RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....?

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TheLilSquaw -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:20:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne If anyone tries a search of the terms Daddy Dom + pedophile, you will see basically, "nilch, nada, nothing." Why would that be? And, the terms "age-player" and "incest-player" are not listed as BDSM interests, here on CM. Incest play and age play fall under role play. Although CollarMe does not use labels such as Daddy, Mommy, baby girl, baby boy, and little. Fet does give you the option of Daddy, baby girl, and age player.

LadyPact -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:21:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne Hi LadyPact, Thank you for the thoughtful and detailed response. You are welcome. I'm going to try to do My best here Okay, now I see the need to hone in on a specific type of Daddy Dom so my question is this: "Is an incest-play or age-play, Daddy Dom, a pedophile psychologically, but he behaves physically/sexually only with adults?" No. How many incest players do you actually know? I saw the comment about your prior dom and I'm not entirely sure that hasn't colored your perceptions. Have you ever been to a little's munch? I don't know what "UM" means. "UM" is CM jargon for unmentionable. Meaning anyone under the legal age of consent. These are questions. I'm not saying that A = B. I'm saying, A has x, y & z, in common with B - with the obvious differences of "age of consent" and "Consent." Beyond that... I'm asking if age players &/or incest players, are pedophiles in terms of sexual desire? Why is this question so inflammatory? Are rape players rapists? Of course not... but, within the realm of consent... it would seem that some aspects of excitement are shared. I think that's the issue. They aren't really in common. For example, where is the shame and self loathing trend that you see among Daddy Doms? Where are you seeing the inability to have peer relationships? If you can draw the logical conclusion that those who engage in rape play are not rapists, why is the parallel difficult? I see what you mean. I hope that refining my original "label" from "Daddy Dom" to Daddy Dom - incest & or age-player" fixes that. Not really. It happens to be My belief that anybody bringing someone into their lives who happens to have children needs to screen those people properly. That's no matter what lifestyle affiliation that they have, including vanillas. I do pay attention to safety issues "on the street" and do my part to contribute. I'm not really concerned about internet relationships and safety... my focus is more on what happens after meeting in R/L. Why would you think that age players are more likely to create concerns about safety? I get that you ran across somebody that you felt had sexual desires that were not the norm. I get the feeling that now, you are painting everybody in that category with the same brush. I have it on a few threads that we are currently building a dungeon. In My current location, there are a number of littles in our community, so to reflect that, we built a little's corner. We didn't stock it with butt plugs and lube. It has coloring books and building blocks. It's a small area for people to allow their "little" to be little. Should people be scared to meet Me in real life? In my experience, sadists have been the most responsible, empathetic and emotionally generous group I've encountered in BDSM. I think that is because they take the most risks and have a need to know the effects of their actions upon others. Just a guess... So, no, I'm not thinking that sadists want to harm anyone! I really don't follow your reasoning on this point. Am I missing something here? So, I have one kind of desire, and as an ethical sadist, you would probably consider Me safe. Why is it that you can't have the same consideration for a different kind of kink (age play)? How many people have you known in your local community who have a conviction for molestation? How many people at your local munch are on the sexual offenders registry list? I do attend local community gatherings, have hosted a couple and do engage in one-on-one friendships with other lifestylers. Still, I am relatively new to this and am open to all avenues of learning. I will say that internet research does offer some protection from the awkward nature of this conversation. This forum is a kind of middle ground, I think, because it allows for multiple perspectives and experiences to be shared and this is helpful... at least, for me. In other words, these were questions/assumptions that you wouldn't ask anybody at your local group who goes by the label of Daddy because????? I'm just trying to give you a little comical crap, but maybe you see My point. I'd like to recommend a book to you. It was written by a gentleman that I had the pleasure of being a fellow presenter with last year at Northern Exposure. Here is the link. http://www.amazon.com/Ageplay-Diapers-Diplomas-Paul-Rulof/dp/1610981901/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315664460&sr=8-1

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:35:44 AM)
A page ago, I think, in response to LadyPact, I re-phrased my original post question to the limited group of Daddy Doms who are also incest-players &/or age-players. I think your response addresses the age-players. Thank you. :) I am speaking only for myself... aren't we all? Judgmental? Really? Did you read the part where I posit that if a pedophile channels that desire into age-play with another adult, that they just might be a kind of hero? Please think about what kind of non-judgmental heart can think of another human being like that, when most want to just kill them. To elaborate... my request that we not discuss the defense of the kink is because I am not saying there is anything wrong with the kink. I'm aware that the Daddy Dom being equated with a reviled pedophile is a long-standing misconception - one I don't have. That conversation has been done and redone. I am asking something else. Your very first sentence answers one of my questions. Thank you for your response. I appreciate your candor, Toppingfrmbottom. quote: ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom I certainly wouldn't be all for someone with pedophilia desires channeling it into a grown woman who acts like a kid, that's sick and the person needs help. But all the Daddy doms I know, and mine included, are not interested in me because I act like a child, or I look like a child, or I dress like a child they're interested in the grown woman I am who is trusting enough to let them see a very precious part of my personality. I was severely abused most my childhood and into early adult hood, so being a child at heart is very much a real part of me and it's not make believe or something I take off and put on at a whim. I'm very picky about who I trust all of me to, but most specifically the parts of me that are still at a biological childs age. I don't have to look or dress like a child for my Daddy to want me and love me, in fact he prefers even though I am a child at heart I save acting like a child for home, and for ageplay munches. You don't have to dress or look like a child to have a Daddy Dom, thats just falacy, and some littles and age players are 50 and 60, long past the look like a child stage. And speak for yourself only please, My doms did not get me to be with them by grooming me with praise or gifts or anything else. I came to them of my own accord and stayed with them for the joy of being with them, themselves, not cause I was groomed. They also didn't keep me isolated, or make me feel ashamed of myself, or any of the other stuff you're hinting at. If anything they encouraged me to go out and see the world, and not be ashamed of who and what I was. I am virtually a shut in and I have little to no natural pride in myself, and all my partners minus one doofus that was a poor pick on my behalf, encouraged me to feel pride in myself. quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne I’m feeling paralyzed by fear. I don’t even know where to turn for answers. I am hoping that TOS guidelines won’t interfere with a rational and informative discussion of this topic. I simply seek clarity. These are my questions: Question 1 Is a Daddy Dom a pedophile psychologically, but he behaves physically/sexually only with adults? I believe people are sexually unique for three reasons: 1) Born that way 2) An early event linked sexuality and (fill in the blank/fetish) 3) Choice. Question 2 So, if a guy is sexually aroused and attracted to all things youthful and he acts on it, it’s a crime and a horror. But, if that same guy channels those feelings into mutually consensual behavior with another adult, or adults, then I think we’d all want to support that “use” of those feelings, right? Question 3 Daddy Doms and pedophiles “groom” the focus of their attention, using praise, gifts and a sense of dependence. But do they share these other qualities as well: -a self-image as being younger than they really are? -inability to maintain peer relationships? -a need for isolation, control and secrecy? -shame, self-loathing, but with a charming façade? - (fill in the blank with your own observations)? quote: sexually aroused and attracted to all things youthful and he acts on it, it’s a crime and a horror. But, if that same guy

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:38:54 AM)
Could you please say what you mean when you write "couple of convos on FET about this"? What you say after that makes me think that you didn't understand the original questions, which is why I ask you to elaborate on "this." Thanks. :) quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I had an interesting couple of convos on FET about this some time back. 2 simultaneous threads were going where Daddydoms were called pedophiles and the exact same women were saying "You GO girl" in a thread about 'cougars'.[8\|]

Hillwilliam -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:47:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne Could you please say what you mean when you write "couple of convos on FET about this"? What you say after that makes me think that you didn't understand the original questions, which is why I ask you to elaborate on "this." Thanks. :) quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I had an interesting couple of convos on FET about this some time back. 2 simultaneous threads were going where Daddydoms were called pedophiles and the exact same women were saying "You GO girl" in a thread about 'cougars'.[8\|] What I meant is that there is a lot of hypocrisy even among experienced lifestylers. FET has even more discussion threads than here and for some reason, a lot of women seem to think that a man who prefers younger partners (even though DD/lg relationships aren't necessarily age different) is a pedophile whereas a 'Cougar' is someone that has it "Goin' ONNNNNNNNNNNN". Can you see the hypocrisy? I have been a DD before but I can't fucking STAND to be around children. Period. If I'm someplace and a bunch of the little shits start running around and screaming, I have to leave. So much for Daddy Doms being repressed pedophiles.

TheLilSquaw -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:47:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne To elaborate... my request that we not discuss the defense of the kink is because I am not saying there is anything wrong with the kink. I'm aware that the Daddy Dom being equated with a reviled pedophile is a long-standing misconception - one I don't have. That conversation has been done and redone. I am asking something else. Even the title of your OP " Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....?" says that you are assuming or suggesting that they are similar or did not realize that they were different. You're OP and even your reply to LP do much / some of the same IMO.

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:49:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shininglight23 FR TwoHeartsBeatOne, I am a little shocked at how your questions were slanted towards the negative. I do understand that if you have never been in, had a desire to be in, or had an opportunity to understand a relationship such as a Daddy/lg.. it may be confusing. I have been in, and continue to be in such a relationship. I can reassure you that I have never met a man that was a "Daddy" that was also a pedophile. I can only speak from my personal experience, and my relationships never involved a creep factor of..."come sit on Daddys lap while he runs his hands...etc" In my relationships it's always been more of a mental and emotional connection. I sent you a Cmail... please read what I attached. I'm hoping it gives you a better understanding. Allie Thanks, Allie. I appreciate the Cmail. I am answering people here now, but will take a look when a lull occurs. This is very important to me and I do welcome all perspectives. :) This thread got long, so it's a lot to read and it gets emotional at times. I can see that I should have limited my original post to Daddy Doms who engage in incest &/or age play, and not all Daddy Doms. This seems to be where I expressed myself poorly. Having clarified that (and by the way, should I go back and edit my original post to reflect this?) if you also consider that I have these views about pedophiles: 1) they don't choose their feelings any more than anyone else chooses their own 2) they can't be talked out of them 3) these feelings, expressed sexually, with other adults, are of no harm to anyone 4) scaring them into the shadows only endangers children MORE 5) some pedophiles ARE using a Daddy Dom label and life-style... in what way(s) are my questions "negative"?

littlewonder -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:50:03 AM)
If you're not getting the answers you want then you may want to rethink your communication and writing style.

MariaB -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:54:08 AM)
I just had to come back to compliment so many good posts. AthenaSurrenders you are one very astute woman.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:56:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder If you're not getting the answers you want then you may want to rethink your communication and writing style. If she isn't getting the answers she wants, maybe her assumptions are totally incorrect.

DrkOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:58:41 AM)
As long as all parties involved are of legal age and there's full consent. What difference does it make if there is a sort of pedophilia sort of mindset? It's not factual. It's roleplay. So really, this seems to be a big ado about nothing

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 11:59:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB I just had to come back to compliment so many good posts. AthenaSurrenders you are one very astute woman. Thank you Maria! That means a lot coming from you because I think you are a very wise woman.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:07:56 PM)
I will not ever support the idea of a pedophile acting out his desires on someone who is an adult but wishes to portray a child. It will never be something I applaud or think someone hero like for doing. The desire to molest children at any age, should be something the person seeks treatment for, not replacing the desires by acting it out on adults. I don't think they need to be killed, unless their crimes were particularly heinous, and then that's up to a judge and a jury to decide the death penalty for them, not us , but they do need mental help and maybe to be locked up for the rest of their lives if they're the sort that is super dangerous and can not be turned around. I forgot to mention earlier when I go to my child space we don't have sex or kinky interactions. It's to us akin to sexual abuse, I have been there, done that got the emotional scars, regression is my safe place away from adult cares. All though I o have to be totally honest, sexual age play and incest fantasies and rape play are huge fantasies of mine in the adult kink world. Some of that may have come from being molested very early in my formative years. I still wouldn't want someone who lusted after real children and used me as his proxy. I don't even think that's quite possible. As children and adults do not have the same qualities that a pedo would like. And there's just some things you can not fake. quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne Judgmental? Really? Did you read the part where I posit that if a pedophile channels that desire into age-play with another adult, that they just might be a kind of hero? Please think about what kind of non-judgmental heart can think of another human being like that, when most want to just kill them. To elaborate... my request that we not discuss the defense of the kink is because I am not saying there is anything wrong with the kink. I'm aware that the Daddy Dom being equated with a reviled pedophile is a long-standing misconception - one I don't have. That conversation has been done and redone. I am asking something else. Your very first sentence answers one of my questions. Thank you for your response. I appreciate your candor, Toppingfrmbottom.

EsotericLady -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:10:05 PM)
1. If the OP's mind was already made up, than the OP wouldn't have been here asking questions about it in the first place. : ) 2. As for the internet not being just for porn, considering the fact that I don't use the internet for viewing porn and you know about it so well ...oops! LMAO 3. And you're right of course, you don't owe anyone anything merely because they happen to be human beings. But you must admit that it makes those comments in your profile look just a tad bit hypocritical there, DADDY DEAREST. Oh I forgot....peace and comfort...peace and comfort.... peace and comfort....etc. etc. quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I'm on no pedestal. The OP's mind was made up, before the post was written and I'm under no duress or obligation to provide information to anyone that simply can't be bothered to look it up. Which brings me to: You seem to not know that not having a bible at your fingertips is no reason to not be able to figure out what a bible verse references. Here's a hint: The interwebs isn't just for porn, anymore, dear. Yes, the words below my avatar show how much I am concerned for people that think that I owe them something merely because they see it as being so. As I have stated, previously, I posted a wonderful essay in a previous thread. There, again is the whole "do your own research" thing. People that truly seek knowledge can find it here on the interwebs. Good luck to you. Peace and comfort, Michael

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:25:46 PM)
Unfortunately no. It's not a part of every one . Some people are extremely jaded, and won't trust any one of anything. That part of me that had child like faith automatically was killed a long time ago. quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne I admit I don't have a grasp on how "childlike faith and intimacy" are separate from any woman's personality. Isn't that simply a part of all of us?

EsotericLady -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:29:01 PM)
LilSquaw? With all due respect for YOUR Daddy relationship, I'm afraid I must admit that I've never seen a relationship as yours...(see what I quoted you as saying below) before. I've seen it both with baby girls and with littles. R/L. They most surely DID consider themselves father and child. As for screwing, they most certainly did and broadcasted that they did.. as father and daughter. Sorry but...(shrugs)...I haven't seen it any other way. quote: ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw A daddy dom doesn’t consider himself my father or me his child. A daddy and his baby girl are not role-playing that they are “father and daughter” nor is a daddy and a little role playing that they are “father and daughter.” A daddy dom, isn’t attracted to a baby girl or a little because he wants to fuck his daughter or any child for that matter. A baby girl or little isn’t attracted to her daddy because she wants to fuck her father. They are attracted to one another as the adults they are, but a daddy dom is also attracted to the child-like qualities that his baby girl or little hold. Their innocents, their behavior. Although you see more daddy/baby girl relationships there is another dynamic that falls into this same group. Those are the Mommies. Which are the exact counter part of the daddy, except women. ETA: There are also baby boys and male littles which are the male counter part of a baby girl and female little.

ARIES83 -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:29:31 PM)
I've only read a couple of pages of this thread, but I'm impressed by the amount of mature and intelligent responses. Daddy Dom doesn't equal Pedophile. They aren't the same thing.

crazyml -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:33:31 PM)
Firstly... What an awesome collection of responses, to a super controversial topic! I really can't add any insight that hasn't already been provided, but just for the record... No, I don't think that an interest in age-play is a "flag" for pedophilia.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:35:18 PM)
Strangely enough, in 30+ years of this I have never seen a DD/bg couple who DID consider themselves father/child. YMMV quote: ORIGINAL: EsotericLady LilSquaw? With all due respect for YOUR Daddy relationship, I'm afraid I must admit that I've never seen a relationship as yours...(see what I quoted you as saying below) before. I've seen it both with baby girls and with littles. R/L. They most surely DID consider themselves father and child. As for screwing, they most certainly did and broadcasted that they did.. as father and daughter. Sorry but...(shrugs)...I haven't seen it any other way. quote: ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw A daddy dom doesn’t consider himself my father or me his child. A daddy and his baby girl are not role-playing that they are “father and daughter” nor is a daddy and a little role playing that they are “father and daughter.” A daddy dom, isn’t attracted to a baby girl or a little because he wants to fuck his daughter or any child for that matter. A baby girl or little isn’t attracted to her daddy because she wants to fuck her father. They are attracted to one another as the adults they are, but a daddy dom is also attracted to the child-like qualities that his baby girl or little hold. Their innocents, their behavior. Although you see more daddy/baby girl relationships there is another dynamic that falls into this same group. Those are the Mommies. Which are the exact counter part of the daddy, except women. ETA: There are also baby boys and male littles which are the male counter part of a baby girl and female little.

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:36:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB @I'm not being confrontational... but how do we know that a pedo needs the real thing? You need to understand what you are saying before you say it, especially with a subject like this that is so evocative. I am not going to go into details of how I know but I suggest you take your research from here to some proper research papers and gain a thorough first hand understanding of what a pedo is, how he thinks, how he feels and why he targets very particular age groups. In the 80's and in the 90's, I worked in sexual assault/incest survivor counseling. I AM aware of the issues, types and ineffectiveness of current treatments for pedophiles/molesters. That said, I am relatively new to BDSM, so this is the community I seek answers from now. My question, "how do we know a pedo needs the real thing?" refers to the general understanding that just because sexual behaviors are taboo, does not mean that people won't find alternative behaviors to express the underlying feelings. I'm talking BDSM here, not vanilla... so a sadist with a masochist... who share a consensual agreement - match made in heaven! And, a Daddy Dom who incest/age plays consensually with a daughter/lg - again, match made in heaven. (Although, ironically, someone who posted earlier called that sick, just before calling me judgmental)! My point is that if some Daddy Dom incest &/or age players are taking lust for children and playing that out with adults, I don't see the harm in that. (I can't do it, but that's just me.) In the same way that rape players are excited by elements of rape, why can't it also be true that incest/age-players are excited by elements of pedophilia? Consider rape play. Does it have to be "real" to be sexually exciting? Does the person have to be a rapist to be excited by this? Don't props, words, the "story" all contribute to the fantasy? So are you suggesting that every man who plays around with consensual rape is a potential rapist? Rape isn't about sex, its about control. The moment a woman consents to consensual rape it isn't rape, its fooling around. No, I get the boundary of consent as the differing factor. I AM suggesting that the elements of a sexual kink (taboo or otherwise) ARE related to the non-consensual / criminal manifestation of the same desires. One's kink; the other is crime. In other words, can't someone have a dark desire AND be socially, morally and psychologically whole enough to want to NOT act on it? I think in some cases yes but its like all BDSM. If a man couldn't flog his submissive would he be physically abusing a woman? In the main its going to be 'no' Sorry, I really don't understand these last two sentences above... help? Thanks. I have many dark desires when it comes to BDSM. I have no interest in un-consensual though and so would never act out those desires without a willing partner. I think the majority are like myself but there are exceptions to everything.

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