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immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 3:32:30 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		What happened to JOBS JOBS JOBS? Why does the government want to give illegals a path to citizenship right now during a job shortage? American citizens should come first and there's too much competition for jobs as it is. Why make it worse?

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 3:36:35 PM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Why should American citizens come first here in the UK?

Yes, yes . . . I know.

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 3:41:28 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Why should American citizens come first here in the UK?

Yes, yes . . . I know.



Who in the fuck is saying that Americans should come first in the UK?

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 3:43:42 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What happened to JOBS JOBS JOBS? Why does the government want to give illegals a path to citizenship right now during a job shortage? American citizens should come first and there's too much competition for jobs as it is. Why make it worse?


In Yakima (a small town east of Seattle) they grow apples, among other things.

Washington State apples are one of the largest fruit exports this country has.

Two years ago the federalis came in and sent all the Hispanics away. They actually got paid well, either by piece work or hourly, it came out to a smidge over $12.00 an hour.

Not all that spectacular if you live in downtown Chicago or Manhattan, but not too shabby in a town where a house sells for 70 grand.

The farmers were concerned naturally because who would pick the apples?

They raised the wages 30% the next year (and charged more for apples).

The result:

70% of the replacements that came in to take the jobs quit after the first few days and 30% of the crop rotted on the ground.

In my firm, 60% of the workers are Hispanics (all legal) and they're the hardest working motherfuckers I've ever hired.

Want people to hire more Americans?

Work as hard as Mexicans do.

Do that and employers will CREATE jobs for you.

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 4:33:00 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Who in the fuck is saying that Americans should come first in the UK?


The OP did. Read it again. 'The government' implies the British government, doesn't it? It must do. Of course it does.

You still don't get the frigging point, do you, JLF?



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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 4:35:48 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		They are already here, and most of them are already working. It would actually cost more to even try to deport all of them. And because so many are, in fact, working, as farm laborers, domestics, etc. the impact on the economy overall if we just deported them would actually be negative.

My friend just recently hired a babysitter. Not one of the people who interviewed for the job was American born. Not one. So someone just got hired for a job that an American was unwilling to do. So what is the answer? Deport the person willing to work as a domestic (and thereby force my friend to lose her job, too - she is a divorced mom and needs to continue to work)?? My friend would have gladly hired an American had any applied.....

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 4:39:07 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		I was talking about the US in my first post. The point is, a country's citizens should come first in that country. In the UK, citizens of the UK should come first, in the US, US citizens should come first, and so on....

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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 4:42:10 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Why should American citizens come first here in the UK?

Yes, yes . . . I know.



Who in the fuck is saying that Americans should come first in the UK?


Humour with a U.

To the OP......... Frankly I dont see those immigrants already living here and working should be sanctioned against in the jobs queue. I do think when times are hard people wanting to work here should be limited to jobs that cant be filled by those already here.

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 4:49:51 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Our government quit reserving the bottom rung of the labor ladder exclusively for citizens about... Oh, 400 years ago.
Slave labor built the Southern cotton/tobacco trade, Asian labor built the railroads, etc.

More specifically, immigration laws were structured to provide a steady supply of non-citizen and primariliy Hispanic agriculural and other labors when California built its agri industry using campesinos.

No administration since the 1930s has disturbed this balance. Why the sudden squawking now that Obama has deported record numbers and provided a plan to enforce a legal workforce?


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I was talking about the US in my first post. The point is, a country's citizens should come first in that country. In the UK, citizens of the UK should come first, in the US, US citizens should come first, and so on....



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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 6:23:57 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What happened to JOBS JOBS JOBS? Why does the government want to give illegals a path to citizenship right now during a job shortage? American citizens should come first and there's too much competition for jobs as it is. Why make it worse?


Really, does it make much of a difference when erstwhile Americans' jobs are being shunted abroad where much cheaper labour can be found? Just the free market in action, isn't it?

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 7:11:52 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What happened to JOBS JOBS JOBS? Why does the government want to give illegals a path to citizenship right now during a job shortage? American citizens should come first and there's too much competition for jobs as it is. Why make it worse?

Ya know, President Obama can handle more than one issue at a time - it's called 'multitasking'. Immigration reform IS a serious issue in light of the ongoing stampede across our borders, and since that will be easier to solve than JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, it stands to reason he'd tackle it to get something moving.

As for JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, the only real answer is to bring the jobs home from China by requiring manufactured goods sold in the USA to be made in the USA, and you can imagine what the odds on that are.

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 7:47:41 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
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Status: offline 		To the Op. It's called votes, votes, votes...Nothing else matters,,

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 8:46:23 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

To the Op. It's called votes, votes, votes...Nothing else matters,,

exactly.. which is why the Rs are now wanting to jump on the bandwagon, cuz Obama got the majority of the Hispanic vote.. of course, that was one of his promises so now he has to do it (he should have done that in his first term tho).. Now he doesnt have much choice if he wants pave the way for the Ds to win the next election..

And too, the public opinion has swung more into wanting immigration reform and finding a way to allow basically law-abiding illegals to become legal..

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 8:47:48 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

As for JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, the only real answer is to bring the jobs home from China by requiring manufactured goods sold in the USA to be made in the USA, and you can imagine what the odds on that are.

In a FREE nation the government cannot require manufacturers to make their goods in a specific location. Nor can the government require consumers to purchase goods only made in America. The only mechanism available to Congress would be to impose Tariffs on imported goods. Can you imagine what that would do to companies like Nike and Apple?? It would rock the stock markets just like the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act did in 1931. Get real, please.

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 8:58:10 PM   
HarryVanWinkle


Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

As for JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, the only real answer is to bring the jobs home from China by requiring manufactured goods sold in the USA to be made in the USA, and you can imagine what the odds on that are.

In a FREE nation the government cannot require manufacturers to make their goods in a specific location. Nor can the government require consumers to purchase goods only made in America. The only mechanism available to Congress would be to impose Tariffs on imported goods. Can you imagine what that would do to companies like Nike and Apple?? It would rock the stock markets just like the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act did in 1931. Get real, please.


The Smoot Hawley Act did a lot more than rock the stock market. It, and the retaliatory tariffs that followed it did a great deal to sink the entire world into the Great Depression.

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 9:16:46 PM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

The farmers were concerned naturally because who would pick the apples?

They raised the wages 30% the next year (and charged more for apples).

The result:

70% of the replacements that came in to take the jobs quit after the first few days and 30% of the crop rotted on the ground.


From what I've read, the same thing happened in Alabama and Arizona when they got strict on immigration.

I think any good immigration reform should include making it easier for people to get seasonal work permits to do farm labor (and have a path to permanent residency through that). I think that should, ideally, both help American farms and cut down on illegal immigration (since most people would rather be here legally than illegally).

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 10:11:23 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What happened to JOBS JOBS JOBS? Why does the government want to give illegals a path to citizenship right now during a job shortage? American citizens should come first and there's too much competition for jobs as it is. Why make it worse?


Really, does it make much of a difference when erstwhile Americans' jobs are being shunted abroad where much cheaper labour can be found? Just the free market in action, isn't it?



No kidding! Why can a brit see that little problem and not the idiots in Washington?

Maybe we should have an advisory panel of average brits armed with cricket bats to beat some sense into the politicians.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 10:20:46 PM   
EsotericLady


Posts: 713
Joined: 1/2/2013
Status: offline 		I've seen this firsthand, and Lookie is right! They work incredibly hard!

They will also do work that Americans refuse to do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Want people to hire more Americans?

Work as hard as Mexicans do.

Do that and employers will CREATE jobs for you.


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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/29/2013 10:24:07 PM   
Aynne88


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Have you not seen the housing and construction on the rise? Unemployment falling? Stock market up? There are jobs if you want them and will do them, we are definitely seeing signs of a positive change in New England.

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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
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RE: immigration reform during a job shortage - 1/30/2013 1:34:57 AM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

As for JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, the only real answer is to bring the jobs home from China by requiring manufactured goods sold in the USA to be made in the USA, and you can imagine what the odds on that are.

In a FREE nation the government cannot require manufacturers to make their goods in a specific location. Nor can the government require consumers to purchase goods only made in America. The only mechanism available to Congress would be to impose Tariffs on imported goods. Can you imagine what that would do to companies like Nike and Apple?? It would rock the stock markets just like the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act did in 1931. Get real, please.

Yeah, well, you have to stop to ask 'how free is too free?' If the US government can't set such basic and obvious economic policy as this, then are we a nation any more, or just a 'geographical coincidence'? Just because Wall Street doesn't like it doesn't make it wrong.

The price of a product has to reflect its cost to society: Walmart may be cheaper, but when you factor in lost economic vitality, lost tax base, deferred maintenance of infrastructure, etc etc etc, it actually costs a whole lot more.

As for Nike, Apple, et al, they would be allowed a transition period to build new factories and train workers, since we don't have the economic base to produce even the goods we use now. This has happened before: back in the 70s, the C & O railroad testified before Congress that they had to import rail and car wheels because they couldn't find any domestic suppliers. That's not the case today, and the railroads are thriving.

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