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RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 3:10:30 PM

Reflectivesoul

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
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quote:

lack of intimacy and sexual contact with your sigificant other amounts to abuse in my mind

you do not have to have sexual contact to have intimacy.

intimacy
close or warm friendship; a feeling of being intimate and belonging together.

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 141

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 3:16:02 PM

MizSuz

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: irishbynature

mnottertail: She begged him to go years ago. She got sick of begging. It did nothing but make the situation worse.

The question is: What do you think his problem really is?

His problem is an unhappy wife.

She's got two choices, accept it (be it through counseling or otherwise) or not. If not, then realize that he's not going to change unless he wants to and decide whether the relationship is still what she wants. If it's not then I don't care what the excuses/ reasons are - she should get out of it. If she stays then she's making a concious choice to accept it.

She'll have to live with it, one way or another, unless she leaves. If he's going to change it will have to be something he wants to do and not something she makes or manipulates him into doing.

There aren't any other options. Remember, one definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different response.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to irishbynature)

Post #: 142

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 3:35:47 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

quote:

Original Quote: ReflectiveSoul
you do not have to have sexual contact to have intimacy.
intimacy
close or warm friendship; a feeling of being intimate and belonging together.

Yes thats true, yet within a partnership *union* to have that fully functional on all levels of existance, our sexual beings need to engage too. Sexual intimacy is a very big part of that and is of equal importance to the intellectual and emotional bonding.

To expand on that, I lived in a very intimate relationship with my late husband, due to his illness and various other reasons, there was no physical sexuality involved in our relationship. At the time I perceived I was totally happy and fulfilled....yet...I was really incredibly conscious that when Master came into my life and my sexuality was invoked again...it was like a part of me that had closed off opened up again...there was a real feeling of sharing myself on a more complete level although I had not realised it was missing when it wasnt happening (if that makes sense).

I think we have more *bodies* than just our physical *body*. We have a sexual body, an emotional body, a mental body etc etc etc...and they are all really related to each other and interact with each other...for a really full complete relationship..all bodies need to play along. When one part is missing our other parts go out of whack. Wonder if that makes sense to anyone but me lol.

< Message edited by slavejali -- 6/21/2006 3:45:28 PM >

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

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(in reply to MizSuz)

Post #: 143

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 3:37:44 PM

Clothespingirl

Posts: 82
Joined: 3/8/2006
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Hey, Susan,

I just followed my own advice and used that nice block button on ReflectiveSoul. The thread is suddenly shorter and more endurable! <grin>

<hugs Susan> Get on out from in front of the computer and go look at some sunshine. Isn't the world bigger than it used to be? And isn't 46 younger than it used to feel? And isn't it great that it's ok to sneak peeks at the cute guys!

_____________________________

"Cheeky bitch"

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 144

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 3:40:22 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Thank you. And I am not mad at Reflective Soul. I do think she may be laboring under the impression that there has to be a reason for everything that happens (between people, or otherwise). Maybe there is, but that doesn't mean I am ever going to necessarily know what the reason is.

My opinion: The world can be a real sewer. There are people living in Africa, dying by the thousands of AIDs with no medicine. Why them and not me? Who the hell knows?

This is one reason I just love getting in debates with atheists (I am not trying to start a religious discussion here, but I've been around that block. It's just so much fun)! Ironically it is, in many ways, a lot like this one has been. If there's no "logic" behind the "answer", then "the answer" doesn't exist for them (What they never tell you is they are not really interested in logic). As if our puny brains were meant to understand why everything happens? Spare me - it's just such an ego-filled argument. It says: "If I don't understand it, it can't be real" (and please don't any atheists write to me. I have a headache). - Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/21/2006 3:50:20 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 145

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 4:16:47 PM

timeoutgurlie

Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline

To the women who've been in these relationships, sorry if it's been asked, I skimmed but didn't read the entire thread...

Was it always this way? Did it just happen after marriage?

I'm not making accusations or judging, I'm just curious how this happened unexpectedly, and if they did have and enjoy sex before, then they could still I'd think?

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 146

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 4:24:06 PM

Reflectivesoul

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
And I am not mad at Reflective Soul. I do think she may be laboring under the impression that there has to be a reason for everything that happens (between people, or otherwise). Maybe there is, but that doesn't mean I am ever going to necessarily know what the reason is.

A reason for everything, yes there is. But I also believe in placing responsibility where it lies, within ourselves, and not blaming it on someone else.

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 147

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 5:05:18 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
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I have little idea, except that I know he did have some ED (erectile dysfunction) - that is completely treatable - he chose not to treat it, for whatever reason (he used Viagra for a few weeks, then claimed it gave him migraines, which it looked like it did. But there are other Viagra-like drugs out there, and I suggested he try one (or more) of those. He wasn't interested. I was tired of "pushing it" - and just plain tired. I am thinking he was more asexual than not. I think he was "faking it" to a degree anyway, just to please me duirng the first five years we were together (even if at the time, I had no idea he was perhaps doing that). I also have no idea why he chose not to seek any kind of counselling or medical treatment. Considering he had a wife who was suffering as a direct result of his in-action, it would have been more responsible thing to do. I certainly required counselling just being married to him. I should have divorced him. But then he got bone cancer. - Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/21/2006 5:06:47 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to timeoutgurlie)

Post #: 148

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 5:15:00 PM

sskitten

Posts: 43
Joined: 9/15/2005
Status: offline

Dear Incognito, Susan, friend of IrishMist, and others who have ached inside a marriage,

Please pardon me for a moment while I address LA's remark from some pages back....

quote:

Lucky Albatross
I'm sorry your "friends" felt some need to bring this out in public and for you to feel the need to out yourself about it. You've obviously decided this is the best thing for you in your life, so there really shouldn't be any more need to discuss the point

I am friends with Incognito and called her attention to this thread because I thought she might find the early responses interesting and possibly helpful and wondered if she might like to share on the thread. It would have been wonderful if she and others could have done so without then finding certain judgments heaped upon them - but I hasten to add I am not casting blame; they are not victims on this thread; they made their choice to contribute; they can choose to ignore or feel affected by any or all posts..... and yet I must also say that I am dismayed at the direction in which this thread has turned.

The ones I see pointing the largest fingers of blame here are not these women. And in the case of Incognito, she has bent over backwards for many years not to blame her husband at all. I have never heard her here or anywhere blaming him or anyone. I hear her taking full responsibility for herself and her predicament and also stating that she is working on a solution, that she knows what she must do but she is working on the transportation to her destination. I salute and embrace her for her courage and sensitivity in an extremely difficult situation.

Much of this thread has addressed the lack of sexual intimacy. Incognito has stated here that she has not had any form of physical intimacy for ten years. Even if some of you think a person can go forever without sex (which is hard enough), I think it is beyond sad for a person to go for year after year with no hugs, cuddles, hand-holding, kisses, nothing. Her husband has an aversion to all of that, but she has a deep and understandable hunger for all forms of physical and emotional intimacy which she tried for years to deny and finally could no longer ignore. From the point of her awakening until now she has been actively working on a solution. As she has said herself so well, just because some of you might be able to beam yourselves up doesn't mean she can... but she is working on her transportation and she holds her destination in sight and she knows she is going to get there. In other words, she is taking full responsibility for herself, her feelings, and her actions!!

I think we can help best by listening, sympathizing, and cheering her on. Same goes for Susan and the OP's friend and the others who have shared their pain here.

Hugs to you all, and here's to the day when you once again feel warm arms wrapped around you for real.....

(in reply to incognitobynight)

Post #: 149

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 5:37:53 PM

MrDiscipline44

Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Considering he had a wife who was suffering as a direct result of his in-action, it would have been more responsible thing to do.

Sweetheart, it wasn't like you needed his liver or kidney to live. You wanted tube steak and he had no inclination to give it to you. Just get over it and move on. For Gods sake, the man has passed on, let him rest in some peace.

And it's not like the need for counsiling goes only one way. He probably need cousiling just as much as you did.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 150

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 5:43:05 PM

Reflectivesoul

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline

ok wait a minute....

1st you never pushed the issue

now, you pushed the issue made him take meds that gave him headaches, then when he quit that you told him to get different meds, when he said no it became him just being unwilling to serve you sexually, and therefor you were abused.

I just dont buy into that. He tried meds, he tried to make you happy by using meds that made him sick. He tried and he didnt like the outcome but because he didnt continue to strive to have sex that makes him an abusive partner. No that makes him tired of trying things to fulfill your desire when the desire was not HIS. But again because the desire was not his and he still did not bone up to the issue then he is the wrong one. hmmmm..... he didnt want something but its his fault that you did.... ok, sure.

How can you continually say its all his fault and that he didnt do this and didnt do that regarding medical help, after admitting that he did try meds? That seems to me to just be talking out of both sides of ones mouth. Again placing a blame on him because he did not comply with your wants. Because I am fairly sure that a man who does not want sex will not go on his own to a doctor to seek out drugs that will cause a sexual outcome.

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 151

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 5:53:42 PM

Reflectivesoul

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline

kitten,

You are right, incognito never blamed her husband, as a matter of fact I do believe she is the one that said that despite the sexual issues she still loves him.

I can fully understand needing the intimacy of hugs and cuddling and things of that nature. The lack of such things speaks volumes of that lack of basic friendship within their marriage. I am NOT saying that women in a completely loveless marriage ( atleast one way ) should stay. But to base leaving on just the lack of sexual attention in my eyes is wrong. Leaving because of the lack of any contact at all... no mutual adoration for eachother in some form, is I believe understandable. I wouldnt condemn anyone to a life with a basic stranger, which at the point of all attention being taken away is what the relationship devolves into.

My stance alone has been against those who are just complaining about the lack of sex. Sex doesnt make relationships fail or work. How many times have we seen people come to the boards or to us as friends crying because their sexual conquest of the week has dumped them? You can not base a relationship on the basis of sex and sex alone, or the lack there of. People are complex and just one aspect does not make or break them. But I also feel it is important that if blame is going to be placed on a relationship failing because one party lacks the sexual interest of the other, that the blame not be placed on the one who does not want or desire. It is that persons right to not want something.

That would be like saying I am going to leave someone because I want his nipples pierced and he doesnt.... that he is such an asshole because he wouldnt do that for me. It is HIS body to do with what he chooses, not what someone else chooses for him because they want it....

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to sskitten)

Post #: 152

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 6:02:10 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Bug off! When I need your approval for anything I think or feel - I'll ask for it. Got that, little man? - Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 6/21/2006 6:06:02 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

Post #: 153

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 6:04:49 PM

Reflectivesoul

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline

and with a reaction like that to a man who has a differing opinion of your own, I know damn well what I said about the way women treat men when they dont get their way is true beyond a shadow of a doubt....

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 154

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 6:11:28 PM

Veryfewcan

Posts: 57
Joined: 11/18/2005
Status: offline

Who said F-off Susan?

_____________________________

I used to be lost. I was wondering about all that???

(in reply to Reflectivesoul)

Post #: 155

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 6:16:57 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

quote:

lack of intimacy and sexual contact with your sigificant other amounts to abuse in my mind

you do not have to have sexual contact to have intimacy.

intimacy
close or warm friendship; a feeling of being intimate and belonging together.

and a bit later....

quote:

A reason for everything, yes there is. But I also believe in placing responsibility where it lies, within ourselves, and not blaming it on someone else.

And if someone wants sex they are to just either except not having it cause their partner doesn't want it or leave or cheat?

Why isn't the other partner responsibilty for trying to work things out or finding other ways for the sexual partner to get what she/he needs?

Marriage is a partnership! Hell, Ds is still a partnership! That means both people have to work at it and take responsibility for it working. Not just the person who wants sex or doesn't want sex.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 6/21/2006 6:19:13 PM >

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Reflectivesoul)

Post #: 156

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 6:28:29 PM

timeoutgurlie

Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline

Sorry to bring it back up again, but I'm still confused. If you don't want to answer anything, then don't (obviously, I don't need to give you permission to have privacy, but, you know...just wanted to be clear).

For the women who's husbands ended up saying no to sex altogether, you did have 'regular' sex before though, or not really? Were there always feelings like you wanted more sex than your husbands did? Did they always have problems with sexual touch? Could it have been ED type problems and they slowly weened from sex...like no penetration with their penises, but still foreplay and apparent desire?

It's so hard to understand.

For Proprietrix mainly, a question about being asexual...just a curiosity thing as this is the first time I ever heard of this, I hope it's not rude to ask. For someone who is asexual, does that mean they just feel no desire for sex as in intercourse? Do you still enjoy foreplay and have sexual responses? Masturbate and enjoy it? Or would it be like someone I have no attraction to touching me...there'd just be a disgust and none of the typical mental response or physical response? Again, sorry if it's too personal, but who knows if I'll ever get to ask someone these questions again in life, hope you're not offended.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 157

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 6:30:01 PM

subspecialist

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

kitten,

You are right, incognito never blamed her husband, as a matter of fact I do believe she is the one that said that despite the sexual issues she still loves him.

I can fully understand needing the intimacy of hugs and cuddling and things of that nature. The lack of such things speaks volumes of that lack of basic friendship within their marriage. I am NOT saying that women in a completely loveless marriage ( atleast one way ) should stay. But to base leaving on just the lack of sexual attention in my eyes is wrong. Leaving because of the lack of any contact at all... no mutual adoration for eachother in some form, is I believe understandable. I wouldnt condemn anyone to a life with a basic stranger, which at the point of all attention being taken away is what the relationship devolves into.

My stance alone has been against those who are just complaining about the lack of sex. Sex doesnt make relationships fail or work. How many times have we seen people come to the boards or to us as friends crying because their sexual conquest of the week has dumped them? You can not base a relationship on the basis of sex and sex alone, or the lack there of. People are complex and just one aspect does not make or break them. But I also feel it is important that if blame is going to be placed on a relationship failing because one party lacks the sexual interest of the other, that the blame not be placed on the one who does not want or desire. It is that persons right to not want something.

That would be like saying I am going to leave someone because I want his nipples pierced and he doesnt.... that he is such an asshole because he wouldnt do that for me. It is HIS body to do with what he chooses, not what someone else chooses for him because they want it....

rs,
You have quite obviously NOT EVER been in the situation under discussion here. Therefore, it is quite inappropriate for you to comment, much less judge anyone here.
~s

(in reply to Reflectivesoul)

Post #: 158

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 6:32:17 PM

Reflectivesoul

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
And if someone wants sex they are to just either except not having it cause their partner doesn't want it or leave or cheat?
Why isn't the other partner responsibilty for trying to work things out or finding other ways for the sexual partner to get what she/he needs?

TammyJo,

But the person who doesnt want sex is responsible for making sure the other person gets off? not in my eyes at all. If sexual contact is a direct no no to someone why should they have to make sure someone else gets off?
Seems to me that it is just imposing something directly linked to a dislike for that person, and shoving it in their face. That's no different than taking a sub with a hard limit and then rubbing that limit in the subs face and saying well you have to make sure I get this even if you hate it. Its wrong and its foul. If these women feel the need to get off then thats what they make toys for. *shrugs*

I quite like Trix's stance that it is your body, your sexual drive, your orgasm, your responsibility.

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 159

RE: Submissive in sexless marriage - 6/21/2006 6:34:10 PM

Reflectivesoul

Posts: 1777
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline

and it is quite obvious you didnt read the whole thread because I WAS in a situation like this for 6 years... try again

Oh and by the way, if you're going to tell everyone that has never been in a specific situation that they arent allowed to have an opinion much less voice that opinion, you better put on some pretty big shoes, because you have just told everyone they arent allowed to have an opinion on anything because no one experiences the same thing the same way as someone else..... oh and pulling a page from your book, you know nothing about me so you have no voice as to what I can comment on and what I cant.....

< Message edited by Reflectivesoul -- 6/21/2006 6:37:39 PM >

_____________________________

ooooo..I bet THATS gonna leave a mark!!!!

Equal opportunity pisser on-er ... heh..

Gimme some crayons, I want color and I want it now DAMNIT!

(in reply to subspecialist)

Post #: 160

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