RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....?

RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (Full Version)

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AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:38:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EsotericLady LilSquaw? With all due respect for YOUR Daddy relationship, I'm afraid I must admit that I've never seen a relationship as yours...(see what I quoted you as saying below) before. I've seen it both with baby girls and with littles. R/L. They most surely DID consider themselves father and child. As for screwing, they most certainly did and broadcasted that they did.. as father and daughter. Sorry but...(shrugs)...I haven't seen it any other way. quote: ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw A daddy dom doesn’t consider himself my father or me his child. A daddy and his baby girl are not role-playing that they are “father and daughter” nor is a daddy and a little role playing that they are “father and daughter.” A daddy dom, isn’t attracted to a baby girl or a little because he wants to fuck his daughter or any child for that matter. A baby girl or little isn’t attracted to her daddy because she wants to fuck her father. They are attracted to one another as the adults they are, but a daddy dom is also attracted to the child-like qualities that his baby girl or little hold. Their innocents, their behavior. Although you see more daddy/baby girl relationships there is another dynamic that falls into this same group. Those are the Mommies. Which are the exact counter part of the daddy, except women. ETA: There are also baby boys and male littles which are the male counter part of a baby girl and female little. I'm really surprised. I think what LilSquaw is describing is the more common version of a daddy dom than a couple that actually take part in age play.

EsotericLady -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:42:12 PM)
You'll have to excuse me, but this paragraph is beyond any amount of logic or emotional tenderness I can fathom!!! quote: ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders I am absolutely sympathetic to any person who finds themself wired this way and does not act on it. What a difficult life that must be! Imagine the difficulty in removing yourself from temptation, the loneliness of knowing you will likely never have an intimate relationship, the fear of others finding out and the backlash. I don't know what sort of help is out there for these people, but I'm guessing not much. People don't want to help paedophiles, even good paedophiles. In much of the UK, if you feel like you might abuse your partner or you have committed domestic abuse and you want to join a program to help you change your behaviour, you won't be eligible unless you have been convicted. There is little to no help for people who are trying to work on their issues without being forced. I imagine it is the same for paedophiles - you can't just go to Paedophiles anonymous. And if you could, would people go or would they be afraid of being outed? All in all, it's a horrible situation.

EsotericLady -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:44:05 PM)
And I was equally surprised to read that what I have always seen firsthand is NOT the norm! (shrugs) quote: ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders quote: ORIGINAL: EsotericLady LilSquaw? With all due respect for YOUR Daddy relationship, I'm afraid I must admit that I've never seen a relationship as yours...(see what I quoted you as saying below) before. I've seen it both with baby girls and with littles. R/L. They most surely DID consider themselves father and child. As for screwing, they most certainly did and broadcasted that they did.. as father and daughter. Sorry but...(shrugs)...I haven't seen it any other way. quote: ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw A daddy dom doesn’t consider himself my father or me his child. A daddy and his baby girl are not role-playing that they are “father and daughter” nor is a daddy and a little role playing that they are “father and daughter.” A daddy dom, isn’t attracted to a baby girl or a little because he wants to fuck his daughter or any child for that matter. A baby girl or little isn’t attracted to her daddy because she wants to fuck her father. They are attracted to one another as the adults they are, but a daddy dom is also attracted to the child-like qualities that his baby girl or little hold. Their innocents, their behavior. Although you see more daddy/baby girl relationships there is another dynamic that falls into this same group. Those are the Mommies. Which are the exact counter part of the daddy, except women. ETA: There are also baby boys and male littles which are the male counter part of a baby girl and female little. I'm really surprised. I think what LilSquaw is describing is the more common version of a daddy dom than a couple that actually take part in age play.

LadyPact -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:45:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EsotericLady LilSquaw? With all due respect for YOUR Daddy relationship, I'm afraid I must admit that I've never seen a relationship as yours...(see what I quoted you as saying below) before. This is going to come off wrong but.......... Have you considered that you may need to get out more? What she describes is far more common than the other way around.

Missokyst -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:46:31 PM)
Indeed, your questions do go beyond that. But the only thing they have in common is someone CALLING themselves a daddy when in fact, what you met was a sick fuck who really was attracted to children. When my niece was young she hooked up with a really older guy who provided gifts, food, treats, ect. She implied he was being like a daddy to her when it was clear it went beyond that. My sister either knew or ignored it for the benefits given and had I not been more aware and had not been a victim to one of my sisters boyfriends I would have stood up even at my young age to defend her daughter against what I could see was not an innocent "daddy". The man was a pedofile, plain and simple. How did I know this later? When my neice would visit him when she was an adult, she would wear younger style clothing, put her hair in pigtails, and act disgustingly cutesy. BOING! As an adult it was obvious to me. And as an adult it should have been obvious to you about your prior experience. There is a clear difference in attitude between a pedofile and someone who is using the term daddy. Marilyn Monroe called Joe Dimaggio, daddy on more than a few occasions. I doubt he ever saw that body in a childlike way. I will say this about not being able to differentiate between good and evil intent. Keep the children out of it. When my kids were young no man was allowed to come into their lives until I knew him very well. It disturbs me when people bring in a new authority figure into their childrens lives so randomly. quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne My questions go beyond that.

MrRodgers -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:46:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers The so-called daddy dom is a creation of the Internet. Back a few years ago, I had coed subs and others under 30 since. Not a single one ever called me daddy let alone perceive me as one or a pedophile as of course they were all of age. I beg to differ. Daddy Doms existed before the internet. Thank you. It always bothers Me when people post such incorrect information. In all of my years I had never even heard or read the abbreviation 'dom' for the word dominant. One was either dominant or not. That goes for any literature, film or otherwise. Same for the expression daddy dom and to me, the whole idea does an injustice to couples I have known since before the net existed, enjoying extremely wide differences in age where none of these labels were ever used.

EsotericLady -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:48:24 PM)
I've seen all those labels used not only in conversation but in screen names on CM, Fet, and other sites pertaining to D/s and BDSM. CM is just as full of all the labels as anywhere else. quote: ORIGINAL: TheLilSquaw Although CollarMe does not use labels such as Daddy, Mommy, baby girl, baby boy, and little. Fet does give you the option of Daddy, baby girl, and age player.

TheLilSquaw -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:49:12 PM)
EL, Then you don't have very much experience with daddy / baby girl relationships. I have and am part of several large groups for daddy / baby girls in both California and Maryland and the majority if not all of those that I have EVER meet are exactly how I described the relationships. Even the Daddy/baby girls I know from this forum. Don't consider themselves father / daughter. quote: ORIGINAL: EsotericLady LilSquaw? With all due respect for YOUR Daddy relationship, I'm afraid I must admit that I've never seen a relationship as yours...(see what I quoted you as saying below) before. I've seen it both with baby girls and with littles. R/L. They most surely DID consider themselves father and child. As for screwing, they most certainly did and broadcasted that they did.. as father and daughter. Sorry but...(shrugs)...I haven't seen it any other way.

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 12:55:15 PM)
Vendetta? No, you're really misunderstanding my intent. I did get hurt, but if you read what I said, I continued to be his friend until I knew there were other problems. Personally, I believe in karma - not in vendettas. And, for this specific hurt I felt at the hands of a man I loved, inspired me to be MORE understanding. I wondered if he was a pedophile who had the moral boundary of "don't hurt kids" and sought an outlet in BDSM DD/daughter relationships. That he did not tell me up front about his Daddy/daughter, sexual role-play, hinted to me that he was ashamed of his feelings and desires. If he could accept himself, verbally express his desires and connect with a woman who "fit," then no harm done, right? Well, that's what I think, anyway. It wasn't until later that I found out there were other factors (alcohol, dishonesty) that made something that wasn't my kink (incest play), seem more like something sick. Really sick - no consent when there's lies, you know? My original post asks to explore what is going on with these relationships. I've repeatedly said that I should have limited the question to the label of Daddy Doms who engage in incest & or age play - not, Daddy Doms in general. I apologize. I thought it was clear as I wrote it. I want to add... I at no point, asked for feedback on my own personal experience. I've done that one-on-one with local lifestylers who I meet with in R/L, and trust. They know us both. Here, I mentioned it because posters were assuming I had no experience with Daddy Doms and was confused about what it is. I am only confused about what is going on with a subset of Daddy Doms. And yes, I am asking so that I do not make the same mistake again. I'm sorry you feel used. I've appreciated your input. All the best... quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB I'm sorry but I thought this thread wasn't about a personal vendetta. I thought you were genuinely interested in what a 'Daddy Dom' in general is, when in fact what you were doing is talking about an issue specific to you. I feel as though I have just been dragged into a kangaroo court and so at this point I'm out of here.

egern -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 1:00:23 PM)
What little contact I have had with this is that the actual age is not important, the game is. Same with infantilism, adults playing babies.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 1:02:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers In all of my years I had never even heard or read the abbreviation 'dom' for the word dominant. One was either dominant or not. That goes for any literature, film or otherwise. Same for the expression daddy dom and to me, the whole idea does an injustice to couples I have known since before the net existed, enjoying extremely wide differences in age where none of these labels were ever used. I first heard it some time between '81 and '83. As I was a rank and pretty damn ignorant beginner, I was referred to as a "Baby Dom" by the older more experienced members of the community who were kind enough to teach me.

EsotericLady -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 1:04:29 PM)
First of all, there is no complete and successful treatment for pedophilia. A person may learn to better manage his actions, but once a pedo, always a pedo. Secondly, it has been proven that although the mental health institution deems someone extremely likely to reoffend and a serious risk to someone's life, that pedophile is still being released back into society. Thirdly, although you claim no sex with your Daddy, I recall not long ago a thread you started in which you asked for ideas to turn your Daddy on for "sexy time." I've also read in more than one of your posts some very detailed scenarios of your sex life with your Daddy. quote: ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom The desire to molest children at any age, should be something the person seeks treatment for, not replacing the desires by acting it out on adults... they do need mental help and maybe to be locked up for the rest of their lives if they're the sort that is super dangerous and can not be turned around. I forgot to mention earlier when I go to my child space we don't have sex or kinky interactions. It's to us akin to sexual abuse, I have been there, done that got the emotional scars, regression is my safe place away from adult cares. All though I o have to be totally honest, sexual age play and incest fantasies and rape play are huge fantasies of mine in the adult kink world. Some of that may have come from being molested very early in my formative years. I still wouldn't want someone who lusted after real children and used me as his proxy. I don't even think that's quite possible. As children and adults do not have the same qualities that a pedo would like. And there's just some things you can not fake. quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne Judgmental? Really? Did you read the part where I posit that if a pedophile channels that desire into age-play with another adult, that they just might be a kind of hero? Please think about what kind of non-judgmental heart can think of another human being like that, when most want to just kill them. To elaborate... my request that we not discuss the defense of the kink is because I am not saying there is anything wrong with the kink. I'm aware that the Daddy Dom being equated with a reviled pedophile is a long-standing misconception - one I don't have. That conversation has been done and redone. I am asking something else. Your very first sentence answers one of my questions. Thank you for your response. I appreciate your candor, Toppingfrmbottom.

TwoHeartsBeatOne -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 1:05:41 PM)
Thank you, Allie. Your answers helped me immensely. What you've written is what I thought a Daddy Dom/lg relationship was all about, at its finest. :) "All things youthful" was my way of saying - not of an age of consent. Gifts - yes, I meant generosity in all forms. I don't mean to be dense here, but what is the difference between age play/incest play and the feelings of pedophilia? Yes, consent and adults... I get that. What I am asking is when the age play/incest play is simultaneously sexual, is that a kind of Daddy Dom relationship in BDSM, or has a pedophile entered our midst? quote: ORIGINAL: Shininglight23 In post #39 you said, "I really appreciate the time and thought people are putting into this topic, but I am still waiting for more people to offer their answers to the questions I've asked in my OP. It's a lot to consider, but perhaps answering even one of the original 7 would be great." I'm not a Daddy Dom, but I will answer your questions in reference to me. quote: ORIGINAL: TwoHeartsBeatOne I’m feeling paralyzed by fear. I don’t even know where to turn for answers. I am hoping that TOS guidelines won’t interfere with a rational and informative discussion of this topic. I simply seek clarity. These are my questions: Question 1 Is a Daddy Dom a pedophile psychologically, but he behaves physically/sexually only with adults? Am I psychologically damaged because I prefer older men? No. If I ever even suspected a man to have true pedophile feelings...I would be out of there so fast... I can't even tell you. The men I've been with...it's not a physical thing.. it's mental and emotional desire to love, care for, and guide their lg. I believe people are sexually unique for three reasons: 1) Born that way You could say I was born this way... I never dated anyone under the age of 34... but I didn't start dating until 18. 2) An early event linked sexuality and (fill in the blank/fetish) You can say that as well... my earliest sexual experience was when I was 18..with an older man. 3) Choice. I choose to be with older men because I like them more. Question 2 So, if a guy is sexually aroused and attracted to all things youthful and he acts on it, it’s a crime and a horror. But, if that same guy channels those feelings into mutually consensual behavior with another adult, or adults, then I think we’d all want to support that “use” of those feelings, right? I'm not sure if I'm understanding this question correctly, but I will give it a shot. What makes you think that all Daddy Doms are attracted to all things youthful? Are you talking about coloring and barbies? I think you're implying that ALL Daddy Doms have pedophilia feelings, and some choose to use them in a non-criminal way. That is an incorrect assumption. I wouldn't support the "use" of any true pedophilia feelings. Ever. Question 3 Daddy Doms and pedophiles “groom” the focus of their attention, using praise, gifts and a sense of dependence. But do they share these other qualities as well: 1. I would think any partner I'm with should focus some attention on me and the relationship. 2. Praise is another word for... words of affirmation. In my opinion.. they are required for a healthy.. well balanced relationship. Who doesn't want to know they are appreciated? 3. A gift can be making a special meal for absolutely no reason. It can be creating a scrapbook to show how those moments meant something to you. Gifts are nice, and given by both parties in my relationship. 4. I'm a "free spirit" as he likes to say... and although I depend on him for moral support and help in making good judgements.. if I chose a path he didn't think was the best... he would chalk it up to.. "learning from my mistakes" -a self-image as being younger than they really are? He knows he's older than I am.. he especially feels it when we go hiking. [:D] -inability to maintain peer relationships? He has more peer relationships than I do. Talk about a "Chatty Charlie." -a need for isolation, control and secrecy? Again, I'm a "free spirit".. he has some control.. but feels no need for secrecy and to isolate me. -shame, self-loathing, but with a charming façade? He has no shame or self-loathing... he's his best promoter! He is rather charming. [:D] - (fill in the blank with your own observations)? Question 4 To anyone who has seen the film, “The Woodsman,” which shows how a woman accepts a pedophile’s need to express his sexuality in specific ways with her, do you agree that the Daddy Dom relationship is much like this? I've never seen it. Question 5 As a submissive who is also a parent, how do you handle both your own emotions, and your responsibility to protect, knowing the Daddy Dom’s preference for youth? I'm not a parent. Are you asking how would someone protect their children around their significant other? If that's the case... they're with a pedophile, and NOT a Daddy Dom. Question 6 As an aging human, how does it feel to be with a guy who is attracted to a look – an illusion – that will become more difficult to create with each passing day? I’m assuming that this feels good, or at least okay, but I wonder how that is achieved. He isn't attracted to a look or an illusion.. he is attracted to me.. a whole person. He knew me when I was 19, and he knows me now as a 24 year old. I don't fear for the day that I turn 25 or 26 or 35.. if our relationship is what we both believe it to be.. age is only a number. For us...our relationship is based on our emotional connection and our desire to be by each others side. Question 7 To Daddy Doms & those they partner with & with everyone in our community… What is being done already to protect innocents from harm? (This is at the core of what frightens me… is there a difference, if so, how can we tell?) How many "innocents" are on this site? We're all deviants. [;)] If you are again talking about protecting children.. then you're talking about a pedophile and not a Daddy Dom. I sincerely hope we can skip the defense of the kink… THAT is not the issue, and there is an abundance of that point of view already. Could we focus on this other concern, please? Thank you, Everyone. I hope this cleared some things up...again, I answered all your questions from my perspective... Please read the link I attached in the cmail. Allie

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 1:06:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EsotericLady You'll have to excuse me, but this paragraph is beyond any amount of logic or emotional tenderness I can fathom!!! quote: ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders I am absolutely sympathetic to any person who finds themself wired this way and does not act on it. What a difficult life that must be! Imagine the difficulty in removing yourself from temptation, the loneliness of knowing you will likely never have an intimate relationship, the fear of others finding out and the backlash. I don't know what sort of help is out there for these people, but I'm guessing not much. People don't want to help paedophiles, even good paedophiles. In much of the UK, if you feel like you might abuse your partner or you have committed domestic abuse and you want to join a program to help you change your behaviour, you won't be eligible unless you have been convicted. There is little to no help for people who are trying to work on their issues without being forced. I imagine it is the same for paedophiles - you can't just go to Paedophiles anonymous. And if you could, would people go or would they be afraid of being outed? All in all, it's a horrible situation. That's a shame. I don't think people make a choice to be attracted to children. I can't see why any sane person would decide they WANTED something which made them universally reviled and doomed to a life in which normal adult intimacy and the lifelong companionship and love that come with a fully functioning adult relationship are out of reach. I don't think people choose to desire something which logic and society tell them is completely and totally wrong. I don't think people want to live their lives afraid someone will find out their fantasies and form a lynch mob. This might not be a popular view, but I don't think these people are to blame for the way they are wired up. So from that point, if a person is going against their desires in order to do what is morally right, in a world where little or no support exists for them to do that.... why wouldn't I be sympathetic towards them? They are harming no one and are probably in a lot of distress themselves. Now if they act on these desires and abuse? Yes, then they are a bad person, they deserve punishment in accordance with the law. They should also be offered help, because that's the best chance we have of preventing re-offending, but if they refuse help and/or attempt to reoffend, steps should be taken to prevent them from harming anyone else. We don't live in a world of thought-policing. We can't punish and ostracise people who haven't done anything wrong. I can believe in harsh punishments for sex offenders and still acknowledge that some people have a hard lot in life.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 1:11:40 PM)
I call him Daddy all the time, it's second nature. It's become his name. I have to stop and think a moment to actually remember to use his real name, kind of results in some pretty funny almost oh shit moments actually. neither of us would like it very much if I shouted out hey daddy hello kitty look! around his mom. So while we're not sexually active when I am a child I do still call him Daddy for adult conversations on kink sites. And adult conversations in real life, unless I am not supposed to, cause we both prefer I do not do that around his mom. It can be confusing I know. quote: ORIGINAL: EsotericLady Thirdly, although you claim no sex with your Daddy, I recall not long ago a thread you started in which you asked for ideas to turn your Daddy on for "sexy time." I've also read in more than one of your posts some very detailed scenarios of your sex life with your Daddy.

EsotericLady -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 1:11:52 PM)
Oh! I'm just fine with your question, LadyPact! No worries here! : ) I get out just fine thank you! LOL I own 2 vehicles, and a driver's license. I know how and where to attend a munch, and have attended them. I've sat right next to littles, a baby girl, and Daddy Doms at munches, and actually befriended a baby girl and little for a time. I also have an online friend who is an AB and has a Mommy, whom I chat with online as well as over the phone. So yes, I would say that means I have experienced life in a public setting, yes! Ha! quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact This is going to come off wrong but.......... Have you considered that you may need to get out more? What she describes is far more common than the other way around. [/color]

LadyPact -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 1:11:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers In all of my years I had never even heard or read the abbreviation 'dom' for the word dominant. One was either dominant or not. That goes for any literature, film or otherwise. Same for the expression daddy dom and to me, the whole idea does an injustice to couples I have known since before the net existed, enjoying extremely wide differences in age where none of these labels were ever used. Please tell Me that you are not this uneducated and/or not familiar with non fiction forms of kink literature.

Winterapple -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 1:12:53 PM)
FR I'm into pet play. Does that make my partner a beastialist? Must I never leave him alone with the cats lest he molest one of them? I don't think so. Because no matter how deep I am into my feline mindset, no matter if I'm wearing my ears, my tail butt plug, my little collar with my bell that alerts the birdies, have my whiskers painted on and my cat eye lenses in, I am always a human being. There is no by proxy fucking going on. He's fucking me role playing and getting off on getting my kitty groove on. He has no ill designs on animals. It's also only one of the ways I express my sexuality. The OP seems to be confusing several things including pedos and chicken hawks. A pedo is only attracted to those who have not gone through puberty. A pedo cannot not channel his compulsion into an adult. If pedos and rapist could channel their desires into consensual adult surrogates then legalized adult prostitution would be a very effective tool against two of societies great ills. Only it isn't. There are people, male and female, straight and gay who like partners who are barely legal. Most with this preference don't involve themselves with people their age. These relationships can be exploitive, manipulative and pathetic. But so can a host of other human relationships. If the younger partner is legal then it's an adult relationship. No adult even a very young one can be physically a child and unless they are challenged they can't be mentally one either In my experience the Daddy Doms I know aren't age players or if they are there's not a sexual aspect. Most age players and incest players I know of are into a variety of kinks. But even if there is a sexual component to the age play it is still play. Keyword here is play, meaning not real. You know that guy in Austria who locked his daughter up in a dungeon and raped her for years? That guy wasn't playing. Pedos and rapist aren't interested in substitutes or surrogates. They want sugar not Sweet n' Low. Fantasy is fantasy. Play is play. A well adjusted person can have dark desires and explore them with a consensual adult partner to their mutual satisfaction.

Notsweet -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 1:16:30 PM)
quote: I'm into pet play. Does that make my partner a beastialist? No, but the sheep says I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm sorry. I couldn't help it. But it really seems that the OP was looking for someone to help bash Daddy Doms, came with a specific agenda, and regardless of all the pages of dialog, I still find it insulting, and can't take it seriously.

EsotericLady -> RE: Daddy Dom? Pedophile? The difference is....? (2/6/2013 1:17:39 PM)
That's ok HillWilliam....no one could BELIEVE in another thread that I'd never heard the term "snowflake," either. I was told that was absolutely IMPOSSIBLE that I wasn't familiar with it beyond the snow fall version. I'm starting to feel more uniquely special by the minute! HA! Bring it on, homies! Or should that be dudes? LMAO quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Strangely enough, in 30+ years of this I have never seen a DD/bg couple who DID consider themselves father/child. YMMV quote: ORIGINAL: EsotericLady LilSquaw? With all due respect for YOUR Daddy relationship, I'm afraid I must admit that I've never seen a relationship as yours...(see what I quoted you as saying below) before. I've seen it both with baby girls and with littles. R/L. They most surely DID consider themselves father and child. As for screwing, they most certainly did and broadcasted that they did.. as father and daughter. Sorry but...(shrugs)...I haven't seen it any other way.

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