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RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 4:43:46 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

My point exactly once you start eroding a right prtty soon there is nothing left of it. And that is the real world.


So you don't believe in moving with the times; evolution etc? To change anything only amounts to "erosion"? Cos my "real world" is about evolving (including the law), even when it's not always for the individual best. Learning from mistakes of the past etc.

In 1902, there was a statute here requiring anyone wishing to drive a "horseless carriage" in a town's main street to have an adult walk 25ft in front carrying a red lantern (presumably to avoid startling horses). I know this because it's one of many long since redundant laws recently repealed and made for an amusing story in the newspaper.

To me, you just continue to make the same flawed argument that you don't fix anything when it's broken. That's living in denial - some "real world"....

Focus.

Nope I just don't believe in change for the sake of change;
we have a sying " If it ain't broke don't fix it" the Constitution isn't broke.
Until 2001 interacial marrage was againt the Alabama Constitution and thus (although unenforced) illegal, I voted for the repeal of that clause, it was broke so we fixed it.


maybe the constitution isn't broken, but maybe it needs ammending? It is quite old after all......

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the UK use, rather than a Constitution a body of precedent dating back over 500 years?

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RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 4:53:20 PM   
deathtothepixies


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Status: offline 		I have no idea, if it does then firstly it's because our laws are older than yours and secondly they have evolved, or should I say been ammended as time passed. I am sure we still have laws here about people having rights to herd sheep across bridges etc but that's not really the point is it?

Things that don't evolve have a tendancy to die

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RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 5:08:08 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

I have no idea, if it does then firstly it's because our laws are older than yours and secondly they have evolved, or should I say been ammended as time passed. I am sure we still have laws here about people having rights to herd sheep across bridges etc but that's not really the point is it?

Things that don't evolve have a tendancy to die

It is just really odd for a person from the UK teling us that our laws are too old normally Brits tell us about how their system is so much older and wiser and how since we are relativly new we should listen to them and do it their way.
We have a saying down here usually reserved for people up north. I don't care how they do it where you come from.

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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 5:16:30 PM   
deathtothepixies


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Status: offline 		fine and dandy then, as you were.
Seems we don't have any common ground and nothing will change except the number of guns, oh and dead bodies

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RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 5:21:22 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

I have no idea, if it does then firstly it's because our laws are older than yours and secondly they have evolved, or should I say been ammended as time passed. I am sure we still have laws here about people having rights to herd sheep across bridges etc but that's not really the point is it?

Things that don't evolve have a tendancy to die

It is just really odd for a person from the UK teling us that our laws are too old normally Brits tell us about how their system is so much older and wiser and how since we are relativly new we should listen to them and do it their way.
We have a saying down here usually reserved for people up north. I don't care how they do it where you come from.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-oqfPojhec

We already have common ground.......we(the normal-non-NRA types) just need to make sure the rightists don`t back peddle and or start lying again.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 5:29:53 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It is just really odd for a person from the UK teling us that our laws are too old normally Brits tell us about how their system is so much older and wiser and how since we are relativly new we should listen to them and do it their way.
We have a saying down here usually reserved for people up north. I don't care how they do it where you come from.


We don't have a written constitution in the UK, Bama, as you probably know. I'd like for there to be one - but, it has to be said, one of the arguments against our having one is that it could become "fetishised". That is, people could come to give it far more respect - to the point of unquestioning awe - than it deserves.

Things change over time and have done so, especially, in the last two centuries. We've had a much more condensed dose of change since 1781 than ever before. The Founding Fathers of the USA weren't idiots - but they were still ordinary humans. Transported by time machine to the present day - they wouldn't even recognise the world as it is now.

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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 5:39:15 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It is just really odd for a person from the UK teling us that our laws are too old normally Brits tell us about how their system is so much older and wiser and how since we are relativly new we should listen to them and do it their way.
We have a saying down here usually reserved for people up north. I don't care how they do it where you come from.

We don't have a written constitution in the UK, Bama, as you probably know. I'd like for there to be one - but, it has to be said, one of the arguments against our having one is that it could become "fetishised". That is, people could come to give it far more respect - to the point of unquestioning awe - than it deserves.

Things change over time and have done so, especially, in the last two centuries. We've had a much more condensed dose of change since 1781 than ever before. The Founding Fathers of the USA weren't idiots - but they were still ordinary humans. Transported by time machine to the present day - they wouldn't even recognise the world as it is now.

And they would start another revolution. We have made changes, We just haven't made all of them you would like to see. Gaurentees are not till it is inconveniant. If we wanted to be you we could have been.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 2/5/2013 5:46:29 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 5:45:19 PM   
BamaD


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Status: offline 		Common ground is not us saying yes sir.

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RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 6:01:24 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Common ground is not us saying yes sir.


Bama, that isn't acceptable. It isn't just you who says things similar, some other Americans here do, too. It's like you all want just everything: not only status as the richest of English-speakers and the most powerful, you also want the lion's share of status as 'downtrodden'. Well, despite Hollywood's ongoing insistence that every megalomaniac ultra-evil super-villain on the planet is British or at least speaks with a Brit accent . . . it's not so.

Americans can't play 'bullied' by Brits anymore. You just don't get to have that as well as everything else you have.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 2/5/2013 6:02:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 6:14:58 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		There are some "Americans" who don`t think traffic/tax/gun/environmental laws don`t apply to them......selfish cowards.....


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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 6:15:49 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Common ground is not us saying yes sir.


Bama, that isn't acceptable. It isn't just you who says things similar, some other Americans here do, too. It's like you all want just everything: not only status as the richest of English-speakers and the most powerful, you also want the lion's share of status as 'downtrodden'. Well, despite Hollywood's ongoing insistence that every megalomaniac ultra-evil super-villain on the planet is British or at least speaks with a Brit accent . . . it's not so.

Americans can't play 'bullied' by Brits anymore. You just don't get to have that as well as everything else you have.

I don't claim to be bullied by the Brits, far from it. As far as Hollywood is concered it's a phase not to long ago the villans all had southern accents but Hoolywood decided that southerners weren't smart enough to be super villans and Brits sound cool. Besides blacks hispanics and arabs are pretty much off limits. Your post sounds more like envy than anythig else.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 2/5/2013 6:16:37 PM >

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RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 7:08:11 PM   
YN


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

I have no idea, if it does then firstly it's because our laws are older than yours and secondly they have evolved, or should I say been ammended as time passed. I am sure we still have laws here about people having rights to herd sheep across bridges etc but that's not really the point is it?

Things that don't evolve have a tendancy to die

It is just really odd for a person from the UK teling us that our laws are too old normally Brits tell us about how their system is so much older and wiser and how since we are relativly new we should listen to them and do it their way.
We have a saying down here usually reserved for people up north. I don't care how they do it where you come from.



I too laugh when I see the English making such statements regarding the age of their constitutional system or the age of the United States constitution and how that such age (or lack of it) is a virtue necessarily making it a better scheme.

The Corpus Juris Civilis (Roman law) that the majority of the Americas and Europe (and the Russians, and others use variants of, as China and Japan) is far older then the English laws, (Emperor Justinian ordered the last revision during the 6th century) and nobody thinks that makes the Roman system any better or worse.

Of course Iraq must having the ultimate nationalistic bragging rights since Hammurabi published his code there before any other known one elsewhere.

Perhaps the Spanish, Italians, Germans, and French etc. should remind the English of the matter, when the EU gets into full operation Roman laws will be the laws of Europe, not the common law of England.

But the United States of America was a hybrid of Roman and English common law principles which have since been incorporated into other systems, the idea of a supreme court; of a supreme written charter of rights and limits; of a separation of powers among the legislative, judicial, and executive arms; and many other principles have been taken from their North American nursery and used by or have greatly influenced both the English empire and the Roman law nations.

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RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 8:17:27 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Common ground is not us saying yes sir.


Bama, that isn't acceptable. It isn't just you who says things similar, some other Americans here do, too. It's like you all want just everything: not only status as the richest of English-speakers and the most powerful, you also want the lion's share of status as 'downtrodden'. Well, despite Hollywood's ongoing insistence that every megalomaniac ultra-evil super-villain on the planet is British or at least speaks with a Brit accent . . . it's not so.

Americans can't play 'bullied' by Brits anymore. You just don't get to have that as well as everything else you have.



sure they can until your qeenie comes up with a declaration that after confirmation that britain having sole interest destroys all right title and interest [insert sat coordinates here] in of for the americas. the pope has his mits into this one too.

never happen ever, unless you piss the us off to the point they nuke you off the planet, then try and prove your titles.



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RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 8:21:49 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

Seems we don't have any common ground...

Lucky us!

For assaults, the UK ranks 2nd in the world, the U.S. ranks 9th; for rape, the UK ranks 6th, the U.S. 13th; and for total crime victims the UK ranks 3rd, the U.S. 15th.

Assault Victims by Country
Rape Victims by Country
Total Crime Victims by Country

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 2/5/2013 8:34:37 PM >

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RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 11:38:15 PM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

Seems we don't have any common ground...

Lucky us!

For assaults, the UK ranks 2nd in the world, the U.S. ranks 9th; for rape, the UK ranks 6th, the U.S. 13th; and for total crime victims the UK ranks 3rd, the U.S. 15th.

Assault Victims by Country
Rape Victims by Country
Total Crime Victims by Country

K.



Really?? you better re check your links the Total Crime shows the US at number #1 with 11, 877, 218 and the UK at #2 with a total of 6,523, 706. Then there is the UNDOC report for 2012 that shows the US crime rate at 4.8 per 100, 000 and the UK at 1.2 per 100,000

http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes&b_map=1

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RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 11:43:35 PM   
Kirata


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ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Really?? you better re check your links the Total Crime shows the US at number #1 with 11, 877, 218 and the UK at #2 with a total of 6,523, 706.

The links are fine, thank you. The detail you fail to realize in citing those numbers is that not all countries are the same size.

Shocking, I know. But honest, it's true.

K.

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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 11:47:56 PM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Really?? you better re check your links the Total Crime shows the US at number #1 with 11, 877, 218 and the UK at #2 with a total of 6,523, 706.

The links are fine, thank you. The detail you fail to realize in citing those numbers is that not all countries are the same size.

Shocking, I know. But honest, it's true.

K.


That is on a per capita bases so it petty much equal...

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/5/2013 11:56:48 PM   
JeffBC


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Status: offline 		I'll add the most pressing reason for me personally on this list.

I feel my own government is the most dangerous, aggressive, and outright evil government in the world today.
So that obviously makes me feel a bit differently about personal security. The idea that the cops are going to protect me seems rather quaint at best. I more expect them to harm me. The old thing about "If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" never carried much water with me. But nowadays I can absolutely get behind, "If the government outlaws guns then only the government will have them." and THAT terrifies me.

Given the popularity ratings of the US government among it's own citizenry I feel confident in saying I'm not entirely alone with that sentiment.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 158
RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/6/2013 12:01:42 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

you better re check your links the Total Crime shows the US at number #1 with 11, 877, 218

The detail you fail to realize in citing those numbers is that not all countries are the same size.

That is on a per capita bases so it petty much equal...

Oh, I see... 11,877,218 crimes per capita in the U.S.

Yes, that's shocking. I stand corrected.

K.

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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: In an effort to find some common ground. - 2/6/2013 12:30:02 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I'll add the most pressing reason for me personally on this list.

I feel my own government is the most dangerous, aggressive, and outright evil government in the world today.
So that obviously makes me feel a bit differently about personal security. The idea that the cops are going to protect me seems rather quaint at best. I more expect them to harm me. The old thing about "If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" never carried much water with me. But nowadays I can absolutely get behind, "If the government outlaws guns then only the government will have them." and THAT terrifies me.

Given the popularity ratings of the US government among it's own citizenry I feel confident in saying I'm not entirely alone with that sentiment.

The Black Panthers had the when guns are outlawed only the cops will have guns bumper sticker in the 60s.

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Profile   Post #: 160
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