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Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this have to... - 2/2/2013 10:32:12 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The most lethal sniper for the US military was shot and killed on a gun range today. The 25 year old veteran gave a short chase driving Kyle's vehicle before being arrested.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/rough-creek-189536271.html

Chris Kyle, former Navy Seal and author of "American Sniper", had 160 kills "he made his longest successful shot after he spotted an insurgent with a rocket launcher 2,100 yards (about 1.2 miles) away, near a U.S. Army convoy."

He was helping a veteran who was diagnosed as having PTSD when he and someone with him were shot and killed, Kyle at point blank range, on a shooting range in Texas.

Here is Kyle weighing in on the gun control debate in Jan, 2013.

http://www.guns.com/2013/01/21/hot-show-2013-navy-seal-chris-kyle-talks-politics-obama-piers-morgan-with-guns-com/

39, husband and father of 2. If this can happen to him, why does anyone assume it couldnt happen to them?

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/2/2013 10:33:03 PM >

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RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/2/2013 10:40:49 PM   
midmichiganguy


Posts: 49
Joined: 11/8/2008
Status: offline 		What a horrible and tragic thing to happen to a genuine American hero. My prayers are with his family tonight.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/2/2013 10:42:20 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Mine are as well. I really feel for his family and pray they find some measure of peace soon.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to midmichiganguy)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 3:50:37 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Terrible and tragic.

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RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 4:13:39 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Very Sad, no motive is known. I do wonder if this has anything to do with the lawsuit against Jesse Ventura, another SEAL?

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 6:04:51 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The most lethal sniper for the US military was shot and killed on a gun range today. The 25 year old veteran gave a short chase driving Kyle's vehicle before being arrested.
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/rough-creek-189536271.html
Chris Kyle, former Navy Seal and author of "American Sniper", had 160 kills "he made his longest successful shot after he spotted an insurgent with a rocket launcher 2,100 yards (about 1.2 miles) away, near a U.S. Army convoy."
He was helping a veteran who was diagnosed as having PTSD when he and someone with him were shot and killed, Kyle at point blank range, on a shooting range in Texas.
Here is Kyle weighing in on the gun control debate in Jan, 2013.
http://www.guns.com/2013/01/21/hot-show-2013-navy-seal-chris-kyle-talks-politics-obama-piers-morgan-with-guns-com/
39, husband and father of 2. If this can happen to him, why does anyone assume it couldnt happen to them?


I'm not sure what your point is here, Tazzy. What does it matter this guy was a Navy SEAL? Are you saying that a former SEAL shouldn't be able to be shot? That if a Navy SEAL can be shot, anyone can be shot?

Other than this being a terrible tragedy to someone who was truly trying to help, where are you going with this?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 6:39:19 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Well, golly gee, DS.

First, you could have expressed some sympathy...

Second, this is an example of a man who is well trained in weapons, both military and civilian.

Third, with all the talk of mental illness in the gun community and how people with a mental illness should be restricted from guns, this man who decided to use his popularity to take at Obama and any attempts at gun control laws.

Fourth. Gun therapy does not work.

And finally, this is a man who has left his wife and 2 children to fend for themselves because he thought he knew better.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 6:58:43 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		This is so sad. I feel bad for the family he left behind. They must be devastated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Well, golly gee, DS.

First, you could have expressed some sympathy...

Second, this is an example of a man who is well trained in weapons, both military and civilian.

Third, with all the talk of mental illness in the gun community and how people with a mental illness should be restricted from guns, this man who decided to use his popularity to take at Obama and any attempts at gun control laws.

Fourth. Gun therapy does not work.

And finally, this is a man who has left his wife and 2 children to fend for themselves because he thought he knew better.


First, he said it was "a terrible tragedy to someone who was truly trying to help" pretty much the same thing that everyone else said on the board. But I didn't notice you commenting on their replies.

Second, unless that training includes being able to detect a bullet flying at you and dodging it, it is really irrevelent if he had it or not.

Third, we don't know if the shooter had mental issues or not. Are you implying that he was shot because he was against gun control? That he somehow deserved this?

Fourth, not sure what you mean by gun therapy.

Fifth, thought he knew better than what? To go out in public? Perhaps he should have hidden in his house for the rest of his life. To publicly speak his mind? I thought that was part of the whole freedom of speach thing. Again it seems like you think he should have thought of his family and kept his mouth shut and somehow deserved to be shot.

In your op you said "If this can happen to him, why does anyone assume it couldnt happen to them? " What was your point?


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RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 7:10:13 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

First, he said it was "a terrible tragedy to someone who was truly trying to help" pretty much the same thing that everyone else said on the board. But I didn't notice you commenting on their replies.


No, first he tried to lay into me. His "sympathy" was more of an after the fact.

quote:

Second, unless that training includes being able to detect a bullet flying at you and dodging it, it is really irrevelent if he had it or not.


I find his training extremely relevant. As did many others consider their own training extremely relevant on these boards.

quote:

Third, we don't know if the shooter had mental issues or not. Are you implying that he was shot because he was against gun control? That he somehow deserved this?


Yes, we do.

Investigators said Routh, a former Marine and expert marksman who is said to suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome, is believed to have turned his weapon on Kyle and the second victim, killing them both at point-blank range about 3:30 p.m.

quote:

Fourth, not sure what you mean by gun therapy.


https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-columns/armed-senior-citizen/gun-therapy/

quote:

Fifth, thought he knew better than what? To go out in public? Perhaps he should have hidden in his house for the rest of his life. To publicly speak his mind? I thought that was part of the whole freedom of speach thing. Again it seems like you think he should have thought of his family and kept his mouth shut and somehow deserved to be shot.


Well, now that you KNOW the shooter had PTSD, do you wish to change this part of your response?

quote:

In your op you said "If this can happen to him, why does anyone assume it couldnt happen to them? " What was your point?


I stated my point. Do try and read better.. and well as reading links.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/3/2013 7:11:26 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 7:28:42 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Well, golly gee, DS.
First, you could have expressed some sympathy...


"Other than this being a terrible tragedy..." does express some sympathy. Is it necessary that I erect a shrine to honor him, pen an original soliloquy to venerate him, prostrate myself in online wailing and gnashing of teeth? Must I post my condolences for all here to see? What would that have changed in my post?

quote:

Second, this is an example of a man who is well trained in weapons, both military and civilian.


Very, very true. While none of that was in question, it wasn't his training or lack of training that caused this event.

quote:

Third, with all the talk of mental illness in the gun community and how people with a mental illness should be restricted from guns, this man who decided to use his popularity to take at Obama and any attempts at gun control laws.


Really? Where do you get that?

quote:

Fourth. Gun therapy does not work.


Done any research into it's success rate?

quote:

And finally, this is a man who has left his wife and 2 children to fend for themselves because he thought he knew better.


How many people has he helped since he left the military? How many families (complete or remaining), retired soldiers? Chris Kyle was out making a difference to help his brethren who were having a tough time adjusting. Obviously, you think you know better than him.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 7:30:19 AM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		It simply looks like more seizing on a tragedy to score political points.

As the issues surrounding abuse of fireams grow (and they seem to be), expect to see more of this kind of thing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The most lethal sniper for the US military was shot and killed on a gun range today. The 25 year old veteran gave a short chase driving Kyle's vehicle before being arrested.
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/rough-creek-189536271.html
Chris Kyle, former Navy Seal and author of "American Sniper", had 160 kills "he made his longest successful shot after he spotted an insurgent with a rocket launcher 2,100 yards (about 1.2 miles) away, near a U.S. Army convoy."
He was helping a veteran who was diagnosed as having PTSD when he and someone with him were shot and killed, Kyle at point blank range, on a shooting range in Texas.
Here is Kyle weighing in on the gun control debate in Jan, 2013.
http://www.guns.com/2013/01/21/hot-show-2013-navy-seal-chris-kyle-talks-politics-obama-piers-morgan-with-guns-com/
39, husband and father of 2. If this can happen to him, why does anyone assume it couldnt happen to them?


I'm not sure what your point is here, Tazzy. What does it matter this guy was a Navy SEAL? Are you saying that a former SEAL shouldn't be able to be shot? That if a Navy SEAL can be shot, anyone can be shot?

Other than this being a terrible tragedy to someone who was truly trying to help, where are you going with this?



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 7:35:33 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
This is so sad. I feel bad for the family he left behind. They must be devastated.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Well, golly gee, DS.
First, you could have expressed some sympathy...
Second, this is an example of a man who is well trained in weapons, both military and civilian.
Third, with all the talk of mental illness in the gun community and how people with a mental illness should be restricted from guns, this man who decided to use his popularity to take at Obama and any attempts at gun control laws.
Fourth. Gun therapy does not work.
And finally, this is a man who has left his wife and 2 children to fend for themselves because he thought he knew better.

First, he said it was "a terrible tragedy to someone who was truly trying to help" pretty much the same thing that everyone else said on the board. But I didn't notice you commenting on their replies.
Second, unless that training includes being able to detect a bullet flying at you and dodging it, it is really irrevelent if he had it or not.
Third, we don't know if the shooter had mental issues or not. Are you implying that he was shot because he was against gun control? That he somehow deserved this?
Fourth, not sure what you mean by gun therapy.
Fifth, thought he knew better than what? To go out in public? Perhaps he should have hidden in his house for the rest of his life. To publicly speak his mind? I thought that was part of the whole freedom of speach thing. Again it seems like you think he should have thought of his family and kept his mouth shut and somehow deserved to be shot.
In your op you said "If this can happen to him, why does anyone assume it couldnt happen to them? " What was your point?


Thanks for trying.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 7:37:50 AM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

It simply looks like more seizing on a tragedy to score political points.

As the issues surrounding abuse of fireams grow (and they seem to be), expect to see more of this kind of thing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The most lethal sniper for the US military was shot and killed on a gun range today. The 25 year old veteran gave a short chase driving Kyle's vehicle before being arrested.
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/rough-creek-189536271.html
Chris Kyle, former Navy Seal and author of "American Sniper", had 160 kills "he made his longest successful shot after he spotted an insurgent with a rocket launcher 2,100 yards (about 1.2 miles) away, near a U.S. Army convoy."
He was helping a veteran who was diagnosed as having PTSD when he and someone with him were shot and killed, Kyle at point blank range, on a shooting range in Texas.
Here is Kyle weighing in on the gun control debate in Jan, 2013.
http://www.guns.com/2013/01/21/hot-show-2013-navy-seal-chris-kyle-talks-politics-obama-piers-morgan-with-guns-com/
39, husband and father of 2. If this can happen to him, why does anyone assume it couldnt happen to them?


I'm not sure what your point is here, Tazzy. What does it matter this guy was a Navy SEAL? Are you saying that a former SEAL shouldn't be able to be shot? That if a Navy SEAL can be shot, anyone can be shot?

Other than this being a terrible tragedy to someone who was truly trying to help, where are you going with this?




That was my thought as well.

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 7:40:39 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-columns/armed-senior-citizen/gun-therapy/
I stated my point. Do try and read better.. and well as reading links.


You did not state your point. You may think you did, but, apparently, two people didn't see it, and a third probably picked up on something you didn't mean to be your point.

How is it that you can say that "[g]un therapy does not work" and then link to an article written by a clinical psychologist that, essentially, uses gun therapy as part of his treatment modalities?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 10:12:43 AM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

It simply looks like more seizing on a tragedy to score political points.




This

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 10:52:50 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		To answer a question or two Chris Kyle help form a Charity FITCO.

http://www.fortmilltimes.com/2013/02/03/2473826/official-statement-from-us-navy.html

It does appear the Chris Kyle did take other Vets to a shooting range to help those Vet with PTSD. However there is no indication that Chris had any training in therapy or was licensed. There are some who use what they call "Gun Therapy" to teach gun owners responsibility but no where have I found it used as a medical treatment for anything including PTSD. Generally a person with PTSD can feel anger...so perhaps would someone who is feeling anger be given a gun even under control conditions a good thing?

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/what-are-the-symptoms-of-ptsd.shtml

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-columns/armed-senior-citizen/gun-therapy/

It also appears the Chris Kyle knew the shooter Eddie Ray Routh. As to Routh suffering from PSTD it is possible but to be sure would require a Medical Doctor.

Detail of what happen are few, so let us wait and see. Now to some on this thread...Chill Out!!!

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 4:17:16 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
It simply looks like more seizing on a tragedy to score political points.


How else can those looking to fix the problems with our countries stance on guns make their point to those who refuse to acknowledge that there are problems other than to point to all the tragedies?

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 6:16:45 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		Seems to me that 'Making their point' to 'those who refuse to acknowledge' is simply debating... which IMHO is mutually exclusive to fixing problems. This isn't a 2 dimensional issue with a magical solution.

'Looking to fix problems' would require a rational analysis of *all* the causal factors, and the objective use of a logical process.






quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

How else can those looking to fix the problems with our countries stance on guns make their point to those who refuse to acknowledge that there are problems other than to point to all the tragedies?


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1
It simply looks like more seizing on a tragedy to score political points.


How else can those looking to fix the problems with our countries stance on guns make their point to those who refuse to acknowledge that there are problems other than to point to all the tragedies?



< Message edited by Powergamz1 -- 2/3/2013 6:17:52 PM >

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 8:14:30 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I have many friends that have the same views on gun control as Mr. Kyle and I respect them...Not for their stand on guns, which is unreasonable and wrong, but for the people they are. No one should be judged strictly on "a" political view alone. We are complicated beings with many views and many stands and need to be judged in our entirety.

I do not know the circumstance of his killing and do not know him personally but I certainly have sympathy for the family and friends left behind.

He is also not the first pro gun enthusiast to be killed in gun violence and will not be the last so his stand on guns should not relate directly to his death.

I’ve been wondering about the mental condition of someone who coolly killed 160 people. I would do my duty as well but I also know how haunted I would be about those deaths. Personally I saw enough death and killing in my time and when I got out I wanted nothing to do with weapons of death again… but that is just me…I wonder if it affected him?

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/3/2013 8:32:50 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Chris Kyle, Navy Seal and sniper. Why did this hav... - 2/3/2013 9:52:33 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
How else can those looking to fix the problems with our countries stance on guns make their point to those who refuse to acknowledge that there are problems other than to point to all the tragedies?



Perhaps by sticking to the tragedies which are somehow relevant? We have no idea what the relationship was between these three men, or what led up to the fatal events. The two dead placed themselves in a dangerous position, in hope of helping somehow, and the situation went as badly wrong as it could go.

Maybe we should require federal licensing, before people try to reach out to a fellow man in distress?

We now return you to the scheduled, "Pro-gun guy dies ironically," gloat thread.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 20
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