty to secure our border with Mexico, or Canada for that matter, although I cant see a reason that a Canadian would want to sneak into the states except for cheap smokes.

Basically I am suggesting that we use some of the US military to actually secure our borders, isnt that one of the reasons we have a military? Or is the purpose of the military to invade other countries when the mood strikes the president? I am ex army, and when I was in, Ronald Reagan used spec ops units as extensions of the state department, or so it seemed.

_____________________________

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(in reply to EsotericLady)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 4:35:30 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

As long as illegals are doing work that most American born people refuse to do then I say, give them a path to legal status in the country.

The illegals are already here, and most of them are already working. It would actually cost more to even try to deport all of them. And because so many are, in fact, working, as farm laborers, domestics, etc. the impact on the economy overall if we just deported them would actually be negative.

My friend just recently hired a babysitter. Not one of the people who interviewed for the job was American born. Not one. So someone just got hired for a job that an American was unwilling to do. So what is the answer? Deport the person willing to work as a domestic (and thereby force my friend to lose her job, too - she is a divorced mom and needs to continue to work)?? My friend would have gladly hired an American had any applied.....



I would have to wonder where she placed her ads and where she lives. I know a lot of americans who have no problems doing domestic work. Of course I have also heard that americans won't work in hotels as maids and since I worked at one that had a lot of americans also working there, I know that is bullshit.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 5:01:52 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Basically I am suggesting that we use some of the US military to actually secure our borders, isnt that one of the reasons we have a military? Or is the purpose of the military to invade other countries when the mood strikes the president? I am ex army, and when I was in, Ronald Reagan used spec ops units as extensions of the state department, or so it seemed.

Our border with Mexico is 1969 miles long. Then there is access by sea along the Texas and California coasts. How many troops do you need? How much Coast Guard do you require?






Attachment (1)

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 5:12:06 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		A lot more of both than the budget will stretch to, even without the modest military presence that's being squandered in the middle east pissing away the military budget to no good effect...

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 5:16:05 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

FR,

I was the 10th "deport 'em" in the poll. They broke our immigration laws. They go home. While I favor deportation and beefed up border security, I also favor improving the immigration process so that more of them can get here legally, and in a significantly shorter length of time. Improve the rules to reduce the rate of illegal immigration.


So how are you going to collect em up? Door to door search? I thought you were a libertarian thinker.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 5:20:41 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Keep in mind that immigration laws are regulatory, not criminal.

Aliens' living here without status because they over-stayed a visa or crossed the border are generally seeking opportunities and are willing to work hard to support their families. They broke immigration laws not with a malicious intent, but because they are risk-takers willing to take a chance on a better life.

Anyone who is pro-economic growth should be all for giving long-time workers and residents of the USA a legal status. This way they can settle down and begin to invest and built a life in the USA while injecting entrepreneurial energy into the economy.

The alternative would be ripping families apart and billions of dollars spent on forced deportations while depleting the USA of its most vibrant workforce.


Ya got it right. If we don't start inviting immigration we are going to be fucked in about 15-20 years as all the baby boomers head to the old folks home. There certainly aren't enough workers here to not only replace them but also grow the economy.

If we have a consumer economy we best be finding consumers and fast.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 6:23:02 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
FR,
I was the 10th "deport 'em" in the poll. They broke our immigration laws. They go home. While I favor deportation and beefed up border security, I also favor improving the immigration process so that more of them can get here legally, and in a significantly shorter length of time. Improve the rules to reduce the rate of illegal immigration.

So how are you going to collect em up? Door to door search? I thought you were a libertarian thinker.


The same way we are "collecting" them now.

I am a libertarian thinker. You have yet to show you understand what that means.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 6:33:54 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		No such thing as a libertarian thinker. For the most part what I see are right wingers that think cause they are for "freedom" rather than any deviation from the republican talking point.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 6:35:00 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
FR,
I was the 10th "deport 'em" in the poll. They broke our immigration laws. They go home. While I favor deportation and beefed up border security, I also favor improving the immigration process so that more of them can get here legally, and in a significantly shorter length of time. Improve the rules to reduce the rate of illegal immigration.

So how are you going to collect em up? Door to door search? I thought you were a libertarian thinker.


The same way we are "collecting" them now.

I am a libertarian thinker. You have yet to show you understand what that means.


More specifically how are you going to get the illegals that reside in houston texas at this time? again, go door to door?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 7:11:46 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		When are Americans of otherwise normal disposition...going to learn ? Undocumented workers are guess what...a profit center.

[We] want them to pick our fruits, clean our houses, do our laundry, cut our grass, fix our cars, dig our ditches and just about anything else we can think of and ideally...not pay them anything.

Grudgingly, they must be paid just enough to inspire them to come back the next day. Don't we just hate going to HR to ask that they round up a few more undocumented slaves.

As for their contributions to society, who gives a flying fuck ? Again, ideally out of that $3 - $4/hr. I might have to pay, (hopefully, undocumented cash) or whatever...in check form, well aren't they all on 1099 ?

American/western business and the economy (or they for that matter) are not here to serve society but to serve only for-profit interests...similar to the corporation.

The few of the 11 or 12 million who do contribute at least as legally as they can, totals a drop in the bucket compared to the profits made from others' undocumented labor and thus [our] reduced labor costs.

The above is why this has been a 80-90 year success for business and a 50-60 year problem for American labor and why we also, will not get real permanent reform.






(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 7:28:17 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
More specifically how are you going to get the illegals that reside in houston texas at this time? again, go door to door?

They just raided the kiosks at the Galleria (which I thought was an upscale shopping mall) and also the Woodlands mall too.. That musta been fun for all the shoppers as they were buying their high priced scented bath salts..

They caught 13 Israelies.. sheesh, they werent even Mexican.. I didnt know that there were Israeli organized crime gangs in the US.. everyone is into that whole organized gang thing now..
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/ICE-raids-at-Galleria-and-The-Woodlands-Mall-nab-4230091.php

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(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 60
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