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Immigration Reform


Make a way for them to stay
  40% (18)
Don't reward breaking the law, they should be sent home
  55% (25)
no habla ingles, asshat
  4% (2)


Total Votes : 45
(last vote on : 2/6/2013 2:29:02 AM)
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RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 11:13:44 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid
I for one am under current conditions far more interested in cutting down on H1 visas. We have so many unemployed and companies tell us they can't get qualified americans? Now if that isn't wrong, I don't know. That doesn't even require an act of Congress.

You want to cut H1 visas? then you can expect the companies that need tech & STEM workers to set up in other countries (even more than they have been doing cuz they cant get enough approvals for H1 visas).. even foreign students in the US are usually not allowed to stay past their time in school so they are trained but have to go back home, or go to work for Microsoft in Vancouver, Canada.. which is only a few hours away from their Seattle location.. or some similar situation.. Its your loss, quite frankly.. cuz those workers could be contributing to the US economy instead.. but go ahead and cut down on those Visas.. other countries will gladly take that business and workers..


Urban legend and not true at all. Microsoft/Apple or GE or Dupont don't want to hire American Engineers and Technical Graduates cause of wages. Exactly the same as for Bell Canada or Potash Corp. its about wages. They can get them from China or India cheaper.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 11:46:13 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid
I for one am under current conditions far more interested in cutting down on H1 visas. We have so many unemployed and companies tell us they can't get qualified americans? Now if that isn't wrong, I don't know. That doesn't even require an act of Congress.

You want to cut H1 visas? then you can expect the companies that need tech & STEM workers to set up in other countries (even more than they have been doing cuz they cant get enough approvals for H1 visas).. even foreign students in the US are usually not allowed to stay past their time in school so they are trained but have to go back home, or go to work for Microsoft in Vancouver, Canada.. which is only a few hours away from their Seattle location.. or some similar situation.. Its your loss, quite frankly.. cuz those workers could be contributing to the US economy instead.. but go ahead and cut down on those Visas.. other countries will gladly take that business and workers..


Urban legend and not true at all. Microsoft/Apple or GE or Dupont don't want to hire American Engineers and Technical Graduates cause of wages. Exactly the same as for Bell Canada or Potash Corp. its about wages. They can get them from China or India cheaper.

sure they also have subsidiaries in China and India.. and yet..

Microsoft Opens Vancouver Video Game Studio
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/11/29/microsoft-vancouver-video-game-studio-gaming_n_2212950.html

The Vancouver area is a global gateway with a diverse population, is close to Microsoft’s corporate offices in Redmond and allows the company to recruit and retain highly skilled people affected by immigration issues in the U.S.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2007/jul07/07-05msexpandvancouverpr.aspx

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 11:55:49 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

You want to cut H1 visas? then you can expect the companies that need tech & STEM workers to set up in other countries (even more than they have been doing cuz they cant get enough approvals for H1 visas).. even foreign students in the US are usually not allowed to stay past their time in school so they are trained but have to go back home, or go to work for Microsoft in Vancouver, Canada.. which is only a few hours away from their Seattle location.. or some similar situation.. Its your loss, quite frankly.. cuz those workers could be contributing to the US economy instead.. but go ahead and cut down on those Visas.. other countries will gladly take that business and workers..


Let them go. If that is an excuse NOT to hire americans, then I don't want to have those companies in America. I don't want them under our protection. I don't want them to use 'Made in USA'. I want the unpatriotic idiots out of the US. If they think Honey is sweeter elsewhere and they get better protection, let them move.

Those American companies arent gonna leave just cuz you want them to, they are set up to take advantage of whatever situation benefits them (over their competitors) the most.. You simply give them a reason to leave if they cant hire the people they need.. that doesnt mean they wont still have a US presence for those benefits they still have..

come on.. google pays like 2% in tax to the US but they are considered "an American success story".. (insert waving US flag).. even tho they are "offshore" in all sorts of ways..

and its like all those US companies that get their products made in China now,.. you bitch and wanna close the door after the horse has left the barn.. lol

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to meomymaid)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 12:00:57 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911
dont get me wrong,
but i have made a lot of effort not to become " illegal immigrant " but you see in my case i have to stay 5-10 more years in a war zone to become legal.
so i am forced to have some illegal ways to become "illegal immigrant " & hope for the best.
its way much faster that way.
its just my way of view


That is the kind of situation that would be helped by having a more efficient means of getting immigrants in the door legally. Have you looked into refugee/asylum status?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to ashjor911)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 12:06:17 PM   
meomymaid


Posts: 26
Joined: 9/17/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

You want to cut H1 visas? then you can expect the companies that need tech & STEM workers to set up in other countries (even more than they have been doing cuz they cant get enough approvals for H1 visas).. even foreign students in the US are usually not allowed to stay past their time in school so they are trained but have to go back home, or go to work for Microsoft in Vancouver, Canada.. which is only a few hours away from their Seattle location.. or some similar situation.. Its your loss, quite frankly.. cuz those workers could be contributing to the US economy instead.. but go ahead and cut down on those Visas.. other countries will gladly take that business and workers..


Let them go. If that is an excuse NOT to hire americans, then I don't want to have those companies in America. I don't want them under our protection. I don't want them to use 'Made in USA'. I want the unpatriotic idiots out of the US. If they think Honey is sweeter elsewhere and they get better protection, let them move.

Those American companies arent gonna leave just cuz you want them to, they are set up to take advantage of whatever situation benefits them (over their competitors) the most.. You simply give them a reason to leave if they cant hire the people they need.. that doesnt mean they wont still have a US presence for those benefits they still have..

come on.. google pays like 2% in tax to the US but they are considered "an American success story".. (insert waving US flag).. even tho they are "offshore" in all sorts of ways..

and its like all those US companies that get their products made in China now,.. you bitch and wanna close the door after the horse has left the barn.. lol


You make it to easy for yourself. If this was indeed the case, then why use immigration at all? There is the internet and outsourcing or overseas production has been working for a long time. There are companies that want boots on the ground. Setting up an infratsructure somewhere else isn't done overnight either, let alone getting the qualified workforce. Who cares about offshore development centres that have begun downsizing in many areas already. Also, not many countries are very attractive for those highly skilled workers. Just because a company can move somewhere else, doesn't mean the people want to move with them. There is quite a bit more to the argument than taxes.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 12:08:27 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		The kitchen staff of most restaurants are Hispanic. I've seen this include the chef, line cooks, sous chefs, prep guys, dishwashers, etc.

Those prep guys and dishwashers typically speak very little or no English (and many have no interest in learning). From an hourly standpoint, they aren't making a great deal of money, and they are, at many places, making straight cash. However, it often comes out to at least minimum wage. One place I worked, I know those guys were making $600 bucks a week, straight cash, off the books. Sure, many times they were working 80 hours a week, but that still comes out to $7.50 an hour. Since it was off the books, they weren't paying any tax. Considering they were typically single men, yes, they are making enough money that they would be paying income tax.

Do native Americans tend to want these jobs? No. Working 80 hours a week for barely over minimum wage ($7.25) with no overtime is certainly not appealing. But these are jobs that are typically held by people who would be paying income tax. Yes, they are in the lower bracket, but still they would pay.

When it comes to income tax, the IRS isn't interested in how many hours you work, they are only interested in how much you make.

Withholding is based on the number of dependents listed on a W-4, there is no amount where it starts. Someone can make $1,500 a week and if they list enough deductions on their W-4, they aren't going to have taxes taken out. Certainly, if you do it wrong, you will be required to pay when you file your yearly tax, but that isn't what was being talked about.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 1/30/2013 12:11:48 PM >

(in reply to graceadieu)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 12:13:09 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
No such thing as a libertarian thinker. For the most part what I see are right wingers that think cause they are for "freedom" rather than any deviation from the republican talking point.

Like I said, you have yet to show what it means.
So, what "republican talking points" do I completely agree with, that disqualify me from being a libertarian?

DS, you are going to argue you aren't? Education in ohio......we went over the extensively. You read it right from the republican website.....or the labor battle in michigan......name it...you agree with it


LMAO! So, the public union squabble we had about Ohio and the Michigan union squabble we had was nothing but Republican bullshit? Really? Are you going to tell me that Libertarians are never going to agree with Republicans?

Same sex marriage: I have no opposition to allowing it. <--- not a Republican position
Illicit Drugs: Legalize them <--- not a Republican position

And, once again, you have shown that you don't know what a Libertarian stands for.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 12:19:41 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid
There is quite a bit more to the argument than taxes.

Of course there is more than taxes.. but if they cant hire US trained grads that happen to be non-American cuz there is a limit to the H1 visas and you want to cut that back even more, then they will find other means to hire the people they need even if they have to move them outside the US..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to meomymaid)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 12:53:50 PM   
meomymaid


Posts: 26
Joined: 9/17/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid
There is quite a bit more to the argument than taxes.

Of course there is more than taxes.. but if they cant hire US trained grads that happen to be non-American cuz there is a limit to the H1 visas and you want to cut that back even more, then they will find other means to hire the people they need even if they have to move them outside the US..

Who is 'they'? I don't think you followed my argument. Or since when is WIPRO a US based company, with convictions of visa fraud.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 1:19:07 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid
There is quite a bit more to the argument than taxes.

Of course there is more than taxes.. but if they cant hire US trained grads that happen to be non-American cuz there is a limit to the H1 visas and you want to cut that back even more, then they will find other means to hire the people they need even if they have to move them outside the US..

Who is 'they'? I don't think you followed my argument. Or since when is WIPRO a US based company, with convictions of visa fraud.

the "they" I am referring to are US started/based companies like (as I have already mentioned) Microsoft, google, etc, companies that hire their own people (legally)..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to meomymaid)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 1:29:34 PM   
meomymaid


Posts: 26
Joined: 9/17/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

the "they" I am referring to are US started/based companies like (as I have already mentioned) Microsoft, google, etc, companies that hire their own people (legally)..

And I excluded those companies in my original post.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 1:30:51 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid
I for one am under current conditions far more interested in cutting down on H1 visas. We have so many unemployed and companies tell us they can't get qualified americans? Now if that isn't wrong, I don't know. That doesn't even require an act of Congress.

You want to cut H1 visas? then you can expect the companies that need tech & STEM workers to set up in other countries (even more than they have been doing cuz they cant get enough approvals for H1 visas).. even foreign students in the US are usually not allowed to stay past their time in school so they are trained but have to go back home, or go to work for Microsoft in Vancouver, Canada.. which is only a few hours away from their Seattle location.. or some similar situation.. Its your loss, quite frankly.. cuz those workers could be contributing to the US economy instead.. but go ahead and cut down on those Visas.. other countries will gladly take that business and workers..


Urban legend and not true at all. Microsoft/Apple or GE or Dupont don't want to hire American Engineers and Technical Graduates cause of wages. Exactly the same as for Bell Canada or Potash Corp. its about wages. They can get them from China or India cheaper.

sure they also have subsidiaries in China and India.. and yet..

Microsoft Opens Vancouver Video Game Studio
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/11/29/microsoft-vancouver-video-game-studio-gaming_n_2212950.html

The Vancouver area is a global gateway with a diverse population, is close to Microsoft’s corporate offices in Redmond and allows the company to recruit and retain highly skilled people affected by immigration issues in the U.S.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2007/jul07/07-05msexpandvancouverpr.aspx


Proves my point. They go there to get CHEAP labor. Plenty of graduates coming out of the US or Canadian Universities.....They simply can pay an Indian Engineer 40% less.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 1:32:59 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
No such thing as a libertarian thinker. For the most part what I see are right wingers that think cause they are for "freedom" rather than any deviation from the republican talking point.

Like I said, you have yet to show what it means.
So, what "republican talking points" do I completely agree with, that disqualify me from being a libertarian?

DS, you are going to argue you aren't? Education in ohio......we went over the extensively. You read it right from the republican website.....or the labor battle in michigan......name it...you agree with it


LMAO! So, the public union squabble we had about Ohio and the Michigan union squabble we had was nothing but Republican bullshit? Really? Are you going to tell me that Libertarians are never going to agree with Republicans?

Same sex marriage: I have no opposition to allowing it. <--- not a Republican position
Illicit Drugs: Legalize them <--- not a Republican position

And, once again, you have shown that you don't know what a Libertarian stands for.


OK you win, I don't know. Doesn't matter. Republicans are Libertarians and Libertarians are Republicans.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 3:39:19 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

the "they" I am referring to are US started/based companies like (as I have already mentioned) Microsoft, google, etc, companies that hire their own people (legally)..

And I excluded those companies in my original post.

no you didnt.. you were talking about H1 visas which microsoft etc have had problems getting for as many workers as they want to hire..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to meomymaid)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 3:51:54 PM   
meomymaid


Posts: 26
Joined: 9/17/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

the "they" I am referring to are US started/based companies like (as I have already mentioned) Microsoft, google, etc, companies that hire their own people (legally)..

And I excluded those companies in my original post.

no you didnt.. you were talking about H1 visas which microsoft etc have had problems getting for as many workers as they want to hire..

Go back and read. I explicitly mentioned Apple and 3rd party consulting agencies. I excluded research and manufacturing.

This is why female subs just HATE Doms. Twisting the argument all the time, no matter how wrong they are.
They just HAVE to be right. Useless people.

< Message edited by meomymaid -- 1/30/2013 3:53:51 PM >

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 4:05:46 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid
This is why female subs just HATE Doms. Twisting the argument all the time, no matter how wrong they are.
They just HAVE to be right. Useless people.


Meomymaid, do you work in public relations, by any chance?

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to meomymaid)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 4:06:47 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Proves my point. They go there to get CHEAP labor. Plenty of graduates coming out of the US or Canadian Universities.....They simply can pay an Indian Engineer 40% less.

Not for jobs in the US or Canada they dont.. its about the skill and knowledge these workers have.. its not like picking fruit (which any able bodied person can do)..

Brad Smith, Microsoft's general counsel and executive vice president, said at a press briefing that the lack of qualified job applicants is "approaching the dimensions of a genuine crisis" for tech companies.

He said Microsoft has 3,400 open jobs for researchers, developers and engineers — an increase of 34 percent over last year.

"We fear jobs will start to migrate to other countries," Smith said, adding that other countries are putting a higher priority than the United States on preparing students for high-skill jobs.

Microsoft will push Congress to pass legislation to invest hundreds of millions of dollars to improve education in science, technology, engineering and math, fields collectively known as STEM.

He insisted that even small start-ups would be willing to spend the thousands of dollars to hire qualified foreign workers. He also said Microsoft does not pay workers differently based on their nationality.
"The skill gap is one of the biggest problems Microsoft faces," Smith said.

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/258985-microsoft-lack-of-tech-workers-approaching-genuine-crisis

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 4:17:27 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid

Go back and read. I explicitly mentioned Apple and 3rd party consulting agencies. I excluded research and manufacturing.

This is why female subs just HATE Doms. Twisting the argument all the time, no matter how wrong they are.
They just HAVE to be right. Useless people.

you only mentioned apple after I responded to your original post on this thread and not to me..

I dont state on my profile I am a Dom btw..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to meomymaid)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 4:17:34 PM   
meomymaid


Posts: 26
Joined: 9/17/2012
Status: offline 		Microsoft Corporation has filed 38001 labor condition applications for H1B visa and 13301 labor certifications for green card since 2001. During fiscal year 2011-2012, it filed 15414 labor petitions. Microsoft was ranked 2 among all visa sponsors. Please contact Carla Weitkamp, Attorney, or others for job opportunities and visa sponsorship policies.



< Message edited by meomymaid -- 1/30/2013 4:19:12 PM >

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Immigration Reform - 1/30/2013 4:24:52 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meomymaid

Microsoft Corporation has filed 38001 labor condition applications for H1B visa and 13301 labor certifications for green card since 2001. During fiscal year 2011-2012, it filed 15414 labor petitions. Microsoft was ranked 2 among all visa sponsors. Please contact Carla Weitkamp, Attorney, or others for job opportunities and visa sponsorship policies.

So? that proves what?

Note: Above table reports Labor Condition Application(LCA) and Labor Certification(LC) filed by Microsoft Corporation for H1B visa and green card. The data only indicates the number of applications filed by Microsoft Corporation. It does not mean that Microsoft Corporation actually got the visa and hired the workers.
Department of Labor(DOL) typically certifies more than 3 times the number of foreign work requests than the number of H1B visas issued by USCIS. So there is no one to one relationship between the number of workers certified by the DOL and the number of H1B work visas issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS).

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to meomymaid)
Profile   Post #: 100
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