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RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 5:53:30 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Cant' some people - sometime, keep their thoughts to themselves - if they think it might be especially hurtful?-Susan

Well, one point is that people are too sensitive.  That they ask for "advice" when what they really want is sympathy.  That they can't separate "agreeing" with "liking."  That they don't understand the process of seeing things from different perspectives because they are so caught up in their own one situation.  So reasonable responses can be perceived as being especially hurtful.

Another point is that sometimes the truth hurts.  Very few people post callously with intent to harm.  And the ones who do are pretty consistent and easy to spot.  Everyone else is INTENDING to inject some measure of perspective, give some real life advice, and give their idea of what needs to happen- which can be a difficult thing to communicate.

Since YOU will likely one day soon be on the other end of this sort of a conversation, and someone will be telling YOU that you are just being a big meanie, when you really are just trying to share your own perspective, it's good to develop a thicker skin and allow for good intentions to carry you along.

Also realize that this is the internet- it's ten times easier to give advice about someone else's situation than it is to take advice about your own.

This isn't a fluffy bunny sit around the campfire and be sissies together forum.  This is a discussion forum.  Anything that gets posted can and will be brutally examined on every level and perspective- and rarely ever is it with intent to be a meanie or harmful.  In fact, most of the time people try to be sensitive and convey their ideas in a way that will be received positively. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 241
RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 5:53:49 AM   
incognitobynight


Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Of course, the "complainers" don't see it as such, to them it's a matter of opening up their hearts to air out wounds they've recieved. Here we have two groups of people (yes, a vast generalization), they see things differently, and I feel it unlikely that such a divide will ever be breached, much less on the boards here.

I think if this thread had started in the Off Topic board (as it surely has zero to do with dominance or submission), or had been started with the intent of "We're just venting and wanting to know if other people are going through this so we can commiserate together" I think the thread would have taken a very different turn.

As it was, the thread was started to ask about others in the situation AND for advice on how to deal with it.

We are all ultimately responsible for ourselves and only ourselves.  As much as we go on about authority transfer, WE are still responsible for following orders.  We ultimately can only choose what works best for us- and this is actually the best "gift" I think we have in life. 


Lucky Albatross,

I tend to disagree with you on the BDSM aspect of this not being relevant.  I sometimes wonder if my situation never would have occurred had I not been a newbie sub so damned eager to please.  I couldn't see the forest for the trees.  It may have NOTHING to do with it.....but I have often wondered if it played a role in my poor judgement. 

With regard to studies, seminars on this topic, yeah, I would be interested in some information on that.  Thank you.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 242
RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 6:10:11 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: incognitobynight
I tend to disagree with you on the BDSM aspect of this not being relevant.  I sometimes wonder if my situation never would have occurred had I not been a newbie sub so damned eager to please.  I couldn't see the forest for the trees.  It may have NOTHING to do with it.....but I have often wondered if it played a role in my poor judgement. 

With regard to studies, seminars on this topic, yeah, I would be interested in some information on that.  Thank you.

Your issue was with being eager to please, not with being a submissive.  Doms and vanillas are often eager to please as well.

Trust me, dominants go through guilt problems when knowing that their sub isn't giving them what they need but not able to end the relationship anyway.

And vanillas go through this ALL the time also.

It's a relationship/guilt issue, not a Ds issue.

I'll start you off with a great listing here:
http://mason.gmu.edu/~montecin/cyberbiblio.htm

My suggestions are:
Turkle, Sherry. The second self: computers and the human spirit. New York : Simon and Schuster, 1984. 

Abbate, Janet. Inventing the Internet. Cambridge: MIT Press, 1999 

Cherny, Lynn and Elizabeth Reba Weise, eds. Wired Women: Gender and New Realities in Cyberspace. Seal Pr Feminist Pub, 1996 (ISBN: 1878067737) 

Landow, George, ed. Hyper/Text/Theory. Baltimore; London : Johns Hopkins University Press, 1994 

I haven't read this one yet, but I've heard nothing but good things about it:
Dery, Mark. Flame Wars : The Discourse of Cyberculture, Duke Univ Pr , 1994.(ISBN: 0822315408)



_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to incognitobynight)
Profile   Post #: 243
RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 6:27:36 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I was in a long marriage with a regular sex life until my husbands death...despite not being happy overall, sex was not a problem at all for either of us. We were attracted to each other physically and both had sex drives that obviously were fairly complimentary. Also I had a lot of respect for him , as a person......but we were not compatable and both of us were in a relationship and situation that we'd made together and we both tried to make it work in various ways, including councelling. We both found it that helpful...........but frankly, the incompatabilies were such that we were trying to fix the unfixable. We had children and a life and both wanted it to work but often the efforts we made were against our own natures, so didn't last.

It can take  LOTS of time to realise that a situation isn't one you can live with indefinately, it can take YEARS of trying different options, of giving them time to work, being patient, and in between, switching off from it all, because it's emotional tiring to be IN that situation.

I can fully understand how people stay in relationships that aren't satisfying overall; there can be enough good parts in between to weigh against leaving and you can get USED to the *way things are*. It take a lot of energy to galvanise yourself into taking stock and making a decision to change things so completely.

I think the posters in the sexless relationships were EXPLAINING or expressing their situations/reasons/feelings...........they didn't appear to me to be whining or asking for sympathy or justifying.

As many people have said, staying in a relationship which is causing unhappiness is ultimately our own responsibility...mine was my responsibility.....I can still speak of it, explain or express......all without justifying,whining or from a desire for sympathy.

agirl





< Message edited by agirl -- 6/22/2006 6:30:11 AM >

(in reply to sskitten)
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RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 6:41:28 AM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		Wow...some interesting twists and turns from the OP!!!

I think Level put it best...things don't get solved on a thread like this. However, it was interesting to see the vast array of responses. The OP asked if anyone had been in the same situation, and it appears Susan and Incognito have been. Therefore, since they've lived it...their responses were highly regarded by my friend.

As far as the advice I give her (my friend)...is to be happy, no matter what that means to her. Leaving, staying a while longer, finding a lover, open marriage...etc. For the last 2 years, she hasn't even wanted to have sex with her spouse because he has hurt her too much with that issue....furthermore,  he is unable to open up emotionally and that is the icing on the cake. She maintains that she will never marry again.

Thanks
Irish


_____________________________


What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller


(in reply to incognitobynight)
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RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 6:54:33 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah I am making too big a deal out of it. I actually was not referring to myself although I was pretty mad last night, (and still this morning) It's stupid. Plus it doesn't really "work". I am not the kind of person who (normally - gosh ever) just walks away from a thread. Sorry. I do - 99% of the time - make an  effort to be nice to other people - even if I disagree with them. I have to be pushed real, real hard to get very angry. For the life of me I don't see what is so hard about this for some other people. I can see expressing an opinion - what's with the accompanying apparent need to be seen as God, or something, after expressing it? Is it really that important?

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/22/2006 6:55:46 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 7:01:37 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
what's with the accompanying apparent need to be seen as God, or something, after expressing it? Is it really that important?

- Susan

You started a thread on this last night (which I didn't see until I'd posted this).

You're the one throwing around the insulting names and using the unnecessary foul language.  Why is it that your behavior is ok and not at all exactly the behavior you're so up against here?

Erin had it completely pegged in her post.

*The 5000th post*

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 7:17:55 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I've been in a sexless marriage with a partner who wanted no part of an open marriage and who kept finding different medical reasons for it. I cheated...until I could not stand myself for being dishonest. I left. Suddenly, her sex drive came back. Seeing that, I moved back. Oddly enough, it went away again. I left for good. So, I've been there, done that. As I said in my original post, the person in question in the original post has a difficult decision to make. But it's way past time to do it. So now...am I judgmental? Well...so are we all, in something.



Hello!!!!

Don't you think your partner was manipulating then?!

I mean, no sex drive, sex drive to get you back, then no sex drive again?!

~chuckles~ Oh yeah, I knew I was being manipulated soon after I went back.  My words above ...the "oddly enough"... are meant to be sarcastic in nature.
The main reason I went back...mistakenly...was that old faithful chestnut:  I wanted to give it a second shot for the kids' sake, if for nothing else.

As I noted in my post, once I fully realized it, I took responsibility for saving me and left.  I didn't specifically state this above but I believe it takes two to make a relationship and each person has certain obligations to the other.  When one partner does not follow through on their obligations, they are causing damage to the other partner.  However, that person has control over their own actions and the level of intensity of their feelings in response to their partners' provocative actions (or lack thereof).  As stated, I saved me and did my best to keep up the father/child relationship with my kids. 

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 7:21:05 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Actually, I did. And it took a really loooong time for me to get there, too. I almost never reach that point. You might note that I also apologized later. I meant it when I said it, later sort of retracted it and finally just gave up. The person I was having an issue with is clearly having some sort of "issue" with the topic in general - although she never clued the rest of us in to just what that might be - she just kept being an annoying pain.  ActualIy it was more than that - she was just nasty. I am pretty sure there is something "going on" woith her re: This topic, but frankly - after the way she acted, I just don't care anynore what that "something" might be. I finally reached the end of my rope. I do have an "end of my rope" It takes a hell of a long time for me to reach it, but I did.

I am quite sure that the thought that some were being unkind (on top of making no sense) didn't matter to some - that was more than clear. I finally just had it. And then I (finally) really said what I thought (why hold back? Some other people don't seem to care much about that "kind of thing"). I am tired of being "nice" to adults who (I think) are just plain rude - and on purpose. From now on, they can expect same from me. I can be a real _itch when I am teed off, too.  There is no excuse for it. Being "mean" back at them is really - "lowering myself to their level" I suppose - but at least they may finally SHUT UP. - Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/22/2006 7:33:26 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 7:24:23 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: incognitobynight

Now, if they feel the MUST issue ultimatums to us ("suck it up, or leave"), don't be surprised if we react adversely to that. 



incognito:

The thing is that its so easy to say.  But so hard to do.  Its just so simple...just leave. But its *not* that simple.  Theres a person who is going to be hurt, possibly devestated, and *that* is where the conflict comes in. 

In some ways, I lived in my marriage similarly.  I  simply lowered my standards of what happiness was supposed to mean to me. (Its over now, and I wont go into that story) but I know its a tough spot to be in.  I for one would be dreading the conversation in which you have to sit down with a person you love and care about, and completed turn their world upside down, and remove from them all that they have known as their life.  Thats where the pain comes in.  You weigh it out....your own happiness, or the other persons happiness.  Very very tough call.  I wish I had advice to give on how to go through such a transition as smoothly as possible. 

I wanted to ask you something.  Not sure if you covered this...But would your husband be willing to have an open marriage?  Maybe if you explain just how much you miss that aspect of human bonding, he would understand.  It may be a do-able resolution for you both.  If you already touched on that, I apologize.  I may have missed it  in the thread.

(in reply to incognitobynight)
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RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 7:26:06 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
From now on, they can expect same from me. I can be a real _itch when I am teed off, too.  There is no excuse for it. Being "mean" back at them is really - "lowering myself to their level" I suppose - but at least they may finally SHUT UP. - Susan 

You have no idea how high school all this sounds.  You are giving control of your manners, maturity, and social interactions to people who you perceive to be being meanies to you?

You've apologized a few times already.  That means you either realized what you were doing was inappropriate OR you didn't actually mean the apologies at all.

If you continue with your inappropriate behavior, then it really shows that you don't have a problem at all with people acting inappropriately- you just don't like it when they do it to YOU.

Not to mention the entire issue of whether they have been acting inappropriate to begin with or whether you are just over-sensitive or over-reacting from a personal standpoint? 

Instead of taking the path of understanding and communication, you have taken the path of righteous outrage.  And it ain't pretty.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 251
RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 7:36:01 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Actuallly I do know how it sounds. And I am even surprised I am saying it. It's a colassal waste of time to even be mad. I have better things to do, I know. Thanks for reminding me.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 8:17:06 AM   
subspecialist


Posts: 9
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

quote:


Original: SusanofO
Actually, I gave up after about two years ("pushing, that is. I never really "pushed" my husband for sex anyway - (I cried and whined a bit). But, after that did no good, I gave up and looked elsewhere. Also, I wasn't: Fat, a "bitch", a nag, unattractive or lax in taking care of the house (or my husband, in many ways, for that matter). Nobody is going to convince me this was my fault. You may be a good guesser as to why my situation happened, but - I was actually there...I am not trying to offend you in any way, I am just saying - I really almost went crazy trying to figure out what I might be "doing wrong". I finally figured out the answer: Nothing. -Susan  


That was an excellent realisation to come to....one any abused person must come to. We can be abused in so many ways, lack of intimacy and sexual contact with your sigificant other amounts to abuse in my mind and the effected person will go through the entire cycle that any abused person will go through, blaming themselves, tearing themselves apart trying to find whats wrong with them, lack of self esteem, etc etc etc...until finally one day if they are lucky they will realise, "It isnt me" and start the healing for themselves.




Exactly!!!  

(in reply to slavejali)
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RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 8:19:14 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
She did suck it up.  For some 10 years, then the man was diagnosed with cancer and subsequently passed away. 


Yes I know Susan's situation... I have followed her posts since she began posting some time back and have shared a few private emails with her along the way. 

quote:


Im glad that you created the situation you did for yourself and that it has worked for you.  Yes to a great degree *we* control our lives and circumstances.  But you know what?  Sometimes life throws you a curveball anyway.  And thats what this girl got.   I think its pretty honorable that she sucked it up for so many years in the interest of keeping her vows.  
  Honorable? or maybe it was foolish?  or maybe both or alot of different things.  Yeah she was true to her vows, this was indeed honorable.  But, at what price?  Only she can weight if the price was worth the honor.  I suspect she is wondering if it was worth it now.  Questioning her decision to stay all those years.  Thinking of all the times that she just about turned directions but didn't.  She stayed.  And she Sucked It UP.  But, part of Sucking it Up is really accepting the consequences then and in the future.  We all can't spend our life seconding guessing our past decisions to the point that it inhibits our ablity to move forward.  Do I have any compassion for Susan's situation.  No not really at all, she made the choices to stay in it.  Choice that where the best she could of made at the time and if something else needed to be done, she would of done it.  Susan is not lacking of Character.  Listen to her and you notice a person that is Strong and Determined.  Passionate and in love with life in general.  She will get back on track and I have no doubt that she will find what needs and wants.  But she isn't going to find it in her past.  It's in her present and future.


quote:


What appears to be "whining" and crying about it, is most likely, the residual effect it had on her self-esteem.  ie....  Was I too skinny?  Was I too fat?  Did he not like the way I touched him?  The way I smelled?  The way I moved?  Was I not pretty enough?  good enough?  sexy enough?  I could be wrong, but *this* is what I get from reading this girl.  Not a cry for a group pity party, but more a cry for someone (yes even strangers) to say..."look, sometimes this kind of thing happens and yeah its ok that it left you a bit screwed up.  And no, it wasn't your fault because he couldnt/wouldnt fuck you". "You didnt do anything wrong", "You didnt rob him of anything in the last years of his life"."sometimes these things happen for reasons that are beyond your control".  "And yeah, you need to move on without feeling guilt." Apparently she is stuck in that spot and needs a boost to get past it. Maybe....just maybe that is what she needs instead of being battered with "stop feeling sorry for yourself, suck it up, its your fault for staying".  etc etc.   


I don't disagree you thoughts that there is residual effects with anyone that goes through a period of time like this.  However, what many call compasion is nothing more than enabling behaviors that will keep the person stuck in the past and in their self-pity.  Susan made the best decision possible for her, end of story.  She is not responsible for her husband's choices any more than her husband is responsible for her choices.  I take offence that her Husband was some sort of ogre because he didn't perform sexually.  News flash! not everyone wants to have sex that often.  There is both sides to the averages... High numbers like myself that have sex on average more than once a day to those that just don't have it.  Considering that the average is only 3-4 times a month, I suspect there is alot more not having it than there is having it.  No matter ones sex drive, it doesn't make them inadequate or weird or abusive.  It's who they are. 

Sexual Incompatibility is actually a very serious problem for alot of relationships and is a contributing factor in the failure of many relationships.  The lack of sexual satisfaction due to sexual incompatibility can have some serious issues like Sexual Depression and Anxiety as part of the problem.  However,  These problems are not going to be resolved in isolation.  If only one person is prepared to deal with the incompatibility then that person must either leave the relationship or find ways to deal with the effects that such an imbalance is going to cause.  Feeling sorry for individuals is not going to help people in this situation.  They need to seek ways to overcome the effects and support to do that and not kept in that self-pity cycle.  She made her choice now go and deal with the effects.  I am confident that Susan in particular is going to find a way to overcome the residue of what she endured.  But she will not if she keeps listening to all the sorry for you BS or gets caught up in the drama of her pain.  My girl Kyra gave me a good phrase that i think is rather applicable here.  She needs to stop being Pushed by her Pain and instead she needs to Pulled to her Goals! 

We so often get trap in a cycle of our own pain.  It is like a ball and chain around our leg, affect our ability to move.  The more we focus on the pain the more it starts to affect our choices and behaviors.  We can't move forward if the pain is the one in control.  We need to focus on the positive goals that will take us out of the pain, whatever that might be.  Focus on achieve the goals and be motivated into action to achieve them.  It's a choice! 


quote:


I guess it all comes down to personal interpretation of a particular post.  And you know what?  When I write on a thread, I try to keep my remarks to the Poster that Im addressing and I try to avoid critiquing others' posts, because I cant stand when people do that to me.  But I slipped up this time and did the exact same thing to you.  I read the thread and felt terrible for this girl. Because for whatever reason, whether she needed tough love or compassion, she didnt get anything positive here.  And that made me feel badly.  But then who am I to tell anyone what to say or how to say it?  I should have just had the self control to not critisise your post.  It was the last one I read before commenting.  So you got the brunt of it.    I apologize for doing that, and for reaching into your personal life and using that to make my point.


I actually think that she did get some postive.  But, like anything on the forums. there is really a little of both.  Seldom is it only in one direction.  It does however always come down to pesonal interpretations.  What you see as positive, I am say as negative and vice vrs.  I would also state that at this moment in time it may appear negative, but down the road it suddenly hits and the wisdom and positive effect is realized.  I would also say the reverse is also true.  We feel so great to get this advice and we act on it for it seems to prefect, alittle down the road and we wonder what the hell are we doing?  We then start to back track and have to revisit things, Again!

I feel you have nothing to apologize for.  You shared your thoughts.... emotional as they may of been.  I took them with that in mind.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 254
RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 8:19:58 AM   
incognitobynight


Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: incognitobynight

Now, if they feel the MUST issue ultimatums to us ("suck it up, or leave"), don't be surprised if we react adversely to that. 



incognito:

The thing is that its so easy to say.  But so hard to do.  Its just so simple...just leave. But its *not* that simple.  Theres a person who is going to be hurt, possibly devestated, and *that* is where the conflict comes in. 

In some ways, I lived in my marriage similarly.  I  simply lowered my standards of what happiness was supposed to mean to me. (Its over now, and I wont go into that story) but I know its a tough spot to be in.  I for one would be dreading the conversation in which you have to sit down with a person you love and care about, and completed turn their world upside down, and remove from them all that they have known as their life.  Thats where the pain comes in.  You weigh it out....your own happiness, or the other persons happiness.  Very very tough call.  I wish I had advice to give on how to go through such a transition as smoothly as possible. 

I wanted to ask you something.  Not sure if you covered this...But would your husband be willing to have an open marriage?  Maybe if you explain just how much you miss that aspect of human bonding, he would understand.  It may be a do-able resolution for you both.  If you already touched on that, I apologize.  I may have missed it  in the thread.


Marie, you have hit the nail on the head.  The conflict IS in how I know this will hurt my husband.  He will not consider an open marriage.  He has very traditional values and cannot comprehend of anything that hints at infidelity.  When we do have conversations about this, when things tend to reach a crisis point, his reaction is usually to be hurt, to beg me to give him another chance and he will actually get motivated to do something (see a doctor, TRY and be with me, work harder in other areas of our lives to make me happy).  He says he is ashamed of what he has deprived me of and always .....believes I think, that he can overcome this.  This complicates it for me even more.  If you met him, you would like him.  He is a big goofy, vulnerable, good natured fellow.  And know matter what people say, I know he loves me and depends on me for so much.  He is just a little bit better than I am at getting (and keeping) what he needs and wants (sad, but true).  (don't get me wrong, he can be a little shit at times too, and still has some control issues that drive me nuts, but he is not a bad person).  It's not going to be easy, and when the day comes what will make it harder is that his pain will turn what he feels towards me to hatred.  There is no doubt about this....it has been discussed before.  I'm not looking forward to that either. 

An interesting detail about his upbringing.  His mother and father stayed married, but they lived in separate apartments in the same apartment complex.  His father came over and visited with the family and ate all his meals there, but then at night went home to his own apartment.  To my husband, I think, a "normal" relationship is what he grew up witnessing.  Interesting.....don't ya think?

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 255
RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 8:31:01 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

The thing is that its so easy to say.  But so hard to do.  Its just so simple...just leave. But its *not* that simple.  Theres a person who is going to be hurt, possibly devestated, and *that* is where the conflict comes in. 



I agree... but to often people avoid hurting another at the expense of their own needs.  This is nothing sort of self-abuse!  We can't ask or expect someone to be what they are not!  They may try, and if the issue is an external one, the situation can change.  However, if it's an intrinsic part of their nature, It's not going to change.  It's unfair to blame someone because that they can't be what they are not.  I see that as much as people staying in a harmful situation to themself out fear(real or imagined) of hurting another.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 256
RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 8:37:51 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		Doing the right thing, either for yourself or for someone else, isn't always easy. And the people you do it for may never forgive you, but in the end you have to reconcile it with yourself, regardless if they do or don't. To forgive yourslef for what you have to do, I think, is the hardest thing for people to do

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If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to incognitobynight)
Profile   Post #: 257
RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 8:40:13 AM   
Reflectivesoul


Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline 		wow, ok it seems I have missed much this morning, and even last night as LA pointed out. thanks LA for that by the way because I was clueless as to that other thread, funny how that works huh? I get accused of being mean hearted and bashing but I have YET to call names and to pointedly insult someone else.
 
Now for me this whole turn around in the thread revolves around two major things.
 
1st people retorting to those who did say either deal with it and shut up or leave.
 
2nd My saying that people should be responsible for their own actions.

The first mentioned thing, yes I can see some feeling that is a bash, because god forbid it isnt coddling or anything else. You can not expect that when you put your life out there that everyone is going to say "poor baby let me hug you" which for the most part the people who have not said that are the ones being told how mean and hateful they are and being accused of not being sympathetic and understanding. Well news flash some people find it hard to put a sympathetic hand out to someone who has made a concious decision to stay in a bad situation yet choose to discuss said situation and how they are a victim of it. The only thing they are a victim of is their own bad decision making.

Secondly all of the above feeds in to people that have not taken upon themselves to take responsibility for themselves and their feelings, yet insist that their feelings are a cause of someone else. Just as I am being accused of being cold hearted, a bitch, judgemental, and in general a completely non-understanding sympathetic person. I was in the same type of relationship but because I took responsibility for myself and have chosen not to play the victim card or the coddling others card, I am accused of being a bitch, callous, cold hearted, uncaring, unsympathetic, <insert other insults and negative remarks here> oh oh and lets not forget bashing too.

I have YET to post a bash twords someone else, name calling, or anything of the like. What I have done repeatedly is point out someone elses refusal to see their own responsibility to themself. With that said, the majority of my posts here have been directed to one individual that did in fact make the choice to bash, insult, call names, and act completely beligerant. When that has been seen as some kind of bash to others on this thread that is not my problem. When I have been called out about someone else feeling I was bashing other said persosns I have gone out of my way to post to the fact that I did feel for the other woman, but yet I am still accused of being cold hearted twords her. Go figure....

All *I* have done is point out that everyone is responsible for their own feelings, no one else is, and in turn I get blamed for someone else losing their composure and losing their control of themselves. I did not and will not accept responsibility for her actions. I did not hold her hand and post for her, she did that for herself. She then when not getting the desired reaction from me and others, with her foun and derrogatory remarks, went and started a witch hunt thread to try and gain justification for her nasty and foul behavior. And yet again I get bashed as being the cold hearted and mean spirited < add other insults again here>.

As far as ganging up on that person, no, that is a sad representation of the events, in MY opinion. She started the bashing, she lost control, she attacked others for their viewpoints. When said people told their opinions back to her that is not ganging up its is giving back what they were given. But at the same time they did not name call, did not insult did not bash. But they are in turn the ones being accused of the actions and blamed that they got the negative attention because they failed to coddle and to sympathize.
 
Frankly, thats BULLSHIT.

I have yet to see myself or any one of the other posters the did not coddle or post in an extremely sympathetic light as being so "mean". Yet we have been told our points are invalid, wrong, cold, yadda yadda.

Just who was it that was being ganged up on again? Just who was it that has been slinging insults? Who was it that has been bashing?

If you get offended because I said to take responsibility for your own actions... I dont know what to tell you but as I stated before if you dont like it and find that big of an issue with it, give me the unsensitive sticker and label me how you choose to do so.

< Message edited by Reflectivesoul -- 6/22/2006 8:43:36 AM >

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 258
RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 8:51:43 AM   
incognitobynight


Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

Doing the right thing, either for yourself or for someone else, isn't always easy. And the people you do it for may never forgive you, but in the end you have to reconcile it with yourself, regardless if they do or don't. To forgive yourslef for what you have to do, I think, is the hardest thing for people to do


Mr. Discipline,

Yes it is hard to do the right thing....and make no mistake about it....I know what the right thing (for me) to do is.  And since I haven't mentioned it in my most recent posts, let me say it again, I hope to eventually do the right thing.  (and so that we don't have to travel down the WELL beaten path again, let me also remind you I don't blame my husband and I take FULL responsibility for my situation).  Forgiving myself will be hard.  I carry around a lot of guilt (some earned, some unearned but it's real anyway).  This is where therapy comes in. It seems like a painfully slow process sometimes, but I am learning a lot about what makes me tick, and about why I do some of the self-destructive things I have done to myself.....so, I guess that is progress. 

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 259
RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/22/2006 8:54:31 AM   
incognitobynight


Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		Big Sigh.

(in reply to Reflectivesoul)
Profile   Post #: 260
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